Hanna of Crossgar, Dromara, Down

The only John Hanna farming in Crossgar townland in Griffiths Valuation in 1863 had plot 28 (and a half of plot 29). I don’t know his wife’s name. That farm passed to Joseph Hanna (perhaps his son) in 1871. Joseph was married to Esther Marshall in 1867, and they had 4 children, 2 of which were dead by 1911. Can see 3 of the 4 children in the GRONI indexes: Sarah, William John & William James. Wm John may have been known as David John and he seems to have inherited the farm.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Crossgar/Crossgar__part_/1205164/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Crossgar/Crossgar/213870/

Joseph appears to have died 21.4.1884 aged 51. Esther then replaced him as tenant till it passed her son David John.

Probate abstract:

Hanna David John of Crossgar Dromara county Down farmer died 29 October 1937 at Banbridge District Hospital Administration Belfast 19 November to William Albert Greer civil servant. Effects £147 16s

There’s a few John Hanna deaths registered in Banbridge 1864 – 1871. You might want to go through them to see if any are the Joseph in Crossgar.

5 Hanna farms in Crossgar in 1828

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/down/tithe-applotment-books/dromara-parish.php#.WCG24BR2ug0

PRONI has a will for John Hanna of Crossgar who died around 1762 (probate was granted in 1762). Two references to this: T/1021/6 page 41 and T/777 page 66. The document is not on-line and so you would need to get someone to look it up for you.

Sorting the rest of the Hanna family (and the other families) out sounds like a job for a professional researcher.

Elwyn. Many thanks for your full response. I will explore some of your suggestions further. But one quick thing. Am I interpreting the Griffiths Valuation records incorrectly? In the Griffiths record I looked at it has Lot 28 plus 29 & 30 leased to a John Campbell in 1863. The John Hanna Lots were 56, 57, 68 & 69. I would appreciate your advice. Thank you, David 

David,

Sorry. Must have been tired when I looked at those records. You are quite correct. The only John Hanna entries are 56/57 and 68 plus half 69. In general, my experience is that they should be the same person. Where there was more than one person of the same name on the same townland, the clerks usually used an agnomen (nickname) to distinguish them. For example, if you look at plots 88 & 89 you’ll see “wee” Hugh Magee and “Big” Hugh Magee. So as I say I think that in 1863, 56, 57 & 68 all belong to the same John Hanna.

Looking at the revaluation records, plot 68 changes to Joseph Hanna in 1871. At the same time the records were amended to show it as land only, ie there was no longer a house on it. So Joseph lived somewhere else on the townland, possibly lodging with someone else. In 1885 it changes to Esther. Esther changes to D.J Hanna in 1916. (I am fairly sure DJ is actuslly William John).

Plot 56/57 remained in John Hanna’s name till 1887 when it changed to what looks like Samuel & William Hanna (or perhaps Samuel William. Hard to tell). Then from Samuel to Robert in 1910. Robert changes to Jane in 1929. (That series of records stops in 1929 though there is a continuation of them in PRONI in paper format only in the VAL3 series of records).

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/proni

So matching those 2 households to the 1901 & 1911 censuses, we have Joseph’s widow Esther here:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Crossgar/Crossgar__part_/1205164/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Crossgar/Crossgar/213870/

This is DJ’s probate abstract:

Hanna David John of Crossgar Dromara county Down farmer died 29 October 1937 at Banbridge District Hospital Administration Belfast 19 November to William Albert Greer civil servant. Effects £147 16s.

And this looks to be Samuel and his brother Robert:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Crossgar/Crossgar__part_/1205174/

Samuel died in 1907. This is his probate abstract:

Probate of the Will of Samuel Hanna late of Crossgar Dromara County Down Farmer who died 16 August 1907 granted at Belfast to William Poole Farmer.

By 1911, Robert has married:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Crossgar/Crossgar/213876/

Robert married Jeannie Earls in Saintfield on 19.9.1908. His father was John Hanna, farmer.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1908/10042/5652738.pdf

This John Hanna in 1901 & 1911 is part of the family too:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Crossgar/Crossgar__part_/1205184/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Crossgar/Crossgar/213887/

He married Mary McCartney in Lisburn on 22.9.1893. (2nd marriage for him). His father was John Hanna, farmer.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1893/10605/5863603.pdf

This is his probate abstract:

Hanna Robert of Crossgar county Down farmer died 21 October 1926 Administration Belfast 16 February to Jane Hanna the widow. Effects £573 18s. 9d.

Hope the above helps a bit. Possibly there are still some Hannas farming there today. I see 3 Hannas listed in the current phone book for Dundrum Rd which is where plots 56 & 57 are. http://www.192.com/people/search/

Elwyn

I have done some further research including on Roots Ireland again.

Re the Joseph Hanna you referred to, I have been unable to find any birth information. But given he was 54yrs at his death in 1884 this would imply birth about 1830. If so, he was quite "old" at 37yrs when he married Esther Marshall. I did find the birth details for David John Hanna, born 18 Jun 1870 and Sarah Reid Hanna born 31 Jun 1868, both baptised 2nd Dromara Presbyterian. I also found a birth for Esther in 1837, father William Marshall and mother Mary Jane Hanna, which is interesting. I guess one possibility is Joseph is the John Hanna I'm looking for. He married asJohn in 1854 and the last child of that marriage was born in 1861, so perhaps his first wife died and he then remarried in 1867?

Re Plot 56/57 and it going to Samuel + William (or Samuel William) and then brother Robert. I believe this could be a different family. A John Hanna born about 1820 (father also John Hanna, mother possibly Sarah Shaw) from Crossgar married a Jane Hanna from Gransha in 1845 and they had James 1846, Samuel 1852, William 1854, Robert 1857 and Sarah 1861. The marriage and all of the children's baptisms were in the 1st Dromara Presbyterian.

A third family did emerge from my research. A John Hanna married a Margaret Lyons and they had James Oct 1837, Mary + Samuel (twins) Feb 1841 and William Craig Hanna May 1843, all 1st Dromara Presbyterian. I found this interesting as the death certificate for Agnes has her father as James, although that could have been an error. But if this James was the person who married Jane Mulligan in 1854 he would have been not much more than 16yrs and she two years older. Possible? First child was born 6mths after they married and the second not until three years later, then two more at two year gaps.  

Your thoughts would be very much appreciated.

Thank you

David

Elwyn

A brief update. The family connected to the 1st Dromara Presbyterian that I referred to above had two additional children; twins Jane and John born 1850. This John is the one you identified as part of the family, who married Mary McCartney. His twin Jane could be the Jane you refer to for Plot 56/57 or possibly her sister Sarah Jane.

Roots Ireland also has David John Hanna, born 18 Jan 1870, same dates as for William John so your suspicions were correct.

Otherwise I'm afraid after checking a lot of deaths and wills and other records I don't have any more insights than those shared in the last message.

David

David,

The 1867 marriage certificate for John Hanna and Esther Marshall should tell you whether he had been married before. (Downpatrick Vol 1, page 651). Not sure I can add any other suggestions as to how progress the research.

I assume you have done graveyards in the area? And speaking to living descendants might help, but it’s debatable whether they will have the knowledge of the families in the mid 1800s.