Johanna Sage/ Seage born Griffen

O'Brien:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

Curraghbridge is in Adare civil parish and the RC parish is also Adare. Records for that parish start in 1832 so no baptismal record for Johanna Griffen would be available.

You may want to add Johanna's emigration story to Australia to our XO Chronicles site and possibly someonew will see a connection  https://www.irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/history-and-genealogy/ancestor-database

Roger McDonnell

Attached Files

G’Day O’Brien,

I’m not related but to add to the information that Roger McDonnell kindly provided, I found two landholders named Griffin living in Curraghbridge, Adare Civil Parish, County Limerick, in an Irish property record known as the Tithe Applotment Books. The two named in the Tithe Applotment Books are John Griffin and Mary Griffin. Mary is shown to be a “Widow,” in the record.

These landholders were likely related to your Johanna “Griffen” Sage.

The Tithe Applotment Books are free to search online and are from the National Archives of Ireland website. The search page can be found at: http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/index.jsp

The index for John and Mary Griffin shows that the Tithe Applotments for Curraghbridge took place in 1827. You can view the index at: https://is.gd/5GdNwr

As you’ll see in the index John and Mary Griffin’s names are highlighted in blue. Click on either the first or last name of John or Mary, and you’ll come to a copy of the original Tithe page where they are recorded.

You can also go to: http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004239502/00…

You’ll need to enlarge the Tithe page to see that John is landholder 8, while Mary is landholder 9. They are also listed a second time as landholder 20 and landholder 21.

If you’d like me to break down what the Tithe entries for John and Mary are telling you, please let me know and I’ll send a detailed explanation describing each column you see.

As mentioned above, the widow Mary Griffin and John Griffin were likely related to Johanna Griffin, but there’s no way of knowing what that relationship was just from the Tithe Applotment Book record.

For a very good explanation of what the Tithe Applotment Books are, go to the following National Archives of Ireland links:

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/about.jsp

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/aboutmore.jsp

Next, I found a John Griffin and a John Griffin Jr., leasing property in Curraghbridge, Civil Parish of Adare, in another Irish property tax record known as Griffiths Valuation. Griffiths Valuation was enumerated in the 32 counties of Ireland between 1847 and 1864. The valuation for Curraghbridge, County Limerick, was completed by the year 1850.

Unlike a census, Griffiths Valuation did not enumerate individual members of a family, such as husband, wife, and children in a household residence. Those named in the valuation were individuals who paid to lease property, such as land, houses, and outbuildings. Each person who paid to lease the property was called an “Occupier.” The other person listed in Griffiths Valuation was the person who owned the property, or who worked as the middleman for the owner. This person was called the “Immediate Lessor.”

You can access Griffiths Valuation transcriptions and original copies for free at the askaboutireland website link at:
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

John Griffin is actually recorded three times in Griffiths Valuation in Curraghbridge, as you’ll see coming up. John Griffin Jr. is recorded once in the valuation. They may be father and son.

Below is a transcription of the first Griffiths Valuation entry for John Griffin. The transcription is from the askaboutireland website:

No. and Letters of Reference to Map: 9a
Civil Parish: Adare
Townland: Curraghbridge
Occupier: John Griffin
Immediate Lessor: Phineas Bury (minor)
Description of Tenement: Office and land
Area of Land: 11 Acres, 1 Rood, 0 Perches
Rateable Annual Valuation of Land: 7 Pounds, 2 Shillings, 0 Pence
Rateable Annual Valuation of Buildings: 18 Shillings
Total Annual Valuation of Rateable Property: 8 Pounds, 0 Shillings
____

Griffiths Valuation shows that John Griffin leased an office and land from an Immediate Lessor named Phineas Bury, (minor). The word “minor,” is what is known in a Griffiths Valuation record as an agnomen, or second name, to differentiate one person from another with the same name. In this case it may be that this Phineas Bury was under the age of 21, and the son of a man whose name was also Phineas Bury.

The land that John Griffin leased was over 11 acres and valued at 7 Pounds, and 2 Shillings. The office was valued at 18 Shillings. An office was any type of outbuilding, such as a barn, stable, blacksmith shop, piggery, etc. The total valuation of the office and land was 8 Pounds. John Griffin would have paid a percentage of the value of the property toward the tax. Properties in Griffiths Valuation valued under 5 Pounds however, were not subject to the tax and were the responsibility of the owner of the property.

The map reference number, 9a, at the beginning of the valuation record, refers to the location of John Griffin’s lease on an Ordnance Survey Map from the time period.

Below is the Griffiths Valuation entry for John Griffin, Jr., at map reference number 9b. John Jr., leased a house and a little over an acre of land from Phineas Bury, (minor). The land was valued at 15 Shillings as was the house, for a total valuation of 1 Pound and 10 Shillings. John Jr would not have paid a tax on this property as the property was valued under 5 Pounds:

No. and Letters of Reference to Map: 9b
Civil Parish: Adare
Townland: Curraghbridge
Occupier: John Griffin Jr.
Immediate Lessor: Phineas Bury (minor)
Description of Tenement: House and land
Area of Land: 1 Acres, 0 Roods, 5 Perches
Rateable Annual Valuation of Land: 15 Shillings
Rateable Annual Valuation of Buildings: 15 Shillings
Total Annual Valuation of Rateable Property: 1 Pound, 10 Shillings
____

Next is the second Griffiths Valuation entry for John Griffin in Curraghbridge at map reference 10. John leased land as well as bogland from Phineas Bury (minor). The land and bog were over 4 acres in size and valued at 10 Shillings. The bogland may have been farmed for peat, which was a main source of fuel for farmers in Ireland:

No. and Letters of Reference to Map: 10
Civil Parish: Adare
Townland: Curraghbridge
Occupier: John Griffin
Immediate Lessor: Phineas Bury (minor)
Description of Tenement: Land (including bog)
Area of Land: 4 Acres, 3 Roods, 15 Perches,
Rateable Annual Valuation of Land: 10 Shillings
Rateable Annual Valuation of Buildings: - Shillings
Total Annual Valuation of Rateable Property: 10 Shillings
____

The third time John Griffin is enumerated in Griffiths Valuation is as an Immediate Lessor for a house leased by an Occupier named Michael Hartney. As an Immediate Lessor John was not likely the owner, but acted as an agent for the owner, who may have been Phineas Bury. The house that Michael Hartney leased at map reference 9c was valued at 10 Shillings.

No. and Letters of Reference to Map: 9c
Civil Parish: Adare
Townland: Curraghbridge
Occupier: Michael Hartney
Immediate Lessor: John Griffin
Description of Tenement: House
Area of Land: - Acres, - Roods, - Perches,
Rateable Annual Valuation of Land: -
Rateable Annual Valuation of Buildings: 10 Shillings
Total Annual Valuation of Rateable Property: 10 Shillings
____

You’ll notice in the Griffiths Valuation entries above that of the two Griffin Occupiers only John Griffin Jr. is shown to have leased a house, while John Griffin leased only land, bog, and an office. This could be an indication that John Griffin had lived with John Jr., or that John Griffin had leased a house in a nearby townland. To find out I wanted to see if a John Griffin leased property within a few miles of Curraghbbridge. I found an Occupier by the name of John Griffin did lease a house and land, along with a Henry Griffin, in the townland of Kilknockan. I don’t know however, if this is the same John Griffin who leased property in Curraghbridge, though he may have been. A Google Map shows that Kilknockan is 3.1 miles southwest of Curraghbridge by the shortest modern day route. See the map at: https://is.gd/yrJtjq

For two Google Street Views of Curraghbridge, go to the following links:

https://is.gd/Qtor2o

https://is.gd/TXj03K

For a Google Street View of Kilknockan, go to: https://is.gd/eoYnUT

You can access the Griffiths Valuation entries for John Griffin in Kilknockan at the askaboutireland website.

Concerning the Ordnance Survey Map for Curraghbridge, you can also access the map from the indexes for John Griffin and John Griffin Jr., from askaboutireland. I found the map reference numbers 9 and 10 on the Ordnance Survey Map for Curraghbridge from the askaboutireland website, but I haven’t found a way to link the map or attach the map to this reply. It may be that askaboutireland only wants access to the map available through its website.

But, I did access another Ordnance Survey Map for Curraghbridge from a website called GeoHive, and located the same area on this map where John Griffin, John Griffin Jr., and Michael Hartney leased their property. This map is from the 1837 to 1841 time period, before Griffiths Valuation. You can access the map at: http://bit.ly/2VAxyp4

In the center of the map you’ll see the initials, “osi,” in lower case lettering. osi stands for Ordnance Survey Ireland. To the right of the letter i, you’ll see the images of three little buildings. One of the buildings is set back from the road, while the other two buildings, one of which is tiny, are situated lengthwise along the road. Two of these buildings represent the houses that John Griffin Jr. and Michael Hratney had leased, while the tiny building may be the “office” that John Griffin leased.

To the left of the lower case letter o, in osi on the map, is bogland. This bogland is part of map reference 9. Going even farther left to the red boundary line, you’ll see more bog land. This area along the red boundary line is map reference 10, which is the land and bog that John Griffin had leased.

I found the same area of Curraghbridge on an Ordnance Survey Map from the 1888 to 1913 time period at the GeoHive website, which shows the two houses along the road are joined together. The name of the house on the map is Fernlea Cottage. To the right of the name Fernlea Cottage is a red marker denoting this area is in the townland of Curraghbridge, Adare, County Limerick. Click on the red marker to see this after you access the map at: http://bit.ly/2VzlODp

To view Fernlea Cottage, Curraghbridge in a Google Street View, go to: https://is.gd/JHsEXJ

O’Brien, in your query to the Ireland XO Message Board you had mentioned that Johanna Griffen had married a fellow named Sage or Seage, but didn’t mention his first name. I believe I found out who her husband was, as I uncovered the Catholic Church transcription and copy of their original church marriage record for Johanna Griffin and John Sage. I also found the baptism transcriptions and copies of the original baptism records for five of their children. I don’t know if you have these records or not.

The marriage and baptisms took place in the Civil Parish of Kilcornan. The Catholic Parish situated in Kilcornan, is alternately called Kilcornan and Stonehall. The Kilcornan/Stonehall parish is on the northwest boundary of the parish of Adare. Access the following National Library of Ireland link to see location of the Kilcornan and Adare Catholic parishes: https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0874

The marriage and baptism transcriptions were found at the Find My Past (FMP) website, which is mainly a subscription-based or Pay-As-You-Go website, but does not charge to search Catholic baptisms, marriages, and available church burial transcriptions for all of Ireland for much of the 19th century.

The search engine for the FMP baptism transcriptions can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/jnmqmuv

The search engine for Catholic marriages can be accessed at: http://tinyurl.com/jzylkjy

For Catholic Parish burial transcriptions go to the search engine at: http://tinyurl.com/j9qe5p9

Bear in mind however that not all Catholic Church Parishes in Ireland kept burial records.

In turn, and most importantly, attached to the FMP baptism, marriage, and burial transcriptions are links that will take you to copies of the original parish registers held by the National Library of Ireland in Dublin.

I haven’t included the full marriage or baptism transcriptions in this reply as they are lengthy and are also under copyright. But I have provided links of the transcriptions so that you can see what they look like before accessing copies of the original Catholic marriage record for John, and copies of the original baptism records for their children.

First names in the marriage and baptism records are in Latin.

Joannes Sage and Joanna Griffin were married in the Kilcornan Catholic Parish on 17 October 1830.

Go to the following link to view the FMP marriage transcription for Joannes Sage and Joanna Griffin:
https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=IRE/PRS/MAR/0979151/1

A copy of the original marriage record for Joannes Sage and Joanna Griffin can be found at the following National Library of Ireland link: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634951#page/77/mode/1up

There are two facing pages to the marriage register. You can enlarge the page by means of round icons in the upper center/ right of the screen. The icons are white with green backgrounds. You can also access the full-screen function by clicking on the last icon on the right with the two arrows pointing northeast and southwest.

The marriage for Joannes and Joanna is the 5th entry down from the top of the left-hand page of the register. The first name you’ll see in the marriage record is the name of the parish priest who married the couple. He is the Rev. F. Foley. His name is followed by Joannes Sage and Joanna Griffin. There are also three witnesses to the marriage. The names of these witnesses are difficult to decipher because of the quality of the handwriting. The first witness appears to be Patritius (Patrick) Horrigan or Harrigan. The first name of the second witness is Bartholomew, though I couldn’t make out his last name. The name of the third witness looks like Brigida (Bridget) Fitzgerald.

BAPTISM RECORDS FOR THE FIVE SAGE CHILDREN

The first baptism is for John and Johanna’s daughter Marian. The transcription gives her last name and John’s last name as “Sagr.” This is because the person who transcribed the original baptism record had a difficult time with the handwriting in the register.

Marian was baptized on the Kilcornan Catholic parish on 13 September 1831. Her FMP transcription can be found at:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE/PRS/BAP/4741528

A copy of the original baptism record for Marian from the National Library of Ireland is the 6th entry down the left-hand baptism register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634951#page/49/mode/1up

The names of the godparents are difficult to make out. The godfather could be Thomas Grant. The godmother appears to be Brigid Griffin, who would have been related to Johanna, perhaps her sister. The name of the priest who baptized Marian is hard to discern, but based upon other baptism records in the register, his last name appears to be McDonnell.

The next baptism is for Joanna Sage. The FMP transcription spells the child’s last name as, “San,” and gives the father’s first name as, “Joaquin.” The mother’s first name is Johanna. The FMP baptism transcription for Joanna can be found at: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE/PRS/BAP/5117726

Joanna was baptized in November of 1834. No day of the baptism is recorded. Her baptism is the 2nd entry down from the top of the left-hand baptism register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634952#page/8/mode/1up

Joanna’s godparents are Jacobus (James) Cronin and Maria Griffin. Maria may have been the sister of Johanna Griffin Sage.

In looking at this baptism record the child’s name appears to be spelled, “Joannum,” which might be an indication that this was a son, rather than a daughter. You’ll notice that the mother’s name is spelled “Johanna.” More on this later.

The last name of the priest who baptized Joannum is difficult to make out, but appears to be Donnell.

The third child baptized is Patricius (Patrick) Sage. He was baptized on 24 February 1838. His FMP baptism transcription can be viewed at: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE/PRS/BAP/7037227

A copy of the original baptism record for Patricius from the National Library of Ireland can be accessed at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634952#page/16/mode/1up

His is the first baptism at the top of the left-hand baptism register page. This baptism entry is a lot more legible than the previous two, and shows that the godparents were Joanne (John) Griffin and Margareta Griffin, who would have been related to the mother Johanna. The priest who baptized Patricius was the Rev J. Madigan.

Jacobus (James) Sage was baptized after Patrick. James was baptized on 10 September 1840.

James’s FMP baptism transcription can be viewed at: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE/PRS/BAP/6435817

A copy of his original baptism record from the National Library of Ireland is the 8th entry down from the top of the left-hand baptism register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634952#page/34/mode/1up

The name of his godfather appears to be Thoma (Thomas) Purcel. His godmother is Maria Griffin. The name of the priest who baptized James is not recorded.

The last baptism is for Brigidam (Bridget) Sage. She was baptized on 27 December 1845. Her FMP baptism transcription can be found at: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE/PRS/BAP/7037432

A copy of her original baptism record from the National Library of Ireland is the last entry on the right-hand baptism register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634952#page/57/mode/1up

Her godparents are Dionysius Murphy and Brigida Bridgman.

Bridget was born during the first year (1845) of the Great Famine, which in the Irish language was called, “an
Gorta Mór. For more information about the Great Famine in Ireland, go to the following links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)

https://billygogan.com/an-gorta-mor/

https://is.gd/kb 8jP6

The Stonehall Catholic Church is still in existence. According to the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland website, the former name of the church was, “Stonehall Roman Catholic Chapel,” located in the townland of Blossomhill. The church was constructed in 1828, which means it was only two years old when John Sage and Johanna Griffin were married there in 1830. Today, the church is called Saint John the Baptist Roman Catholic Church. You can read about the architectural details of the church as well as view a photo of the church at the Buildings of Ireland link at: http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=LC&…

To view the location of the church on a Buildings of Ireland map, go to: http://webgis.buildingsofireland.ie/HistoricEnvironment/?REG_NO=21901124

For a Google Map showing the location of the “Kilcorman Church,” see: https://is.gd/D904yw

For a Google Street View of the church go to: https://is.gd/0PRFOf

The following link will take you to a Google Street View of the cemetery just down the road from the Saint John the Baptist Catholic Church: https://is.gd/soVSQq

You can also view an Ordnance Survey Map from the 1837 to 1841 time period of the “Stonehall R.C. Chapel” from the GeoHive website link at: http://bit.ly/2VD2Onq

The Ordnance Survey Map does not show the existence of a cemetery nearby.

Unfortunately, the marriage record for John Sage and Johanna Griffin does not mention where they were living. Likewise the baptism records for their five children, do not mention where the family were living at the time of the baptisms.

Though Curraghbridge is in the Civil Parish of Adare, as well as the Catholic Parish of Adare, it’s feasible that the Sage family were living in Curraghbridge, even though the Stonehall Catholic Chapel was located in the Civil Parish of Kilcornan, and Catholic Parish of Kilcornan/Stonehall. A Google Map shows that Stonehall is 3.6 miles northwest of Curraghbridge: https://is.gd/DTDx1B

To see if I could find a possible location of any landholders named Sage within the Kilcornan Civil Parish, I went back to the Tithe Applotment Books. I found one landholder named Sage leasing property in common with another landholder named Goggins in the townland of Ballynamona, Civil parish of Kilcornan. The first names of Goggins and Sage are not recorded in this undated Tithe record, which you can view at the National Archives of Ireland website link at: https://is.gd/9NQQ4e

Goggins and Sage are the 8th landholders up from the bottom of the Tithe page.

Ballynamona, by the shortest route, is 5.5 miles west of Curraghbridge, according to the Google Map at: https://is.gd/i9TAMe

For Google Street View of Ballynamona, go to: https://is.gd/mPYFvK

You can also see Ballynamona on an Ordnance Survey Map from the 1837 to 1841 time period by going to the GeoHive link at: http://bit.ly/2VzDW06

Only two other people named Sage are recorded in the Tithe Applotment Books provided by the National Archives of Ireland. One is Matthias Sage in the townland of Buncraggy, Civil parish of Clareabby, County Clare, and the other is Patrick Sage in the townland of Lanna, Civil Parish of Clondagad, County Clare.

You can see the Tithe index for Matthias and Patrick Sage in County Clare, as well as the Tithe index for the Sage in Ballynamona at the following link: https://is.gd/lk7RMd

There were no Sage Occupiers in Curraghbridge when I accessed Griffiths Valuation earlier, but I went back to the askaboutireland website to see if I could find any Occupiers name Sage in County Limerick. I only found one, who coincidentally is named John Sage, leasing property in the townland of Knocknagorteeny, Civil Parish of Abington. I don’t believe this is your John Sage, as I suspected he and his family left Ireland for Australia sometime after the birth and baptism of their daughter Bridget in 1845.

This proved to be the case when I found the Sage family is a ship’s passenger list from Ancestry.com’s collection, “New South Wales, Australia, Assisted Immigrant Passenger Lists, 1828-1896.” You may already have the passenger list, but in case you don’t, I have attached it to this reply. The passenger list spans two facing pages. John and Johanna Sage are at the very bottom of the first two pages of the list, reading from left to right.

Their children are recorded on the two following pages.

The Sage family arrived in New South Wales on board the ship, “Sea,” on 29 September 1849. John is shown to be a 48 year old Farm “Labourer.” Johanna is 46 and listed as his “Wife.” Their residence in Ireland is recorded as, “Curragh, Limerick, which I believe pertains to Curraghbridge, rather than to, “The Curragh,” in County Kildare.,” which is horse training and horse breeding country. John and Johanna are also shown to be Roman Catholic, and were able to read.

The second attachment includes the next two facing pages of the passenger list recording the arrival of John and Johanna’s six children. The oldest is 18 year old Eliza Sage, a Farm Servant from Curragh, Limerick. She was Roman Catholic and could read.

Eliza is followed by 15 year old John, a Farm Servant from Curragh, Limerick. He was Roman Catholic and could read and write.

After John is 13 year old Patrick who is listed as a “Son,” from Curragh, Limerick. He was Roman Catholic and could read and write. The three youngest Sage children are 10 year old James, 8 year old Thomas, and 4 year old Bridget. These children could neither read or write.

I also found another passenger list at Ancestry.com. This is called, “List of Immigrants per Ship Sea as inspected by the Immigration Board on 2nd October 1849. “ This Immigration Board list of the Sage family gives additional information not found in the passenger list from September 29. For instance John Sage’s parents are recorded as, “John & Elizabeth both dead.”

Johanna’s parents are “Patrick & Bridget Griffin mother living in Curragh.”

The list goes on to shows that the Sage family had no relations in the colony of New South Wales, that their health was good, and that they didn’t report any complaints on board the ship that needed treatment.

The ship’s passenger list and the Immigration Board list both show that the oldest Sage child is 18 year old Eliza. But if you recall, I didn’t find a baptism record for Eliza or Elizabeth Sage in County Limerick. At 18 years old in 1849, she would have been born circa 1831, which is the year that Marian was baptized. I went back to the FMP website to see if I could find the baptism transcription for an Eliza or Elizabeth Sage between 1830 and 1835 anywhere in County Limerick, but came up empty.

The child after Eliza is 15 year old John. If you recall, I had questioned whether the November 1834 baptism record for Joanna Sage was actually the baptism record for a son, rather than a daughter. At 15 years old in 1849, John would have been born in 1834.

The child recorded after John on the passenger list is 13 year old Patrick. He would have been born circa 1836. I went back to National Library of Ireland website to see if baptisms for the year 1836 were recorded in the Kilcornan/Stonehill Catholic Parish, but found the baptism records for 1836 do not exist, which explains why there is no baptism record for Patrick.

After Patrick is 10 year old James. He was baptized in 1840, which would have made him almost 10 years old in 1849.

The child listed after Patrick is 8 year old Thomas. I didn’t find a baptism record for him either, though as you saw earlier, I did manage to locate the baptism record for his 4 year old sister Bridget, who was baptized on 27 December 1845.

The National Library of Ireland website shows that the Kilcornan Catholic baptisms and marriages commence in 1825, which, like the Adare Catholic registers, would have started much too late to have recorded the baptisms of John Sage and Johanna Griffin, or the marriages of their parents, if their family had lived in the Curraghbridge area in the early 1800s.

I was surprised to see that the passenger and Immigration Board lists shows that John, Johanna, and Eliza could read, while their sons John and Patrick could read and write. This was a time period in Irish history when many Catholics farmers and their families could not read and write. This prompted me to go back to the GeoHive Ordnance Survey Maps for 1837 to 1841 to see if there were any National Schools in Curraghbbridge.

I didn’t find a National School on the 1837 to 1841 Ordnance Survey Map of Curraghbridge. John and Patrick Sage may have learned to read and write from a local teacher, or from a school in Adare, about two miles away from Curraghbridge. Their first exposure to reading however, may have come from the parents, or their sister Eliza, who could all read, according to the ship’s passenger list and the Immigration Board list.

Best Wishes,

Dave Boylan

P.S. For an very informative article called, “Where the Irish Settled in Australia,” by Sylvia Quinnell writing for the Botany Bay Family History Society Irish Interest Group in New South Wales, go to the following link:
https://is.gd/NqRT5R

The article was found at the Ireland XO website. As Roger McDonnell suggested in his reply, you may want to add the story of the family of John and Johanna Griffin Sage and their immigrant experience to the XO Chronicles for others to read, especially for those in Australia searching their Irish roots.

To

Roger McDonnell and Dave Boylan

G'day to you both from Sydney, Australia, and thank you for your replies to my post re Johanna Sage/Seage born Griffen, from Curraghbridge.

I am overwhelmed by your generosity in sending me so much information about my ancestors in Ireland.

Johanna Griffin did indeed marry John Sage in 1830. My records (as handed down to me by my Great Aunt) say that John Sage may have been married twice, and that Johanna was his second wife.I don't have a name for wife no.1 but if true,this might explain why he had an older daughter called Eliza who appears on the passenger lists as travelling to Australia on the "Sea" in 1849 with the family.

I have not had a chance to view all the links you included in your message as yet, Dave, but I am looking forward to exploring all the tips you have suggested.

Coincidentally, I have recently joined the Botany Bay Family History Society and so I will hopefully be able to talk to Sylvia Quinnell personally and gain further help from her as well.

It has been great to "meet" you both online, and again I wish to thank you for the time and effort you have spent looking up my relatives.I am truly grateful

Please keep in touch,and if any of my present day relatives are interested in finding out how the Seage family (note the spelling of the surname changed when they arrived on Oz.) got on in their new home here, I am happy to help out with any and all the information I have at hand.

Kindest regards

Colleen Boyd (O'Brien)

PS. I have many other relatives who travelled from Ireland......but that's another story !!!

 

You're welcome Colleen and many thanks for your kind words from Oz. Please don't hesitate to write back if you have any questions about the Sage and Griffin research. After receiving your communication I looked for a previous marriage for John Sage in County Limerick and surrounding counties, but did not find it. I also looked again for the baptism of his daughter Eliza, but once again without success. Of course, there's always the possibility I missed locating these records. 

Also, If there are any other Irish ancestors of yours that you'd like me to look for, please let me know. In addition to the name of the ancestor, I would need to know their date of birth or approximate date of birth, where they may have been born (county and or parish), and the names of their parents, especially their mother's maiden name. 

Once again, thank you for writing Colleen. It's very much appreciated.

God Bless,

Dave

 

Colleen:

Dave did a fantastic job in researching your family in Co. Limerick. As Dave mentioned, if you have additional questions on the Griffin/Sage family, let him know. If you have questions about a different family from Ireland, post a new and separate message on the message board. Thanks!

Roger

 

I'm exploring a potential link with the John Griffin above and Australia and would like to hear from Colleen.