Mathew Shanly

Susan:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

I did a search of Roots Ireland of Shanly/Shanley baptismal records with a father named Mathew hoping to find the 1850 record which did not show up. Do you have a baptismal record? I did find two records in Bornacoola in 1826 and 1829 with a father named Mathew. Roots Ireland by the way has baptismal records for Bornacoola starting 1824. I did not find a Mathew Shanly in 1825 in Bornacoola. Where did you locate the record? 

I did not locate a Mathew Shanly/Mary McGurl marriage record but if they married in Bornacoola, there was a gap between 1837 and May 1850.

Have you considered autosomal DNA testing?

Roger McDonnell

Name:Anne ShanlyDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:02-Mar-1826Address:CloonbonyParish/District:BORNACOOLA ROMAN CATHOLICGender:FemaleCountyCo. Leitrim
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:Matthew ShanlyMother:Mary Reid

Name:Bridget ShanlyDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:20-Jun-1829Address:CloonbonyParish/District:BORNACOOLA ROMAN CATHOLICGender:FemaleCountyCo. Leitrim
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:Matthew ShanlyMother:Mary ReidOccupation:

Just as an aside, Roger, you are incredibly generous with your time and try ot be of assistance to so many of us so on behalf of those of us whom you have helped, thank you kindly.

Took a quick look at the Indexes for the Tithe Aplotments and the Griffith's Valuations and there is a Matthew Shanley in Clooncolry in Mohill (the only Matthew Shanley listed) in both of these databases for Mohill Civil Parish (which included Bornacoola Catholic Parish or at least most of it I believe) -  not sure whether this is the same Matthew associated with the Mohill baptisms you provided as I couldn't find Cloonbony on the map, just references to Cloonbony House. 

I tried various spellings of McGurl but turned up only a single McGurl for Mohill Parish In Griffiths - couldn't find the right spelling to turn up McGurls in the Tithe Aplotments but undoubtedly they are there.

Edward:

Thanks for your very kind comments. I did see the Mathew Shanly in the Tithes and also wondered if he was connected to the father on the baptismal records. The Cloonbony could be the current Cloonboniagh North and South.

Only one McGurl/McGirl in the Tithes for Leitrim--- Bryan McGirl in Ougheragh parish.

Roger

Someone at a Family History Center searched RootsIreland for me and located a baptismal record for Matthew Shanly, bapt 17 Dec, 1825, Parish Bornacoola, address Corrancamp, Father Thomas Shanly and mother Mary Casey. I have not myself learned to use RootsIreland but may do so now. I believe the person helping me found that information somewhat indirectly, but I don't remember the exact process.

My great-grandfather, Thomas Francis Shanly, was probably born in 1850 in Toronto (and baptised John), but if not, then John (born 1850) was likely a younger sibling of Tom's. That latter option seems doubtful since I have looked at virtually all Shanlys in Quebec and Ontario and ruled out all but the one born in 1850 as being Thomas Francis. I have proof from elsewhere (from his aunt, Mary McGuirl) that Tom's father was named Mathew, and Mathew Shanly appears in the Toronto city directories by at least 1849. Mathew was buried at St. Paul's of Toronto in 1854.

Should I be trying for information from some townland other than Mohill? The Tithe Applotment Books list only one Mat Shanly in Clooncolry, Mohill, 1834. When I google Clooncolry, Corrancamp, or Cloonbony, it's not clear to me how these places overlap or change names.

I have tried autosomal DNA and come up with next to nothing so far. I think my ancestors on the Shanly side died young or had few children.

Thanks for replying and let me know if you have further suggestions.

Susan MacDonald

Thanks to both of you; I posted my own reply before seeing your replies.  On the Fenagh townland site I have now explained why I think there were McGirls there--some of whom must have emigrated to Canada and later to the US. The ones who went first to Canada would be of greatest interest to me. 

In the Tithe Applotment Books for Fenagh, I find the spellings Magirl, McGirl, and Magurel. In Kiltoghert another family has its name spelled Mageril. In Canada, I have found immigrants (in the 1840s-1860s) with names spelled McGurl, Mcgirl, McGreal, and then also McGarry, McGrail, McGirr if those are in fact related names (and they may not be). My sense is that because a woman like Ellen McGirl was illiterate, other people were writing her name and choosing how to spell it depending on the thoughts of the person taking records. So in the 1860s, Ellen is designated "Ellen McGurl" but in her obituary (1902) she is said to have been born "Ellen McGuirl"--though even there one obituary named her "Helen" and another "Ellen." The same happened to Patrick McGurl of Kingston, Ontario, around the same time; he became McGuirl after 1850 or 1860.

Thank you for your help a year ago. Since then I have looked at a gazillion baptismal records (via Ancestry and RootsIreland) as well as all the relevant Tithe Applotment and Griffith's records. The only Mathew Shanlys I've found are from the southern part of Leitrim (e.g, Bornacoola). Meanwhile, Kiltoghert, Kiltubbrid, and possibly Fenagh were the only Leitrim parishes that contained Shanlys as well as McGirls and Missets (John McGirl and Elizabeth Misset were the parents of Mary and Ellen McGirl, according to Ellen's marriage record in 1870). However, there are no Mathew Shanlys that I've found in those parishes, and there are no McGirls in Bornacoola so far as I can tell. There are lots of McGarrys and many marriages between a Shanly and a McGarry, but I hesitate to assume that McGarry is the same name as McGirl (and based on what I've seen online, it isn't).

So do you have any advice about how to expand or move my search? I could try more Roscommon records or Sligo. The only Toronto records of Shanlys in the 1840s (assuming there was some chain migration involved) point to a Cornelius Shanly in Longford. 

If people tended to marry relatively close to home, these seem to be problems. However, maybe in the time of the Famine, many of them fled (to Scotland, England, Canada) and then married people who weren't their neighbors from home. I'm still working on the theory, though, that I need to find Shanlys, McGirls, and Missets living near each other.

Any suggestions?

Thank you,

Susan MacDonald

Unfortunately Susan, the period when your Shanleys  were born in County Leitrim is at the beginning of Catholic sacramental record keeping in Ireland. Hence, particularly as you head further west in the country, record keeping and preservation of pre-1850 baptismal and marriage records can be sporadic. Since it appears that you have at least one or two baptismal records from Quebec, you might want to take a look at the godparents’ names, since sponsors were often aunts, uncles, cousins or neighbors from home. You could conceivably see if these folks left a better paper trail than your direct ancestors. Also, Shanleys and McGuirl are well known Leitrim surnames but Misset is a name I am totally unfamiliar with. Hence, unless I am just unfamiliar with it, it might be worth tracing any Missets you come across, particularly with a Leitrim or Quebec association. Lastly, as I’m sure you already know, Civil parishes and Catholic parishes usually do not have identical boundaries, so,the civil parish of Mohill included most of the Catholic parish of Bornacoola as well as the Catholic parish of Mohill. So someone could be a native of the parish of Mohill and likewise be from or not from the Catholic parish of Bornacoola. i’m Not sure of Fenagh, which I believe is both a civil and a Catholic parish with the same name. Good luck in your search.

Should have read Ontario instead of Quebec.

Edward,

Thank you again, and I like your logic about looking at the Missets. If I do an all-Ireland search for Misset baptisms on RootsIreland, I get 187 baptisms (as opposed to 907 McGirls and 2902 Shanlys). It looks like there is some sort of internal-to-Ireland migration involved because all the early Misset baptisms were in Dublin, Offaly, Wicklow, Kildare, and Louth. Mayo shows up in 1810, and then around 1831 Roscommon and Sligo start showing among the Misset baptisms.

In the Tithe Applotments, there are Missetts (John, Thomas) in Deffier, Kiltoghert, and in Griffith's John Jr. and Michael are still in Deffier. I'm still learning to navigate Irish records and haven't found the 1901 census for Deffier, but in 1911 there's a John Missett and a William Missett. John (senior) died in 1864, age 86, and was listed as living at Leitrim Green. Somewhere I think it said he was a physician. One of the younger Johns married Anne Jane Flynn, lived in Diffier and had children from 1874-1886 then married Rose Reynolds after Anne Jane Flynn died.

As to Toronto, I have only the one baptismal record from 1850; the sponsors were Norah Mullowney (who was married to Nicholas Malgamus--various spellings for both) and Michael Gallagher. Mullowney, Malgamus, Gallagher, and Thomas Connors lived at the same address for several years around 1850.

As you will see, I am accumulating lots of information and not getting very far.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Susan MacDonald

From Griffiths 

Mc Girl Anthony Deffier Kiltoghert
Mc Girl Connor Deffier Kiltoghert
Mc Girl John Deffier Kiltoghert
Mc Girl John Drumherriff Kiltoghert
Mc Girl Owen Deffier Kiltoghert
Mc Girl Thomas Deffier Kiltoghert

(Drumherriff borders Deffier so these are all likely inter-related McGirls)

Misset John Deffier Kiltoghert
Misset John, Jr. Deffier Kiltoghert
Misset Michael Deffier Kiltoghert
Misset Thomas Cornaroy Kiltoghert

(Cornaroy borders Deffier so again likely these are all inter-related Missets)

Gallagher Andrew Drumherriff Kiltoghert
Gallagher Andw., Jr. Drumherriff Kiltoghert
Gallagher James Drumherriff Kiltoghert
Gallagher Peter Cornaroy Kiltoghert
Gallagher Peter Deffier Kiltoghert
Gallagher Thomas Drumherriff Kiltoghert
Gallagher William Drumherriff Kiltoghert
Gallagher Wm., Jr. Drumherriff Kiltoghert

(lots of Gallaghers all around Deffier)

Connor James Cornaroy Kiltoghert
Connor James Deffier Kiltoghert
Connor Peter Cornaroy Kiltoghert

(likewise Connors in the area)

Lots of Shanleys in Kiltoghert as well though I didn't note any for the above named townlands but I didn't look to see whether the townlands of any of the Shanleys listed for Kiltoghert bordered any of the above.

Malgamus strikes me as a transcription error. Might be helpful if you were able to take a look at the baptismal entry in the original register. If you google malgamus, you get n0 surname matches.

These would be the nearest Mullowney entries I find (you would have to look at these townlands on the map in Roscommon to see whether they are close to the border with Leitrim. (Most Mullowney entries are for Limerick & Tipperary).

Mullowney Thomas Clogher Upper Kiltullagh Roscommon

Mullowney Martin Aghaderry Tibohine Roscommon

Mullowney Patk. Barnacawley Tibohine Roscommon

Mullowney Mary Clogher Upper Kiltullagh Roscommon

Mullowney James Clogher Upper Kiltullagh Roscommon

Mullowney Michael Liscoffy (Kelly) Athleague Roscommon

Mullowney Patrick Cloonfelliv Kilkeevin Roscommon

Mullowney John Tullylin, or Ballyfeenaun Castleconor Sligo

Mullowney Bernard Listrush Drumrat Sligo

Mullowney James Cloonboniagh South Mohill Leitrim

So in Cloonboniagh there are Mullowneys.

I suspect Corrancamp is Corracramph (North and South), Clonbony is as Roger suggested, Clonboniagh (North and South) and Clooncolry is still the current spelling.

These three townlands seem to range anywhere from just under 3 miles to just under 10 miles from each other, so not very far even for folks from long ago who were used to walking further than we do today.

Deffier would lie the furthest away being about 10 miles from Corracramph, the nearest of the first 3 townlands mentioned above.

Edward and others, Again that you so much. I know how much hard work those replies involve. I don't want to make this thread too long/unmanageable, so I'm going to reply here and also post a new question separately (related but also more generic) about carpenters (the occupation).

Here are my take-aways from Edward's recent comments:

1. There are enough Shanlys, McGirls, etc. in Co. Leitrim, that I should continue to search there (and in bordering areas), undettered by missing records.

2. The only townlands with Shanlys named "Mathew" are in Corrancamp, Clooncolry, and nearby, but I should not assume Mathew couldn't have met and married someone from farther north in Kiltoghert or Kiltubbrid or Fenagh. (This has seemed a major obstacle because I don't find Shanlys named "Mathew" outside that particular part of Mohill/Bornacoola.)

3. I should go back to the Canadian records (again . . . groan). I am trying, but it's hard to pin anything down, and records from Toronto were fairly sketchy in the 1840s. Norah Mullowney's husband, Nicholas Malgamus, is variously spelled "Malkamus," "Mulkmas," "Malcumas," "Malcohume" in nearly indecipherable handwriting. I've looked on RootsIreland, and the names I might guess at (from their surname variation list) are Mulkerin or Malcomson. Possibly "Malgamus" was Scottish and not Irish at all. There quite a few Mullowneys in Toronto; among them was a Mary Mullowney I believe to have been the sister of Norah. This Mary M was married to Bernard Martin (a common name in Roscommon) and died shortly after giving birth in 1845.

Let me know if you see anything else in this pile of vague information, and thanks.

Susan M

Thomas Francis Shanly (though Thomas may have been christened as John Shanly)

Possible but unlikely. If he showed up later as Thomas John that might give credence to such a conclusion.

It seems possible to me that Mathew was in Montreal earlier in the 1840s living with another Shanly family since the 1842 census in Montreal shows a Michael Shanly, carpenter, with 15 people living at his address.

Possible but only just possible - you don't mention how you concluded that. 

You don't mention or I missed as I reread posts roughly how old you think Matthew was or whether you think he was married in Ireland or in Canada. If he married in Canada, the distance between Deffier and Mohill wouldn't even come into play. If he was unmarried or even if he was married, he may not have been the official occupier of property and hence would not show up in the Griffith's Valuations. Likewise,I wouldn't assume that his father's name was Matthew. If his first born son was the John or Thomas you write about, it would be more likely that his father would be John or Thomas. If Matthew was named after his own grandfather and Matthew was born in the 1820s or 1830s, it would be likely that there may not be a paper trail for a grandfather (2 generations earlier). So while I would pay attention to the location of baptismal records for a Matthew Shanley as well as to Matthew's in the Griffith's Valuations and the Tithe Aplotments, you still might need to cast your net more widely.

So in the 1860s, Ellen is designated "Ellen McGurl" but in her obituary (1902) she is said to have been born "Ellen McGuirl"--though even there one obituary named her "Helen" and another "Ellen." 

I"m a little confused here - I thought Matthew Shanley was married to Mary McGuirl - you also mention Thomas having an aunt Mary McGuirl.And so Ellen is a sister to which Mary? 

Again Note that the only Mullowney in County Leitrim in Griffith's Valuations is in Cloonboniagh which is the townland where the baptismal records for the two children of a Matthew Shanley were found.  

Thank you again, Edward. You have looked at a year-old post and a very recent post, and there may be some discrepancy between the two. If I had to guess--and I'm sure guessing is foolish when it comes to genealogy--I'd guess that my Mathew was the child of Thomas Shanly and Mary Casey, born 17 December, 1825 in Corrancamp and possibly the only child of that marriage, since Mary Casey died in January of 1828.

I would guess that he left for Canada by the mid-1840s, but I have so far been unable to find a marriage record for him and can't guess whether he married Mary McGirl in Leitrim, along the way, or in Canada. He was in Toronto by 1848 or 1849, listed in the city directory as a carpenter, and had a child "John" baptised at St. Paul's of Toronto on February 21, 1850. He was buried at St. Paul's at age 36 (supposedly) in January of 1854. If "John" was a younger brother of my great-grandfather (Thomas Francis Shanly), I have no idea what became of him. Possibly Tom was born in Ireland or in some port or somewhere in Canada before the family arrived in Toronto.

Mary McGirl is not heard from again, according to my grandmother (who was born in 1883 and lost her father in 1894--so she may be forgiven for not knowing the entire story). There was some family rumor that Mary McGirl had "run off with a Britisher," though I hesitate to trust that fully. What is really clear, though, is that Mary's sister, Ellen McGirl/McGurrell watched over the young orphan, Thomas Francis Shanly. Ellen got Tom declared a ward of the Bishop of Montreal (so the story goes), and he was then educated by the Christian Brothers. By 1863, however, Tom had decided he didn't want to become a Christian Brother, and Tom and his Aunt Ellen left for the U.S. 

A couple of days ago, I posted another question on the Leitrim board regarding carpenters--and I hope you can find that message. There seems to have been a Thomas Shanly, carpenter, born about 1780, dying in 1879. Could he be the grandfather or father of Mathew (b. 1825)? Too much conjecture, but there seems to be a strong element of carpentry as the family business and of the names Thomas and Mathew occuring together. That's the best I've come up with, and you can see how much conjecture I've indulged in to get to anything that coherent.

I will be interested in your response. Thank you.

Susan M

Hello. I am new and stumbled upon your post as I was searching for my great, great grandfather, Cornelius Shanley/Shanly. I found my great grandmother, Mary Frances Shanley Buchanan on a birth registration for my great uncle, Cornelius, born 12 Jan 1882 in Slattagh More. I believe she was living at the Shanley family home as my great grandfather immigrated to the US (PA) IN 1881 and returned to retrieve his family in 1883 and returned in 1884 to the US. I am curious if the Cornelius Shanly you mention in one of your posts is MY Cornelius?
Sincerely,
Cindy