BLACK, Agnes of County Down and NICKLE James of Armagh... searching for Parish and for Ancestors

Sam,

Regarding when James Nickle emigrated, I have no specific knowledge of his family, but if he left because of the potato famine, then 1849 is probably more likely than 1842. Though some potato harvests failed at various times through the 1800s, it was 1846-1849 when blight attached the crop causing most to rot, and the crop failed 3 years in a row. People ended up eating next years seed potatoes and obviously then found themselves in an impossible situation. So famine caused a massive exodus around that time.  Having said that people had been pouring out of Ireland all through the 1800s die to a population explosion, lack of employment and other factors. All the famine did was speed it up.

If the Nickle family left because of the famine then it tells you they were probably agricultural labourers/weavers. Farmers and artisans weren’t so badly affected. (Farmers had a range of other crops to fall back on, especially in the good farmland of Ulster) and artisans could get paid employment. It was the labourer with a small plot of land (eg 3 roods) that suffered the most, and so formed the greatest category of emigrant.

Finding the Black family will be tricky without some idea of where they originated in Co. Down. You don’t say what denomination they were but I’d guess Presbyterian or Church of Ireland. Not all the church records for the 1830s and 1840s have survived and of what does exists, they are not all on-line. You could try sites like rootsireland (subscription) to see if you can find the family there. Be aware that Agnes Black is a fairly common name (I can see 12 of them in Co Down in the 1901 census) and also that Agnes is interchangeable with Ann and Nancy. So you would need to find the siblings records too to be sure you had the right family.

Have a look at the Blacks on Rosdavies site to see if any might be connected:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Erosdavies/

You might also want to read the famine information on that site, as it paints a compelling picture.

The most complete set of church records for Co. Down is in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast. But they are not on-line, so a personal visit is required to view them. And if you don’t know the parish or denomination there’s an awful lot of records to go through.

WILL BE IN ARMAGH and COUNTY DOWN May 14 to 28th.  Seeking information about and possible family contacts with persons in County Down who know anything about an Agnes BLACK and her sibilings (or were they cousins?) Samuel, George, Mary Ann and Eliza Jane.  Parents may have been a Joseph Black and Jane (maiden name unknow.   If you can assist, please contact me by email at saylesworth@shaw.ca

Considerable NEW information about these members of the BLACK family is provided below:   I am also seeking information on AGNES BLACK, from County Down; she was born about 1831 plus or minus 8 years.   Agnes moved to Canada and became the wife of James NICKLE/NICHOL; this couple were my great-great-granparents.  James came from County Armagh, perhaps from the townland of Clady Beg in the Parish of Kilclooney.  We know that Agnes and James  married in 1855 in Ontario Canada.   Agnes reported that she came from County Down.  I have located considerable information on the siblings of Agnes when they were in Canada, as summarized below.  However, I have not been able to locate any definitive information regarding their ancestry in Ireland nor detail as to the Parish or Townland in which they were born.   

Attached is an inconclusive Research Report on Agnes BLACK completed for me in 2016 by the Ulster Historical Foundation.

Following is a summary of my own findings regarding Agnes BLACK and her siblings in Canada:

(A) Following is my transcription of the handwritten marriage certificate of Agnes Black and James Nickle:

``I do hereby certify that on the sixteenth day of April in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and fifty-five James Nickle of the township of Dunfries and Agnes Black of Beverly were married by me Thomas Fawcett a Minister of the Wesleyan Methodist Church in Canada in the presence of George Black and Mary Ann Black which said marriage was solemnized by banns

 Witnyss my hand at St George

 April 16th a.d. 1855

  Thomas Fawcett

  Wesleyan Minister

 Witneyss

 James Black

 Mary ann Black´´

  Transcribed:  April 10, 2005  

  By Samuel William Aylesworth

  Great-great grandson of James & Agnes

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(B) The following obituary for Agnes (Black) Nickle was published in the Thamesville Herald on September 28, 1905:

 "Died, at Winnipeg on Friday, Sept 22, Agnes Nickle, relect of the late James Nickle, aged 74 years.  Deceased had been a resident of Zone for a number of years and only left a short time ago for Winnipeg on a visit to her daughters, Mrs. E.H. Moran and Miss Agnes Nickle.  The remains were brought here on Monday and conveyed to the residence of her sister, Mrs. Hardy, Ann street, from which place the funeral took place on Tuesday.  Services were conducted in St. James Presbyterian church by Rev. J. McInnes.  Internment in Sherman's cemetary."

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(C) Searching for information on the parents and siblings of: Agnes Black, who married James Nickle, and Eliza Jane Black, her sister, who married Abraham Hardy. I located the following:

  (C1) The following notice of the history and death of Eliza Jane (Black) Hardy was published in the Thamesville Herald, Thamesville Ontario on January 19, 1922:

 "The death occured at the family residence, Ann street, this town, on Friday last, January 13, 1922, of Mrs. Eliza Jane Hardy, relict of the late Abraham Hardy, one of the pioneer residents of Thamesville, after an illness of one week, at the advanced age of 75 years.  Mrs. Hardy, whose maiden name was Eliza Jane Black, was born in the country of Down, Ireland, and came to Canada with other members of her family when 13 years old.  The family first settled at St. George [in the county of South Dumfries, Brant County, Ontario] and afterwards in Caradoc township [Middlesex County, Ontario], where she was married to Mr. Hardy in 1869.  After their marriage they took up their residence in Thamesville, where Mrs. Hardy has resided for fifty-three years.  Deceased was a member of St. James Presbyterian church.  The surviving members of the family are three sons and one daughter, viz. Messrs. Robert James, John Wesley and George and Mrs. Chas. McGaffey, all residing in Thamesville.  The funeral, which was largely attended by relatives and friends, took place on Monday afternoon of this week from the family residence, Ann street,  Rev. W. I. McLean conducting services at the home and at the graveside, interment being made in the Mayhew cemetery.  The pallbearers were Messrs. John Howat, John Vance, John Secord, D. J. MacPherson, M. Ruckle and Robert George.  Among those present at the funeral services were friends and relatives from Detroit, Mt. Brydges, Caradoc township, Rodney, Ekfrid and London."

 (C2) Building on this information, we requested that the Brant County Branch of OGS (Ontario Genealogical Society) obtain a copy of the death certificate for Eliza Jane (Black) Hardy, hoping it might indicate the names of her parents.  Instead, the OGS advised as follows:  

 "We have the death registration for Eliza Jane Hardy.  However, it does not help us as 

 the informant at the time of Eliza's death (being her son George Hardy) 

 apparently knew nothing of his family.  The space for "name of father" for Eliza only says "Black" born Ireland.  And the space for "name of mother" for Eliza has a line drawn through  it, indicating no information available.”

 Signed:   Heather Ibbotson, Brant County OGS, Brantford, Ontario

 (C3) Recently we made a request to the Government of Manitoba for the death certificate of Agnes Black, given that Agnes died there in 1905, while on a visit to her daughter’s home.  If new information is obtain about the family’s history, it will be added to the detailed records. 

  Sam Aylesworth  Aug 19, 2005

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 (D) Regarding Mary Ann Black, who witnessed the marriage of Agnes Black and James Nickle, the critical questions are:

 1) Is this Mary Ann Black the same person who married John Powell Davies in 1858 in Paris, the County of Dumfries (see this database for the Davies family)

 We do note that Agnes Black herself  was married at St. George, Ontario, in the Township of Dumfries, in 1858. 

 2) If this is the same Mary Ann, what is her relationship to Agnes Black?  Were they sisters?  Cousins? 

 3) How is Mary Ann related to James Black and George Black, who also witnessed the marriage of Agnes Black & James Nickle?  Are they brothers? Is one her father? Are they cousins?  I do not know. 

 If Mary Ann Black is a sister, then she would also be a sister to Eliza Jane Black. 

 Written by: Sam Aylesworth, March 14, 2007 

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 (E) At this time I am ASSUMING that this George Black is a brother of Agnes Black and Eliza Jane Black.  However, I do not currently have PROOF that this was so.

 What I do know about the person or persons named George Black is:

 a) A George Black is mentioned as a witness to the marriage of Agnes Black and James Nickle in 1855, as noted above (see their entries in this database)

 b) A Mary Ann Black is also mentioned as a witness to the marriage.

 c) The marriage of Agnes and James took place St. George, in the Twp of South Dumfries.

 d) In the 1851 Canadian Census of the Township of South Dumfries a George Black, age 19, and a Maryann Black, age 14, both from Ireland, are living with the Beemer family.  See page 23, lines 6 and 8.  [Two other Irish persons are also staying there:  David Mickle, age 29, and Mary McKundry, age 25.]  The Beemer Family were all born in Canada; they were Mthodists.   The four Irish are listed as Prebyterian (as was Agnes Black and her sister Eliza Jane Black).

 e) In the obituary for Eliza Jane Black it says:   "Mrs. Hardy, whose maiden name was Eliza Jane Black, was born in the country of Down, Ireland, and came to Canada with other members of her family when 13 years old.  The family first settled at St. George [in the county of South Dumfries, Brant County, Ontario] and afterwards in Caradoc township [Middlesex County, Ontario], where she was married to Mr. Hardy in 1869.  After their marriage they took up their residence in Thamesville, where Mrs. Hardy has resided for fifty-three years.  Deceased was a member of St. James Presbyterian church."

 f) A marriage record located for Brant County by the Brantford Office of Ontario Genealogical Society refers to the marriage of a George Black as follows:  George Black, 22, residence South Dumfries, born County Down, Ireland, son of Joseph and Jane [Black], married 22 September 1858 to Mary Ellis, 18, residence South Dumfries, born Dumfries, daugther of William and Hannah [Ellis]."     [This information was passed to me by email from OGS; I do not yet have a copy of this marriage record. SWA]

 g) The family of William and Hannah Ellis are listed in the 1851 Canadian Census of the Township of South Dumfries, page 19, lines 41 - 47.  A Mary Ellis is listed as a daugther, then aged about 12.

 h) A Mr. Jim Cobban from Ontario has been researching the Black family and has obtained the following detailed information about the George Black who married Mary Ann Ellis:

 - George Black was born on June 4, 1833 or 1834 in Ireland (his marriage record indicates in Ireland, in the County of Down)

 - he married Mary Ann Ellis, as noted above

 - the family lived for awhile in South Dumfries and then moved to the Township of Caradoc, in the County of Middlesex [just as Eliza Jane Black did. SWA]

 - George and Mary Ann has eight children, which I have listed in this database.

 - George died May 29th, 1912 on lot 18, conscession 1, Caradoc, Middlesex Ontario (Mr. Cobban has located the death certificate). 

 - As noted on his death certificate, his parents were JOSEPH and JANE BLACK.  [At this time, I do not know if the parents remained in Ireland or came to Canada.]

 - Mary Ann (Ellis) Black was born September 22, 1840 in Dumfries Towship, Ontario, and died August 16th, 1918 in J.R. Veales, Caradoc, Middlesex, Ontario

 So, regarding the George Black who married Mary Ann Ellis, the critical questions are:

 1) Is this George Black the same person who witnessed the marriage of Agnes Black and James Nickle in 1855 in the Township of Dumfries or Beverly?

 We do note that Agnes Black and James Nickle married at St. George, which is in South Dumfries.

 2) Is this George Black the same George Black who is listed in the 1851 Canadian Census for South Dumfries, alongwith Mary Ann Black. 

 3) If there is only one George Black here, what is his relationship to Agnes Black?  Were they brother and sister?  Cousins? 

 4) Similarly, what is the relationshp between George Black and Mary Ann Black?  Where they brother and sister? Cousins? 

 Similarly, regarding the Mary Ann Black who is listed in the Census in the same household as George Black:

 1) Is this Mary Ann the same person who witnessed the marriage of Agnes Black and James Nickle in 1855 in the Township of Dumfries or Beverly?

 We do note that Agnes Black and James Nickle married at St. George, which is in South Dumfires.

 2) If this is the same Mary Ann, what is her relationship to Agnes Black?  Were they sisters?  Cousins? 

 3) Is this Mary Ann Black the Mary Ann Black who married John Powell Davies in Paris, Ontario, in the Township of Dumfries, in 1858?. 

 4) If there is only one Mary Ann Black here, what is her relationship to James Black and George Black, who also witnessed the marriage of Agnes Black & James Nickle?  Are they brothers? Is one her father? Are they cousins?  I do not know. 

 Written by: Sam Aylesworth, March 14, 2007 

(F) On August 8 2008, I located the marriage record for the marriage of Samuel BLACK, widower, to Agnes MENZIES.  This marriage record states that the parents of Samuel BLACK were Joseph BLACK and his wife Jane (maiden name UNKNOWN).  I had previously learned that the parents of George BLACK (who married Mary Ann ELLIS) were Joseph BLACK and his wife Jane.   

 Based on this information, I am now ASSUMING that Samuel BLACK was a brother of George BLACK, and thus a brother of Agnes BLACK, Mary Ann BLACK and Eliza Jane BLACK.   

 This note written by Sam Aylesworth, Aug 8, 2008.

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Thank you for any assistance you  can offer regarding the ancestry and place of birth for my AGNES BLACK who married James NICKLE.

Yours truly,

Sam Aylesworth

Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Email:  saylesworth@shaw.ca