Thomas & Bridget Mackey Ryan

Elizabeth:

Hello again!

As you likely know, the Cappamore baptismal records start in 1842 and marriage records start in 1843. So finding a baptismal record for Thomas and Bridget is unlikely. The death records may be a different matter if Thomas and or Bridget died 1864 or later and their death was civilly registered. Once the civil death record images for 1864-1890 are place online at www.irishgenealogy.ie you will have a large number of Thomas Ryan and Bridget Ryan death records in  the Limerick registration district to see if you locate one or both of your great-great grandparents.

I see that Thomas and Bridget lived in Turagh at some point which is the same townland for Michael Casey and Honora Ryan at least in 1882.

Have you considered autosomal DNA testing?

Roger McDonnell

Hello Roger,

You are so right about the number of Thomas Ryan and Bridget Ryan records! They are plentiful. In fact, when I looked at the 1851 Census Records I wasn't able to determine which Thomas Ryan could be the right one. Having an autosomal DNA test done is a great idea. Perhaps better yet, I could ask my oldest Casey-Ryan cousin to be tested. 

Do you have any idea about when the images for 1864-1890 will be available online? 

Could you clarify for me the difference between a Townland, Parish, District, and so on? For instance, William P. Casey was born in Turagh townland, which is in the Murroe Registration District, but what is the Parish name? I've been inputting Cappamore each time, but perhaps that is incorrect? 

Appreciatively,

Elizabeth Byrne

Elizabeth:

The civil parish for Turagh is Tuogh.

Tuogh is located in northeast Co. Limerick. Tuogh is a small civil parish and only has eleven townlands including Cappamore town https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappamore.

The RC parish for the area is Cappamore. Generally borders for civil parishes and RC parishes do not match. There are more civil parishes in a county than RC parishes.For example Co. Limerick has 130 civil parishes but only sixty-five RC parishes.

The townland is the smallest civil land designation ranging in size from 100 acres or so to well over 2000 acres. A group of townlands makes a civil parish.

Now for registration purposes, you have Registrars Districts like Murroe and a good number of those make up the Superintendent's Registrars District which in your case would be Limerick. This was a very large SRD covering Limerick town and about twenty civil parishes.

Questions?

Roger 

Roger,

Thank you ever so much for your clarifications! The myriad maps and sources had me quite confused. However, you've managed to help me understand the complicated civil and ecclesiastical boundaries. This will hold me in good stead as I move forward in researching my family. 

How prevalent is the surname Mackey? I'm wondering if there's any way I can find out about my grt-grt-grandmother Bridget Mackey Ryan's family. Any suggestions? 

Most Appreciatively,

Elizabeth

Elizabeth:

Go to this site http://www.swilson.info/sdist.php (don't include variations) and you will see in the mid-19th century that there were a good number of Mackeys as head of households in Kilkenny and Tipperary.

The problem in researching Bridget is the lack of RC records for the area.

Roger

Hello Again Roger,

I just ventured onto the site you recommended and it's fascinating! The number of Mackeys surprised me. Since RC records are in such short supply for the time period, maybe it's worth trying the records for 1841. That would be before she married. The problem I've encountered whenever I look at the 1841/1851 records is that there's no way of distinguishing between the various inhabitants. One response on the Message Board noted that locally Ryan (and, I presume, other) families have a nickname that distinguishes one family from another. How would one find out the nickname? This is probably where, as you mentioned, autosomal DNA would be helpful.   

Ever since Ancestry DNA began providing Genetic Communities, I've been trying to figure out where in Ireland my various family branches arose. I know from whence my Casey and Ryan families came, and also my Walsh and Reilly family (i.e., Balla, Mayo). Those comprise the Munster, Connacht, and North Connacht branches. However I can't figure out why Galway Irish is one of my Genetic Communities. By process of elimination and by proximity to Mayo, which is the birthplace of his wife, my great-grandfather Patrick McGuire may have hailed from Galway. You've already provided me with a number of fantastic sources, so I'm open to any others you could recommend.

Have a blessed day!

Elizabeth   

Elizabeth:

I forgot to answer an earlier question about the availability of death record images from 1864-1890. The honest is answer is that we don't know but hope they show up later this year.

On the family name issue, there is no way to know the nickname info back to the mid-19th century. 

regarding Patrick McGuire and Galway, you really need his parents names fro a death record or obit. At some point you may want to sign-up for a one month subscription to Roots Ireland. Co. Galway parish records generally start late.

You may also want to look into Gedmatch www.gedmatch.com   Gedmatch is a volunteer run site where you can load your raw DNA data from Ancestry and see if you match someone who tested with another company (and also loaded their data to Gedmatch)

Roger

Roger,

You are THE BEST! You have me feeling more hopeful. 

Access to the death records 1864-1890 will be exceedingly helpful. I believe my great-grandfather Michael Casey's record will provide some insights. Who knew I'd ever be anticipating the release of death records! LOL!

Patrick McGuire (or Maguire) died in New Jersey when he was only 38; he was born about 1854. His death certificate gives his parents names as Patrick McGuire (Maguire) and Bridget. His parents' birthplace is listed as Ireland on the death certificate, as well as on the U.S. Federal Census for 1880 and the New Jersey State Census for 1885. Unfortunately, no town or parish or county is mentioned. 

I'd heard of Gedmatch in passing but didn't know what it was. Thanks for the information. 

Elizabeth

Elizabeth:

I checked Roots Ireland for a Patrick Maguire/McGuire baptismal record in Galway with parents Pat and bridget and got no record.

Roger

Just a heads up, Elizabeth. Not sure where you are located though I see you mentioning NJ at one point.

The children of Lawrence Mackey and Elizabeth O'Dea of Cappamore emigrated to Brooklyn, New York in the late 1890s and the early years of the 20th century to be followed by their aged parents a short time later. In addition several of the children of Lawrence's brother, Jeremiah Mackey, also of Cappamore, likewise emigrated to Brooklyn at the same time joining other Cappamore families in the parish of St. Mary Star of the Sea on Court Street including Slatterys, Hanleys. O'Deas, Daverns, Condons, Glasheens, Ryans and others. 

It appears that the apparent brothers, Lawrence and Jeremiah, both resided in Cappamore Town and followed the trade of shoe or bootmaking.

While I am not related by blood to the Mackeys by aunt was married to one of them.

Best,

Ed Stewart

Meant to mention as well that a number of the Mackey descendants of these folks have done autosomal tests on Ancestry.

Hello Edward!

Sorry I am only today reading your reply to one of my postings. Not sure what happened, but thank you ever so much for the information regarding the Mackey family! 

Off the top of my head I recall an O'Dea presiding at the birth of one of my Cappamore family. I'll return to my tree for the details associated with that event, as well as to Ancestry for research into the Mackey family of Brooklyn. Since I too have done testing via Ancestry, I'll go on to see if I can find matches with the Mackey descendants. 

Yours are the kinds of clues that can be truly helpful!

Appreciatively,

Elizabeth 

Just a quick note Elizabeth. I just looked up the 1908 Brooklyn death  record of the Lawrence Mackey, a shoemaker and native of Cappamore. The death record has him born about 1854but the 1901 Census of Ireland has him born in 1848 and I wouldn’ be surprised if he were a  bit older than that. The Jeremiah Mackey, whom I am guessing was his brother was Also a shoemaker in Cappamore and never emigrated. In the index of Irish deaths the only lisiting I found if Limerick is the correct registration district for Cappamore was a Jeremiah died in 1891 but born in 1833. So in terms of chronology not sure whether they would be brothers or nephews to your Thomas.

Anyway, the real reason I wrote was that Lawrence’s parents are named as Patrick Mackey & Catherine O’Gorman on his death certificate in case of interest.

Hello all

On the subject of irish death record images, they are freely available to view from 1878 and not 1890 as some people think, and hopefully will be available from 1864 in the near furure.

Regards

Seán O'Dwyer

Apologies, hadn't realised the earlier posts were from when before the civil records were updated.

Sean