John and Mary O'Brien (Monteagle Immigrants)

Need to know to which Australian state?

https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/assisted-immigrants-digital-shipping-lists

Has 3 journeys on HOTSPUR, none in 1857.

http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/1857-1858.shtml

Has just 1 HOTSPUR  to Victoria. Ships' manifestos vary: The may state county or origin or just "Ireland".  

Date of Departure 2 July 1857  with 489 "souls"

Date of Arrival 12 October 1857 with 485 "souls" (4 d. at sea)

This data from Appendix No. 9  Victoria

Return of Ships and Emigrants dispatched by Public Funds to Victoria, in 1856, 1857, and up to the 31st March 1858.

I suggest you contact major Lbrary or Vic. Govt. Records of Vic.PRO (sorry, not familiar with Vic) 

The chances of a Manifesto informing the place of prayer is remote.

Alternative is to know: Did they come with children? If so, search the NLI (free online) for the baptism record(s) of child(ren). The last Parish, pre-departure is probably closest for an educated guess.

Monteagle Project, after Lord Monteagle, has many availabe references. However, again the fine detail of place of prayer is remote.

https://www.nla.gov.au/sites/default/files/d7_files/blogs/m_976_lord_monteagle.pdf

TROVE (NLA) can help searching https://trove.nla.gov.au/work/11760073?q&versionId=13848387+50748344

http://home.alphalink.com.au/~datatree/poverty1.htm  Some light may be here:"  

• Danaher Mary 95-6   (on next line)   Danaher Mary see O'Brien and from there
• O'Brien Mary nee Danaher 181, 185, 211
• NB:  "INDEX  Only the index is available.  If you wish to purchase this book you will need to write to Crossing Press, PO Box 1137, Darlinghurst, NSW Australia 2010"

Alternatively, search Parish wedding John O'Brien & Mary Danaher, with approx. date range. Hopefully there won't be too many!  Rule of thumb, RC marriages occurred at the Bride's home church. Only downside, is Danaher may have been from another Irish county.

This book "POVERTY TO PROMISE" By Dr Christopher O'Mahoney and Valerie Thompson appears to answer many genealogists' prayers. So maybe check your local most prominent library.

I just did a check of RC marriages 1847 +/- 10 years for a Mary Danaher & John O'Brien, in all counties with various alternative spelling and found nothing at all.   Best suggestion is access to the "POVERTY TO PROMISE" book.

Hope something here is of use.

"Liz, your contribution added that  "This file should provide all the information you need regarding where the family worshipped: https://shanidhistoricalsociety.wordpress.com/history-of-shanagolden/the..."

Although not the creator of this post, my G-gm was from a Shanagolden family, so I eagerly opened your link with high hopes.

I find reference to "3 churches in Shanagolden", so I guess the originator has a 1 in 3 chance of a correct guess.

I then browsed through the Word Press doc. to find broken links, server issues and deleted/removed sections; as shown below:

"stationroadaskeatoncommunitywordpress.org’s server IP address could not be found"

"tournafullatidytowns.wordpress.com is no longer available."

It's a good idea to check hyperlinks are active and appropriate for the request, before broadcasting.

It might be that the worshippers sought ( John O'Brien and Mary, nee Danaher) resided outside of Shanagolden and prayed locally. 

I would suggest that formal contact with the Diocese / Parish Office for the relevant denomination may achieve useful results.

Hello, my name is Jennifer Jean and I live in Tournafulla, Co.Limerick. Jane has sent me the details of your impending visit and I will certainly arrange for either me or one of my friends from Shanagolden - to meet you when you are in the country. Just by strange coincidence, she is married to a Danaher and she looks after the Shanagolden History & Heritage. If you will provide me with your travel arrangements, then we can decide where and when we should meet up. I am sure that we can make the visit worthwhile for you.

I look forward to hearing from you

Jennifer Jean

Oh my goodness what wonderful responses.  Thank you so much to everyone who has responded.  Jennifer, my sister and I are actually leaving Australia tomorrow.  We arrive in Dublin on Saturday 18th and will head to Limerick on Sunday.  We'll be staying in Limerick City on Sunday and Monday nights (a very very quick stay) before heading to London to meet the rest of our group at midday on Tuesday.  We want to be in Shanagolden on what would have been our grandmothers 100th birthday - the 19th.  John O'Brien was her great grandfather and she was terribly proud of her Irish heritage, as am I.  

We have hired a car so have a reasonable amount of flexibility, should the timing be right for you or your friend.

Once again, thank you so much for the responses.  I'm totally overwhelmed by the information and assistance provided.  

Kindest Regards,

Carly

Hello Carly,

Sadly I did not get your time of arrival or where about that you would be, Did Sean or June manage to find you in Shannagolden I wonder? I will be upset if you did not manage to get any assistance

Please, please let me know if there is any chance that you may get another day in this area...I sincerely hope that wherever you and been or whatever you have been doing, that you have had nothing but pleasant experiences

Do let me know if there is anything else that we can do for you

Jennifer Jean

Hi Jennifer. I’m literally sitting at Shannon Airport waiting to leave for London. I didn’t meet up with anyone but had a lovely visit to Shanagolden. I met a local chap at the pub (The Stand I think it was called) and he gave me a bit of information about the area and helped me locate the cemeteries there. Thanks for getting in touch. I’m sure I’ll return one day. 

Regards,

Carly

Wishing you "All the Best"

Jennifer Jean

Hi Carly. I'm in Australia and also have a Shanagolden/Monteagle immigrant family - the Sheehy family - arriving in Sydney in 1853. I'm wondering if you had success finding the information you were after? The suggested books are terrific, but I also accessed the Catholic records online to find baptism records and marriage records for the Sheehy family. https://registers.nli.ie. There is an index on https://search.findmypast.com/search-world-Records/ireland-roman-cathol… but this is a paid service...so if you know the approximate dates and names, you can trawl through the pages...which is what I did. Sometimes the birth record seems to indicate a specific place "of" - when is says "de Ballycormick" for example (early Catholic records were written in Latin). I also want to make the trek to Shanagolden to see this lovely looking township...although it must have been very different when these early families fled the famine!  Happy to share any broader information I have found. Cheers Leigh

Hi Leigh and Carly,

The best advice given was to search "Poverty to Promise" or alternatively "West Limerick Families Abroad', the latter by Kate Press and Valerie Thompson. Both books contain information about the  O'Brien Family including the townlands, Kilcosgriff/ Kilcosgrave where John was born and Tiermore, Mary's home. "Poverty to Promise" includes transcripts of documents sent on behalf of John O'Brien and further information concerning Hotspur emigrants sponsored by Lord Monteagle, (pp 181-186). Shanagolden appears to be the appropriate parish church for both families but as records there commence in 1824 further details of the parents baptisms are unlikely to be found however you may find records for John and Mary's children which should include the names of their sponsors thus giving clues to other family connections. The Tithe Applotment Books available free from the Irish National Archives site may provide a bit more detail about their circumstances.

The  Sheehy family is also well represented in the indexes of both books. Good luck, Anne.

Thanks Anne. I have seen the "Poverty to Promise" book, which is excellent, but I have not read "West Limerick Families Abroad" so will track that one down. Just a another question - would pre-1824 baptisms have been recorded at another parish church, or were the pre-1824 ones for Shanagolden destroyed or did they never exist?  Just trying to get my head around what could be available. 

Many thanks! Leigh

Hi all. Can anyone decipher the township listed in the attached baptism record for my great grandfather, Patrick Maurice Sheehy? It is from Shanagolden; County of Limerick; Diocese of Limerick. Baptisms, Dec. 1845 to Jan. 1846
https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000634933_032. 

27th December 1845. Patritius ex Mauritio Sheehy et Margerita Cosgrove de ?????? Patrini Daniel? Culhan et Maria? ??

I also can't entirely make out the sponsors. Can anyone with eagle eyes (or local knowledge) help?

Thanks, Leigh

Hi,

My O'Briens were from Shanagolden (Cornelius O'Brien married Elizabeth McMahon).    In 1996 I contacted the Limerick Regional Archives for information and were advised the age limit for emigration on the Lord Monteagle scheme was cut off at 45 years.    By the records the Limerick Archives found my O'Brien family had several children other than the ones who arrived in Sydney on the 'Blundell' in 1853. "Church Records for Shanagolden only date back to 1824 so it is possible your Anne was not the first child born to Cornelius and Elizabeth".    The older children had to be left behind and Cornelius and Elizabeth changed the dates of their birth and the childrens.  Elizabeth nee McMahon died from child birth as the ship arrived in port.    Attached is an early photograph of Shanagolden.  The Square is the same as when we were there in 1994 but the stonework around the cross had gone.    My O'Brien family moved from the parish of Shanagolden to the parish of Loughill where several children were christened but as the records from there only start in 1851 we are unsure how many others were born in Loughill.

Trust you enjoyed Ireland, Pam

Hi Leigh,

It is a tough one but I think I have solved it. My first thought was that the witnesses were Daniel Culhane and Maria (Mary) McGreal. Maurice and Margaret Sheehy were living, I suggest, in the townland of Briscagh in Kilmoylan civil parish. When I checked the Griffiths Valuation Maurice was still listed there (the survey was probably completed before their departure) and his landlord was Patrick McGreal.

All the best, Anne

Gosh! Thanks for the information Anne. Very helpful. I could not make the location out at all - and was trying to use maps to help me. Appreciate it that you've verified this via Griffiths Valuation. I haven't been able to use this at all, because I wasn't sure where exactly Maurice lived. Fantastic help. Thanks again. Leigh