Bridget Hughes b. feb 1867,1869

I'm certain I've looked into this query before on another forums, but dont remember if you had Bridget's place of birth back then...Allowing for an inaccuracy in Brigt's age/year of birth there are five Bridget Hughes births listed between 1864 and 1872 in Dundalk district, in 1864, 1865, 1868, 1869 and one in 1872. If the details regarding place of birth on that immigration record are accurate then I'd say those certs are the ones to start with..

see : Bridget Hughes births, 1864 to 1872, Dundalk district  (FamilySearch, BMD Index Ireland)

The extracted birth collection include some, but not all birth records for this timeframe and cross-referencing the results from these using the page reference and the parents names you gave seems to  eliminate all of these  e.g. :

1864 page 847 parents are Francis Hughes and Catherine Quigly (Barrosntown sub-district)
1865 page 790 parents are George Hughes and Catharine Doran
1868 page 871 parents John Hughes and Anne Quinn (listed under Co. Louth in extracted records)
1869 page 881 parents are John Hughes and Ann Grey
1872 page 864 parents are Peter Hughes and Ann Sorahan

Widening the search area shows one reasonably promising record which showed up initially in searches of extracted records and is a birth of a Bridget Hughes born to a Patrick Hughes and Catherine Clarke in 1864. The sub-district in Castlebellingham, which is in Ardee civil registration district, but this is just south of, and adjacent to Dundalk district. Definitely one to follow up... 

see Bridget Hughes, extracted civil birth, and BMD Index Record

You are correct.  I believe that you assisted me in the past and yes, I have secured additional information on Bridget.  I don't believe that the one record (given in your response) Bridget Hughes with mother Catherine Clarke in 1864 is correct.  Bridget's USA Petition for Naturalization states that she was born 2/10/1869 in Dundalk, Ireland.  She admits to being 73 yrs at this time.  I believe that she may have stated the truth on that document because it is consistent with the age given in the 1891 Census when she and her husband, Richard Lutterell, were living in England on Dove Street.  On the naturalization document she states that she came under the name of Bridget Ellen Lutterell and that she arrived from Lliverpool, England on August 1901 on the Rheinland.

Bridget was known to have played with her date of birth on other documents but in 1891 she was young enough and married so giving her true age probably was not a problem.

Since you replied in the past, I also learned that Richard Lutterell, her husband, died in Dublin, Ireland 14th of January, 1901.  I believed that they lived in 2 Brunswich Villas at that time.

When they were married Bridget lived  at 11 Motsworth Street.  We have been told that Bridget was sent to live with an aunt in Dublin because she gave her father reason for concern.  Her aunt was suppose to have had a business.  Would there be a city directory for 30 January 1887 that would give additional information about the inhabitants of 11 Motsworth Street?

Thank you so much for assisting me, I truly appreciate your time and expertise!

Judy Link Salvatore

The address came up before, I'd say it's actually Molesworth St. in south Dublin city. The marriage was actually in January 1887 and the closet listing I have is Thom's 1885 directory, which shows the following business for that address  :

Alex J. Thompson, tailor

and in 1891 as the businesses/heads of household as :

Miss Lizzie Franklin
Edward A. Monseratt esq.
Church of Ireland Clergy widows and orphans society

No. 11 is on the north side of the street and close to the junction with South Frederick street.

do you have the name of the aunt, or know what type of business she ran ?

I have located your past messages to me, it was via Ancestry message board January 26, 2014. 

The story of living with the Aunt came down through the family orally.  We understood, for some reason, that the aunt was single and that her name may have been Ellen, which is the middle name of my great grandmother, Bridget Ellen.  The information may not be all that reliable...I have no idea, if the aunt story is for real, nor do I know in what business that she may have been involved. The address is correct, though, it is listed on marriage record.

Thank you for searching.  I don't recognize any of the names listed on Molesworth.

replying here re the post on Johanna Luttrel, as it's easier to keep track of the details for this family in a single thread..

The baptism address is for Johanna's family is 2 Brunswick Villas ..which is mentioned as a place of death for Richard. Do you have his death cert, there's a Byrne family living at the north side Brunswick villas on the 1901 census. ?

Brunswick villas is located off the north circular road, but this is in Dublin north city, and on the wrong side of the city for St. Andrews RC (Westland Row) on the south side, so maybe there's a second Brunswick villas neared to St. Andrews...

It seems likely that this Johanna died very young as there's death for that name,  a child under 1 year listed in Dublin South in the first quarter of 1900.

Yes, I do have the death record for Richard.  It is dated 14th of January, for Richard Luttrell, Male, Married, 30 years (could be 36), profession is Marble (I can't make the other word out, he died of TB according to my husband who is a physician, wife is listed as Bridget Luttrell.  The residence is listed as Bruniswick Villa.  District is listed as No 4 in the Union of South Dublin in the County of Dublin. The copy is poor.

My copy does not have the # for Brunswick.  I do find another listing for 2 Brunswick Villa under Edward Lutterell, parents same.  It is fron the same registry as the baby girl, Johanna.  Year: January 1894.  The registry doesn't state that it belongs to St. Andrews.

found the other Brunswick villas on the south side here, and the occupants of no 2 are a Fleming family, and with them is a Bridget Lutterell. This Bridget states she is age 20 (born c1881) not married or a widow, and gives her place of birth of Co. Cork  ?

I haven't located exactly where this Brunswick villas is located, but in it's under Dublin South for civil registrations, and the building returns  show it's in St. Mark's civil parish, which would be covered by St. Andrews RC parish. The location would fit with somewhere near to Great Brunswick St., now called Pearse St.

EDIT - found Brunswick villas south on the c1890 OSI map, see here  It's to the west of Shaw Street, which runs north from Great Brunswick Str/Pearse St.

I had already viewed this information.  It is curious that Bridget is listed as much younger woman, but she did that on her first USA naturalization form, too. she was born somewhere between 1867 and 1869, as best as I can determine.  It is also interesting that she says that she is neither married or widowed, that she has no children and that she is from Ct. Cork.  I think that I remember that the other persons listed there were also from Ct. Cork; maybe this was her inspiration?  I don't think that this is another Bridget Lutterell; I believe that this the infamous Bridget, my ggrandmother!  She left Ireland via Liverpool on the Rheinland in August of 1901 according to her USA naturalization form.  I have yet to locate her on the manifest. 

The four members of the Fleming family are listed as born Dublin city, and the visitor, Eliza Ryan is shown as listed as born Co. Cork. Bridget appears to be shown as a Friend of the family .. I'm guessing that maybe the Flemings took over the address after Richard died and there was some arrangement to allow Bridget to stay on. You would think she should have been reasonably well known to the family, and the head of household Michael, who filled in the census form. All the family and Bridget state they can read & write, so that doesn't appear to be a issue here.

I'd always be a little cautious about years and ages etc recorded for people, and definitely in this case as there's and approx 14 year difference between the age given for this census return vs c1868 year of birth on US records, but just a only a three or four year difference between that and the Co. Louth 1864 birth, so dont think I'd rule that out as at least a possible match for her

Is there an annual record for addresses? Bridget left Ireland around August of 1901 according to her naturalization application. She married a Frank Shields in the USA in 1902. I would love to know if the Bridget reported in the 1901 Census for 2 Brunswick Villa left that address the next year. I suspect that Bridget on the 1902 Census is my relative. On her first naturalization application she gave the wrong age by 14 years. She corrected it a few years later on her second and approved naturalization application. She was probably a woman in hard straights, single without apparent security. I could see where she would try to make herself more appealing for a possible second marriage.
I fear that Bridget, her originating family and place of origin may never be solved.

The next census after 1901 was in 1911. Street and trade Directories, which are usually published yearly, can sometimes be used to help with locations, but these only show head of households, or people with trades or businesses, so very unlikely that Bridget, listed as a house maid, would be included. In any case this Brunswick villas south is such a small side street that details for ii are not listed in Thom's.

There are some voters lists online for Dublin city, these go back to 1908 at the moment. These lists show just name & address of eligible voters., so might not include Bridget as she was not the principle householder in 1901

I'd be pretty certain that's the same Bridget shown in 1901 that married Richard Luttrell, the address and parish/district etc matches the location given on the children's baptisms - very unlikely that another Bridget Luttrel popped up at exactly the same house, just over a year after the birth of your Bridget's youngest child, and just three months after the death of her husband at the same address ...

Thank you for all of your help.

no problem..

I remember we had difficulty locating a possible death for Richard before, but that cert you obtained was a great breakthrough, confirms a definite link to your Luttrell/Hughes family, particularly with the address etc

Good luck with your research..

Is there any way that I could secure information on the orphanage in Dundalk? I was given an email, perhaps via you, to ask for information. I emailed a few times and never received a reply. If I could locate those records, I may be able to get information on Bridget's family. I know that she gives Cork as her county in the 2 Brunswick Villa census but the Dundalk information on her naturalization form makes more sense. If she lived in Dublin why else would she place her children in an orphanage in Dundalk? The children were John b. 1887 Ireland, Alice b. 1890-England, Mary Margaret b. 1897 Ireland. The children would have probably been placed there after Richard's death in Jan. 1901 until they left Ireland in Dec 1906.
I do intend to make a donation to the site, I really appreciate all of your help. I have another relative Patrick McLaughlin who had a brother Bernard and several others (7) in Ireland. They came to USA together prior 1890 because they feared that their father Michael was not happy with them. Something to do with boot-legging? The mother's name was Alice Walsh according to my great grandfather's death certificate. Family oral history says that he came from the Donegal area. My relatives-ugh!

Is there any way that I could secure information on the orphanage in Dundalk? I was given an email, perhaps via you, to ask for information. I emailed a few times and never received a reply. If I could locate those records, I may be able to get information on Bridget's family. I know that she gives Cork as her county in the 2 Brunswick Villa census but the Dundalk information on her naturalization form makes more sense. If she lived in Dublin why else would she place her children in an orphanage in Dundalk? The children were John b. 1887 Ireland, Alice b. 1890-England, Mary Margaret b. 1897 Ireland. The children would have probably been placed there after Richard's death in Jan. 1901 until they left Ireland in Dec 1906.
I do intend to make a donation to the site, I really appreciate all of your help. I have another relative Patrick McLaughlin who had a brother Bernard and several others (7) in Ireland. They came to USA together prior 1890 because they feared that their father Michael was not happy with them. Something to do with boot-legging? The mother's name was Alice Walsh according to my great grandfather's death certificate. Family oral history says that he came from the Donegal area. My relatives-ugh!

Many of the orphanages were run by religious orders and there's often little or no documentation still available, there may not even have been much recorded in the first place. Adoption was informal as there was no official process at the time, so no official paperwork was required to be kept. As far as I know few records back this far for the children in Orphanages still exist and people can find it difficult to locate or access records of children born or sent to orphanages as recently as the 1950s.

If you know the name of the Orphanage then you could try to establish if detailed admission records exist, If these do, and access is allowed, they may be held by an archive - e.g. National Archives of a Library in Co. County Louth

Thanks Shane!

It might be helpful to contact the Louth County Council Archivist who may be able to direct your research:

http://www.louthcoco.ie/en/Services/Archives/

Best wishes
Clare Doyle
Genealogy Support

Perhaps three years too late.

I believe Bridget Luttrell was living with my Great Grandfather, Micheal Fleming at Brunwick Villa's in 1901. The Flemings were a wealthy protestant family (or so we were told) and my grandfather was disowned a decade later as he married a Catholic girl (My great grandmother). I recall the family wealth may have come from Horses (or some type) as when my GF was experienced around them a great deal (He became a cab driver I recall).  If I find anything else I can pass this on

Better late than never, Thank you for your information on your Fleming family. Could you give me more info on your ggrandmother?  There may be a family connection to Bridget.

Judy