Michael/Alice English formerly of Cross, Oala, Limerick

Typo, actually formally in Cross, Oola, Limerick.

bjmangan:

Using the free website www.irishgenealogy.ie, I located a marraige cert for Michael English of Cross on 3 Feb 1909, son of James English to Alice Cronin, of Killeneenalive(?), daughter of John Cronin. The marraige was registered in Tipperary so Alice was likely living somewhere near the border of Tipperary and Limerick. Marraiges usally took place in the bride's homeplace. Witnesses to the marraige were Bridget Baggott and William English. 

The children of Alice and Michael: James (1 Feb 1910), Mary (13 Apr 1911), Teresa (26 Jun 1913), Mary (17 Jun 1915), Anthony (1 Aug 1916)

As a younger daughter was also called Mary, I looked for a death cert for the elder one. The first Mary died in Cross on 31 Oct 1911, aged six months. 

Note- I just noticed all births for this couple are also registered in the district of Tipperary but still have the address of Cross, so this must be somewhere near the border. 

www.irishgenealogy.ie is a great place to start looking for more info on the parents and siblings of Michael and Alice now that you know the civil registration district is Tipperary. The birth marraige and death records go back as far as 1864, then you can turn to parish registers, which generally go back to the early 1800s. Parish records can be searched on findmypast in their free records collection. This is worth checking out but has a few record missing that other websites don't, however you can still locate a lot of good information here. The subscription site www.rootsireland.ie has apparently a very complete collection.

Hope some of this helps and if you need any more help or anything else you want to know about the English/Cronin family, just message.

Alicia

Thanks Alicia,  I'm also interested in finding a copy of the cause of death for a Bridget Keaty in 1913 at the age of 19.  According to the 1911 Census, Bridget (17yrs old) was shown to be residing at the home of Michael and Alice English in Limerick/Oala/Cros as a servant, along with their son James English.  Bridget's Parents were a Michael and Catherine Keaty of Limerick/Grean/Brackyle at the time of that same 1911 Census.  At one point I was able to locate a document which described her cause of death and who was present at the time of her death, but I was unable to relocate that document again, where I saw it's description, and would very much like to find the copy of that document again.  I would genuinely love to determine where she was buried as well if at all possible.  I've tried searching graveyards but have not been able to locate a Bridget Keaty.  Do you know if Parish records may have included this document?

You previous responses have been greatly appreciated.

Regards,

bjmangan

bjmangan:

I located Bridgets death certificate on https.//civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie , type in Bridget Keaty in the civil registration district of Tipperary and she is the only one who comes up. I would include the link to the record so you could view it straight away but my computer is glitching all over the place, apologies.

I could not locate her on www.findagrave.com so she probably had an unmarked grave. 

Alicia

Appreciate your assistance immensely.  I have several other questions I’m hopeful you can help me understand. I was interested in finding out where perhaps Bridget was buried, you mentioned that she may have been buried in an unmarked grave, was this common in those parts in 1913 or would this have been unusual for someone who was only 19years old at the time of her passing.  Also, would Cross and Brackyle be roads, townships, or what are they considered for my better understanding?  Trying to understand the distance of those two locations.  I know Bridget’s father Micheal Keaty was from Brackyle and the English’s were from Cross.  Also, I’m assuming in those days servants seemed quite common, is that true, based upon the 1911 census Bridget was present in the English household.  A lot happened in the span of several years in and around that home so I suppose it’s peaked my interest for better understanding, how it was the first Mary passed away and subsequently in 1913 Bridget Keaty’s passing not long after the 3rd birth in the English household.  Thanks again with the help you’ve provided.

bjmangan:

Cross and Brackyle are both townlands. Cross is in the civil parish of Tuoghcluggin and registrar's district of Grean(it most likely appears as "Cross, Oola" on the census because Cross is just outside Oola village. Brackyle is in the civil parish of Oola and registrar's district of Grean. Tuoghcluggin is a tiny parish adjoining Oola. I would estimate the Keaty's lived about fifteen to twenty minutes from the Englishes. 

In those days, many young women became servants to save up a dowry she could give to her husband when she eventually got married. Bridget's mother Kate Keaty nee Fennelly was also a servant before she got married. Going by my family tree, many people couldn't afford marked graves until the 1930s and 40s sometimes even later. As Bridgets father was a labourer, they were likely quite poor. She was probably buried in either Oola Village Cemetery or St Anthonys Cemetery.

The first Mary in the English family died in 1911:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

While I was looking again for the first Mary's death cert, I came across a death cert for the second Mary, who also died young and under horrible circumstances:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

You might already have these but I included them just in case: Bridget's birth cert and her parents marraige cert

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_re…

I hope some of this might help or add some pieces to the puzzle!

Alicia

Hello Mangan Cousin!  Was not sure if this was Brian?  This is Mickey-Jim and Shirley’s daughter.  I’ve been working on the Keaty tree for a number of years and would be glad to share what I have.  Feel free to drop me an email:  mckeaty@gmail.com.  

Hey Mickey,

It's so wonderful to hear from you Cousin, it's been years I know since we've last seen one another...I would love to hear and know what you have.  I have so many questions obviously that have yet been answered and in addition, I'd like to know more and not simply the obvious if possible!  I will definately reach out (no pundt to this site :)).  I really appreciate those here that offer and extend help in locating various documents, there work is so invaluable.  I don't have a lot of information myself but I find it interesting and most certainly would love to see the surviving relatives pass-down our families history a bit more than perhaps they have.  Certainly before it gets lost to them as well.  Thanks for the email.

BM