O'Neill (County Mayo) / Crowley (County Cork)

Erin:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

I searched on Roots Ireland but was unable to locate a baptismal record for Charles O'Neill inm Mayo in the ealy part of the 19th century. Bohola RC records do not start until 1857 and Swinford records start in the early 1840s except for 1822-1826. I think it will be very difficult to determine the parents of Charles and Peter.

I looked at Kilmocomoge parish records. The Tithe listings from the 1820s showed one Stowers record in Cappanaloha townland. Possibly Sarah Stowers was from that townland. I found Crowley records in the Tithes for Kilmocomoge but no Jeremiah. The 1852 Griffiths Valuation head of household listing does show two Jeremiah Crowley records. Possibly one of the records was for you ancestor.

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625683/00…

http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/cork/kilmocomoge.htm

Have you considered autosomal DNA testing?

What month are you headed to Ireland?

Roger McDonnell

Roger McD

Thank you for this information! 

We will arrive in Cork on the 9th of July.

I’m not familiar with “autosomal” DNA. But, I have done the AncestryDNA test and 23&Me. Through the AncestryDNA test I was able to connect with a living relative on the O’Neill side who lives in Canada (the great grandson of Charles) and he was able to give me some really great information but his info starts with Charles; no info before. I went to visit him last summer and was able to see where Charles settled after leaving Ireland; it was a really great experience and I’d love to be able to supply him with more information if I can find it. 

On the Crowley side I have contacts living in Cork who are my father’s second cousins, I pla on reaching out to them shortly (my father knows them and last saw them in the 1990’s) so I have strong contacts on the Crowley side; the O’Neill side is more of a mystery.

Thank you again! 

Erin Crowley

Hi Erin!

The Ancestry test is an autosomal test. You may want to add either your Ancestry or 23 and Me data to Gedmatch www.gedmatch.com  Gedmatch is a volunteer run site where you can upload your raw DNA dta and see if you match anyone who tested with another company e.g Family Tree DNA (and also loaded their data to Gedmatch).

Have a great trip.

Roger

Thank you for the tip, I just uploaded my data to the site. Looking foward to the results.

Thanks again!

Erin

Concerning your Bohola relatives, I have numerous ancestors from Bohola and the neighboring parishes of Killedan, Swinford and Kilcolman (plus the nearby parish of Killasser), though no known O'Neill ancestors (that is more of an Ulster surname than a Connacht one).  Still, once you have your GEDMATCH listing, you might want to run your kit against mine to see whether we match.   My kit number is T780556 (Kevin Jewell).

Also, the online parish records in Swinford actually begin in 1808 for marriages and 1822 for baptisms (with a gap from 1827-1841).  The church in Swinford was built decades earlier than those in most of the surrounding parishes, so people whio lived in nearby parishes were sometimes baptized or married there, including some ancesotors of mine who actually lived in Bohola.  So, you may want to search for O'Neill records in Swinford.   I also have a detailed family tree at the GEDMATCH site, so if you find records going further back, we might be able to spot a connection.

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the info!  This gedmatch site is not very user friendly for a newbie :)  BUT, I think I got it figured out and I doesn't look like we're a match and I don't see anyone in your tree with common last names.  You can take a look too and let me know if I missed something (or if I don't have the site figured out).  My kit number is A428897 (7205952).  

I took a look back at my records and I do have listed that Charles was born in Swinford but unfortnately born in 1816; before the baptism records.  He was the baby of the family so all of his brothers and sisters would have also been born before record collection.  

Thanks for the help!
Erin

Hi, Erin!  It can take a while to get used to the structure of the options at GEDMATCH.  I compared our kits as well, and we do share some DNA.  If one lowers the 7 cM minimum threshhold for matching to 3 cM, this is the result:

Comparing Kit A428897 (Erin N Crowley) and T780556 (Kevin Jewell)
Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 500 SNPs
Mismatch-bunching Limit = 250 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 3.0 cM

Chr Start Location End Location  Centimorgans (cM) SNPs

1      145,294,180    150,803,779   3.5                            727

5      17,965,365      24,536,402     5.3                            1,091

7      9,029,355        12,147,093     4.7                            994

14    72,352,571      75,438,297     3.3                            677

Largest segment = 5.3 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 16.8 cM
4 matching segments

Shorter segments like that are generally considered not to be very useful for finding a connection within the last 200 years, which is what I already suspected, but we're definitely connected further back.  I have four pretty close Mayo cousins (from my Gallagher/King/Curraby branch) who are also on GEDMATCH and we've compared our various DNA matches (which are much larger than what I share with you, since they're all in the second cousin range), and the segments which you and I share on chromosomes 1, 7, and 14 are all ones which I share with them (within larger segments which I share with them).   The Curraby's lived in Bohola and the Gallagher's lived on the border between Killedan and Bohola, so our connection presumably lies there somewhere (or among McNicholas, Mulderig, or other relatives in the same area).  So, although we're unlikely to find the exact connection, howdy (distant) cousin!

I'm adding another message to say that when I first responded above I was completely forgetting that I had been in touch recently with someone else from the O'Neill family in Mayo to whom I also appear to be distanlty related.  He lives in Ireland and is appparently the head of an O'Neill family genealogy program there which covers the O'Neill's in Mayo.  I've sent him a link to this thread and also the basic info which you provided above about your O''Neill's, so you may hear from him.  His O'Neill's are from the townland of Cloonlara, which is just to the northeast of the town of Swinford.  Here's a link to more info about Cloonlara:

https://www.townlands.ie/mayo/gallen/kilconduff/swineford/cloonlara/

Dear Erin,

Kevin above gave me a link to your blog. I am the O'Neill that Kevin is talking about above. If you send me an email at sean@oneill.ie, I will send you a copy of our family tree from Cloonlara with links to Bohola and Newcastle. This work was performed by my Dad many years ago. He also did a genealogy of the main branches of the O'Neill's but it does have a list of all O'Neill's mentioned in various Church and Tax documents from around Ireland in one spot - this was prior to the internet.

Concerning DNA, I am the administrator of the O'Neill DNA project on familytreedna.com. This is by far the largest O'Neill DNA project and it would be worth getting your O'Neill male relative to perform a 67 Y Marker test on FTDNA. It is more than likely that your O'Neill's are O'Neill's of the Fews who come from Armagh in the south of Ulster. They lost their land circA 1650 when Cromwell drove them out. They are a sub branch of the Tyrone O'Neill's and would be considered to be part of the Royal Branch of the Clan.

Here is a link to the O'Neill project.

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/oneill/activity-feed

I hope this helps,

Regards,

Sean O'Neill

Thank you guys - this is all really great information!!  

Sean, I'll email you right now.  

I do have two male relatives on this side that have taken the Ancestry test (my father and the O'Neill living in Canada who I connected with last summer).  I already tried to download my dad's raw data from Ancestry but am having trouble...I have access to his Ancestry account which sends him an email comfirming the download with another link; I have my dad forward me the email and the link doesn't work for me (which is the exact process I followed with I downloaded my data).  Suppose the problem probably lies in that I'm not clicking the link prior to the foward process.  The next time I am with him I will try to figure it out.  

Thanks again!

Erin

Hi Erin: I am in Ireland annually (next this Sept.). I know many of the Crowleys /Keohanes fron Banrty and have reaearch on same. We held a crowley gathering there for 3 days in 2016.

What is your connection there? Ditto with Cork Cityy Crowleys.

Slån, Tom Crowley, An Taoiseach, Crowley Clan, 2001 -2004 

Hi Tom,

My great grandfather on my father's side, Richard Crowley, was born in 1888 on their family farm somewhere in the Bantry / Cork area of Ireland.  Their farm was named Tranamaderee.  I believe that Richard's parents, Jeremiah Stowers Crowley and Jane (Richardson) as well as his grandparents Jeremiah Crowley and Sarah (Stowers), are all buried in Bantry Abbey Cemetary.  My father visted the cemetary years ago.  He also has two living second or third cousins (decendents of one of Richard's brother's), Aideen and Fergal who both live near Cork.  My dad last visted with them in the late 1990's.  I've reached out to both of them, hoping to make a connection when we visit this coming summer.  

Any names sound familar to you?  

Thanks!

Erin

Erin: Sorry the delay  in replying. I am aware of many of the Crowleys and Keohanes from Banty. They are the same family and I may have a contact in ireland that may help you. Let me know via e-mail (tcrow95798@aol.com) if I can name pass on.

Tom Crowley

Hi Erin,

I am descended from Mary Crowley, who married Denis Shea (in Ireland)/O'Shea (in America.) They lived in the Townland of Ardnaturrish More, Bantry, County Cork, Ireland. The Parrish is Kilmocomoge. They had several children in that area, before leaving for Rutland, Vermont in America about 1872. I don't know much about my Mary Crowley's origins in Ireland. 

But, I would like to recommend a place for you to stay. It is Dromcloc House, owned by Dympna and Johnny Crowley. They are a delightful couple and Johnny has done extensive genealogy on the Crowleys. If you're lucky, he will serve you fresh scones and live according tunes (played by him,) in the kitchen like he did when my daughter and I, visited. He showed us his genealogy and made a connection to our Crowleys.

This is a must-visit B & B, for any Crowley descendents. I highly recommend it. We found it by accident (or was it?) when we visited Bantry. Contact Johnny and let him know in advance that you're coming. He will likely make plans. With no notice, he made arrangements to take us to the Crowley Castle ruins!

It's been about 10 years since we went. But, Johnny and Dympna gave us the trip of a lifetime!

Have a wonderful trip!

Susan

www.dromclochouse.com

Hi again Erin: I have done some research on the Crowleys/Keohanes in Bantry over ythe years. I have known Johnny Crowley and Dympna for over 20 years. He and I are very distant cousins per DNA. Recent years I have started reseach on the Keohanes, which is a branch name of the Crowleys. A number of themCrowleys and Keohanes in the Banty area are 4th cousins per DNA. A few of them are even closer related than Johnny. A woman I know in Ireland is very up to date on the Keohanes. I contacted her and she is looking forward to hearing from you. Linda Keohane -mail: lindakeohaneartist@eircom.net  Keep in mind that the Crowleys and Keohanes are one family! Send her your info and see what she can do to help. E-

mail me if I can help further.

Slån, Tom

Hi Tom,

That was my post you replied to a while back, about Johnny and Dympna. Not Erin's. I did write to Linda, in the hope that she can help with my research. May I ask which DNA site you and Johnny used?

Thanks, Sumac

Hi Susan - I should have responded earlier with my update, I am so sorry! I took your advice and was able to squeeze one night at Johnny and Dympna’s into our trip and thank you SO much for the recommendation as it was the absolute highlight of our trip! Johnny was able to determine our relationship (Johnny is my great grandfather Richard’s 2nd cousin, Johnny’s grandfather and Richard’s grandfather were brothers).  Actually - it was really great as I was able to contact Dympna ahead of time and told her we were meeting my grandfather Bob’s first cousins while in Cork. She knew both of them (one she hadn’t seen in some time, Aideen, and Fergal who comes down from time to time to visit with Johnny). Aideen actually decided to stay with us at Johnny and Dympna’s that one night and we all had a great visit, it was wonderful! Thank you thank you thank you for the great tip!!

I’m not sure if Johnny has done any DNA tests, but I’ve done both Ancestry and 23andMe. Let me know if you’d like my username so we can compare ours.

While I’m writing - I wonder if I could ask if you or any of the women in your family have ever experienced a phyllodes breast tumor? I was diagnosed late last year and they are very rare (0.3-0.5% of all breast tumors) and there is VERY little information or research on the topic. I just wonder if there is a genetic link (I haven’t been able to find anyone I know who has had it - just a small Facebook support group). My doctors and the internet don’t have any good answers as to what causes them. They’re very unusual as they are cancers of the connective breast tissue rather than of the lymphatic system. 

Hope all is well, thanks for reading!

Erin