Ellen Baskerville (1841) and Patrick Ryan family

Dear Deborah:  

Thank you for your post to the Ireland Reaching Out message board.  If you would consider creating an Ancestor profile for this family, that would be very helpful for your research.  The profiles can be created through the XO Chronicles tab at the top of the page.  These profiles are widely read by all our members, are updated weekly and very often, others are researching the same families.  

If you have any difficulties, please let me know.  The very best of luck with your research!  

Kind regards,  

Jane

Hello Deborah,

I found the church marriage record for Benjamin Baskerville and Mary Corbett. I also found the baptism records for three of their children. The marriage record and the baptism records are copies of the originals from the Youghal Arra, Tipperary North church parish registers. If you do not have these I can send them to you in a follow-up reply.

Kind Regards,

Dave Boylan

Hi David,

Thank you for your reply. I do have the marriage and baptism records for the family from rootsireland.ie Are these the copies you are referring to or are yours more detailed? I am trying to find out what happened to the people. I find out they married and had children and then I don't know what happened to them all.

With warm regards,

Deborah

Hi Jane,

I will look into posting a profile.

Thank you,

Deborah

Attached Files

Hi Deborah,

Rootsireland.ie is a good pay as you go and subscription service which in the past I have used many times. I haven't used the site recently as I found alternatives to paying for Catholic records, though rootsireland is the place I would go if I were looking for Church of Ireland baptism, marriage, or burial records. Your records from rootsireland.ie are transcriptions from the originals. The records I have are digitized copies of the original birth records which I obtained online for free. I can't say whether your records from irishgenelaogy.ie are more detailed as I haven't seen the transcriptions you have. Just to give you one example of what I have, attached to this reply is a copy of the original birth record for Mary Ryan. The original birth record is held by the General Register Office (GRO) in Roscommon Town, County Roscommon.

The birth record shows that Mary was born in Portroe, Castletown, Tipperary, on 2 January 1868. Her father is Patrick Ryan, who is employed as a "Farmer." His residence is Portroe. Mary's mother is Ellen Ryan, formerly Baskerville. Patrick Ryan, the father, reported the birth to the local registrar, whose name is difficult to read, but may be Richard L. Roe. The registrar recorded Mary's birth on 17 February 1868. There are several birth records on the register page. Mary's birth is on Line 119.

I also have the 1870 birth record for William Ryan and the 1874 birth record for Bridget Ryan, and even a few more records.

In addition I have copies of original Catholic baptism records from a different source that I can send you as links, rather than as attachments. Again, these are copies of the original baptisms, not transcriptions, and were obtained online for free. .

I can send you all these copies of the original records if you'd like them Deborah.

Thank you for writing and for your quick response.

Kind Regards,

Dave

Hi Dave,

I would like those copies of the originals. I have used irishgenealogy website which is the GRO website as well. And sometimes I have looked at the original church records online. I have a link for the RC Parish records. I find it hard to go through all the months of the year to try to find someone but I do find it interesting to read those original baptism and marriage records. Sometimes rootireland.ie will have a link to the microfilm. And Ancestry sometimes has them too. It seems like the Ryan name comes up several times in association with Baskerville and Barry. My great-grandmother was Rachel Baskerville. I recently found out she had first been married to Patrick Hogan. One of her daughters married a Ryan, a John Ryan and had several children. It makes we wonder if all these Ryans are related to the same family of Ryans. ( But there are so many Ryans in Tipperary I am not sure). Rachel's daughter Catherine (Kate) Hogan(1854) married John Ryan 28 May 1882. They had 7 children, John (1883), Mary(1884), Honora(1885), William(1887), Patrick(1889), Denis(1890), and Michael(1892). Makes we wonder if this John Ryan could be descended from Patrick Ryan who married Ellen Baskerville. If I try to find marriages and births after this it is very difficult because there are pages of Ryans. Maybe if I look through the Catholic Parish records for the parishes like Portroe or Youghalarra I will have better luck. 

Thank you, Dave

Hi Deborah,

Thank you for responding so quickly. I'll start working on compiling the records I've found and see if I can locate any more records in the process. Hopefully, I'll have completed the research by the end of this weekend, but if for some reason I don't, I'll send as much as I can sometime next week. I like to place the records within the context of a narrative form to give as much information about them as possible.

Concerning your great grandmother Rachel Baskerville--were her parents Richard Baskerville and Mary Morris? Also, who was Rachel's second husband?

Thank you again,

Dave

Hi Dave,

My Rachel Baskerville's parents were Benjamin Baskerville (abt.1800) and Mary Corbett. Her second husband was Patrick Barry. I found Richard Baskerville and Mary Morris in my research too and I thought he could be a brother of Benjamin Baskerville because he named a daughter Rachel. Benjamin Baskerville's father was Benjamin and his mother Rachel. I have been adding Baskervilles to my tree sometimes based on names of their children. Many of them named a daughter Rachel and I am thinking they were sons of Benjamin Baskerville (abt.1775) and Rachel ( surname unknown). Everytime I see the name Rachel Baskerville I think there is a connection to Benjamin Baskerville (1775) and Rachel. 

I did find baptism records on Rootsireland for many of the children of Benjamin Baskerville and Rachel. They were in Castletownarra Parish. Benjamin Baskerville (1800) converted to RC and his children were baptised in Youghalarra Parish. Ellen Baskerville (1803) ,his sister, married John Armitage and had several children. I found the baptism records (Youghalarra Parish) for the Armitage children. Then they drop off the radar. Except I think I traced their son Benjamin Armitage to England. The other Baskerville siblings: Hugh Baskerville (1806),Elizabeth Baskerville(1809) married Michael Hogan, Mary Baskerville (1811) married David Minogue, and there was Andrew Baskerville(1814), Matthew Baskerville (1816), Robert Baskerville (1816) married Matilda Kingley?. I added George Baskerville (abt.1808) married Mary McDonnell because he named his first daughter Rachel, his children all baptised in Youghalarra Parish, and I added Richard Baskerville (1801)married to Mary Morris, children Maria, Rachel, James, and Eliza. I could be wrong about Richard and George being children of Benjamin (1775) and Rachel. But all the Baskerville siblings pretty much disappear. I found mention of Hugh suing George for wages in the early 1800s. George emigrated to Canada and there is a lot of information about him and his descendants. Several of the children of Benjamin Baskerville and Mary Corbett are missing too. I found quite a lot information about their son James Baskerville married to Margaret Hannon. Their daughter Rachel Baskerville drowned with Honora Barry (my great aunt) and Mary Jane Hannon in that boating accident on Lough Derg. I know that James and his wife and daughter Rachel are buried in Tipperary.

Thanks for whatever you find. I have read a few times that the Baskervilles either left Tipperary or married and the name is gone in Tipperary. So I started looking for their descendants. I felt I wanted to know what happened to them.

Attached Files

You’re welcome Deborah, and thank you for sending more detailed information about the Baskervilles. It was a coincidence that you had mentioned that Rachel Baskerville had died in Lough Derg, as I found Rachel’s civil registration death record at the irishgenealogy.ie website, when I was looking for Baskerville deaths yesterday afternoon. I didn’t know if this Rachel was related to you or not, but knew she was too young to have been your great grandmother, Rachel Baskerville, as the rachel Baskerville in the death record died in 1885 at age 20. I just now went back and accessed Rachel’s death record from irishgenealogy.ie and have attached it to this reply. The death records states she died in "Lough Derg on Shannon” on August 15, 1885 and that she was a spinster (not married), and 20 years old when she died. The death record also notes she was a farmer’s daughter, and that the cause of death was, “Drowned Accidentally.” Her death was reported to the registrar for the Nenagh Registration District by John Cormack, coroner for Thurles. The registrar, John Keogh, recorded Rachel’s death on August 18, 1885. As you’ll see in the death register, there are three others who also drowned accidentally. The death records show that two of these people were named Honora Barry, one who was 18 years old and one who was 20 years old. Both were farmer’s daughters. I wonder if the coroner for Thurles, John Cormack, got confused and instead of naming one of the drowning victims as Mary Jane Hannon, named two drowning victims Honora Barry. Very strange. The other drowning victim was a 26 year old blacksmith named John Seymour, who was a bachelor. I did a separate search for the death record of Mary Jane Hannon in 1885, but didn’t find it at the irishgenealogy.ie website.

I also found Rachel Baskerville’s birth record, showing that she was born in Pallas beg, Youghall, on 18 April 1867. Her father is James Baskerville, a farmer residing in Pallas beg. Rachel’s mother is Margaret Baskerville, formerly Hannon. The father, James Baskerville reported Rachel’s birth to the local registrar, Robert L. Roe, who recorded the birth in the Nenagh Registration District on 29 April 1867. Rachel’s birth record is also attached to this reply.

You had mentioned that Rachel's parents were James Baskerville and Margaret Hannon, as so I know this was the correct birth record.

As far as the Ryan and Baskerville family goes, I’ve already compiled the birth and baptism records for Patrick Ryan and Ellen Baskerville Ryan’s children. I also found the church marriage record for Patrick Ryan and Ellen Baskerville. I’m in the process now of seeing what additional records I can uncover. You may have some or all of these records, but it’s always good to have another person find records too, so that you can make comparisons between the records you found and the records I uncovered.

I’ll write back as soon as I have more information.

Best Wishes Deborah,

Dave

Hi Dave,

Thank you for looking into the records. Yes I do know from my research and family records that the Rachel Baskerville who drowned was the niece of my great-grandmother, also named Rachel Baskerville. The young Rachel was the daughter of James Baskerville and Margaret Hannon as you have found. James Baskerville was the brother of my great-grandmother Rachel Baskerville. They both are children of Benjamin Baskerville and Mary Corbett. I have surmized, and in the family records it does say, that the 3 girls were cousins, Rachel Baskerville, Honora Barry(my great aunt), and Mary Jane Hannon( niece of Margaret Hannon?) I acutally enquired with GRO about the two records for Honora Barry in the drowning and they could not clear it up on their end. I think it was a mistake. If you read the newspaper articles of the time that report on this incident you will see the names of the girls and there is only one Honora. Honora Barry, the girl who died in this accident, was my grandfather's sister. The young woman Rachel Baskerville (1867-1885) was my first cousin 2x removed. There is a Civil death record for Mary Jane Hannan, 18 yrs.old, farmer's daughter, death 15 Aug 1885, accidentally drowned, Lough Derg. John Cormack Coroner of Thurles on rootireland.ie  I don't know why GRO does not have it but maybe someone copied the record wrong and there are 2 Honora Barrys instead.

Attached Files

Hi Deborah,

Many thanks for all the information about the deaths of Rachel Baskerville, Mary Jane Hannon and Honora Barry. RootsIreland may have gotten the death record for Mary Jane Hannon from amendments and late registrations in the death GRO death registers. I don’t believe that irishgenealogy.ie has death records compiled from amendments and late registrations in the GRO books.

Will it be possible for you to send the rootsireland death transcription for Mary Jane Barry as an attachment in a follow-up reply?

On another related matter, I found an entry for Rachel Baskerville in Ireland’s Calendar of Wills and Administrations, 1858-1920. This wills and administration record is dated for the year 1892, 7 years after Rachel had drowned in Lough Derg. The record shows that Rachel’s estate went to her sister, Johanna Marshall, wife of Patrick Marshall. I’ve attached the record to this reply.

I’m still working on the Baskerville genealogy and thus far have complied 7 to 8 pages of material which I’ll send as soon as I can.

Again, thank you for writing Deborah.

Dave

Attached Files

Hi Dave,

Thank you for doing so much research. You sound like me with the research bug. I really get into hunting for information, trying to get answers. I did come across that will and wondered about it, that would it be unusal for a young person to have a will but don't know. It makes sense more when you mentioned her sister. Rachel Baskerville, my great-grandmother had not died until 1895 so it wasn't her will.

 

Hello Deborah,

Thank you for sending Mary Jane Hannon's death record transcription. It is perplexing why irishgenealogy.ie does not have the death record available online. Maybe they just haven't added it to the online collection yet, as this website is still a work in progress.

Will write back soon. Thank you again Deborah.

Dave

Hi Dave,

You are welcome.

 

 

Attached Files

Hello Deborah,

Before getting to the records I found, I’d like to explain how I initially arrived at locating the church baptism and marriage records for your Baskerville and Ryan families.

I use the Find My Past (FMP) website for this purpose. FMP is mainly a subscription-based, or pay-as-you-go website, but this company does not require a subscription, or pay-as-you go option for Catholic baptisms, marriages, and available church burial transcriptions for all of Ireland for much of the 19th century. Most Catholic Church registers in the 19th century do not have burial records however.

FMP allows you to first locate indexes of Catholic Church baptisms, marriages, and available burials, which in turn are linked to transcriptions of the baptisms, marriages, and burials. The transcriptions are then linked to digitized copies of the original parish registers held by the National Library of Ireland (NLI). By using Find My Past, you do not have to go through the NLI parish registers for a particular Catholic parish in Ireland, to uncover baptism or marriage records of ancestors.

The search engine for the FMP baptism transcriptions can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/jnmqmuv

The search engine for Catholic marriages can be accessed at: http://tinyurl.com/jzylkjy

For Catholic Parish burial transcriptions go to the search engine at: http://tinyurl.com/j9qe5p9

As mentioned earlier though, not all Catholic Church Parishes in the 32 counties of Ireland kept burial records for much of the 19th century..

To complete the search for transcriptions you’ll have to register with FMP. Registration is free as is access to the transcriptions and to the digitized copies of the originals held by the NLI..

In this reply I’ve forgone submitting the FMP baptism and marriage indexes and transcriptions, as they are under copyright and take up a lot of room anyway, but have gone straight to the NLI links that will take you to copies of the original records for the Baskerivilles and Ryans found at the NLI website.

RACHEL BASKERVILLE AND FAMILY

After you had sent additional information concerning your great grandmother Rachel Baskerville, I put aside the Ryan/ Baskerville research I had been working on and undertook to find Rachel’s baptism at the Find My Past and National Library of Ireland websites. Your information shows that Rachel’s father was Benjamin Baskerville and that her mother was Mary Corbett.

I had the devil of a challenge finding Rachel’s baptism index and transcription at the Find My Past website, but it was well worth the research. I only found her baptism after tweaking, in a manner of speaking, variations for the name Baskerville in the FMP baptism search engine. She was baptized on 11 September 1829 in the Youghal Arra Catholic Church, County Tipperary North. This Catholic Parish is alternatively known as Burgess & Youghal. One of the problems with uncovering the baptism was that Rachel’s name in the index and transcription at Find My Past is spelled, “Archery Bachewile,” daughter of Benjamin Bachewile and “Gary” Corbet. It actually took several attempts to find this baptism, which is linked to the Youghal Arra Catholic registers at the National Library of Ireland.

I can see why the person who transcribed Rachel’s baptism, transcribed it the way they did, as the parish register where it is found is difficult to decipher, but not impossible. Rachel’s baptism record from the National Library of Ireland website is the last entry at the bottom of the left-hand baptism register page at:
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634644#page/12/mode/1up

You can enlarge the page by means of round icons in the upper center/ right of the screen. The icons are white with green backgrounds. You can also access the full-screen function by clicking on the last icon on the right with the two arrows pointing northeast and southwest.

This is my transcription of the original baptism record for Rachel Baskerville:

vile
11th/11th Rachel of Benjamin Baskervile John Basker
Mary Corbet & Eliza Do *The Do. here means ditto. That is, Eliza’s last
____ name is also Baskervile.

Rachel’s baptism record also includes the day of her birth, 11 September, the same day she was baptized. The first number 11 in the record you see is the date of birth, followed by the date of baptism. This is good news as the Youghal Arra baptism register also acts as a birth register, and precedes civil registration of births in Ireland by 35 years.

It took a few seconds after reading this baptism entry to realize that the names of the parents are not on the same line, but one above the other, as are the names of the godparents, John and Eliza Baskerville. Many of the Catholic Parish registers use the abbreviation Sp, to note the names of the godparents. Sp stands for, “Sponsors.” The abbreviation Sp for sponsors however, is not used in Rachel’s baptism record.

As far as I can determine, and based on the indexes and transcriptions at the FMP website, Rachel is the oldest child of Benjamin Baskerville and Mary Corbett. I located the baptisms of five more of Benjamin and Mary’s children. I may have missed locating some of the children however. The names and years of birth for the children are below. I’ve also included Rachel in the list to show the full chronology of the Baskerville baptisms that I found at FMP and the NLI websites:

Rachel Baskerville, 1829
Benjamin Baskerville, 1833
Jno (John) Baskerville, 1835
James Baskerville, 1839
Ellen Baskerville, 1841
Thomas Baskerville, 1843
____

The FMP index and transcription for the 1833 baptism of Benjamin, spells his last name as “Baskervil.” In addition John’s last name is spelled, “Barkervile,” while James’s last name is spelled the common way, “Baskerville.” Ellen’s last name is spelled, “Baskervill.” Thomas’s last name in the index and transcription is spelled Backwell.

Benjamin Baskerville born on 26 April 1833 and was baptized in the Youghal Arra Catholic Church on 28 April 1833. His baptism record is the 5th entry up from the bottom of the right-hand baptism register page at:
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634644#page/39/mode/1up

Benjamin’s parents are Benjamin Baskervil and Mary Corbet. The sponsors, or godparents are Jas. Corbet and Cathn Gleeson.

Directly below the entry for Benjamin you’ll see the birth and baptism record for Wm Baskerville, who was born on April 30, 1833 and baptized on May 2, 1833. His parents are Wm Baskerville and Bridt Brien. The godparents are Matthew Baskerville and Mary Baskerville.

Benjamin and William, Matthew and Mary Baskerville may have been brothers and sister or cousins.

Next, Jno (John) Baskerville. He was born on 13 October 1835 and baptized on 18 October 1835. His father is Ben Baskervile. His mother is Mary Corbet. The godparents are Thos. Corbet and Mary Corbet. John’s baptism is the 10th entry down the left-hand register page at:
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634644#page/57/mode/1up

James was born on 20 March 1839 and baptized on 23 March 1839. His father is Benjamin Baskerville and his mother Mary Corbet. The godparents are Thos. Corbet and Rachel Baskerville. I wonder if Rachel was Benjamin’s sister. James’s birth and baptism are the 3rd entry down the right-hand baptism register page at:
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634644#page/78/mode/1up

Next is Ellen Baskerville. Ellen was born on 20 September 1841 and baptized on 21 September 1841. Her parents are Benjamin Baskerville and Mary Corbet. The baptism register page where her birth and baptism are recorded is very faded, and I had to enlarge the page to the maximum to determine who the godparents were. They appear to be Andrew and Rachel Baskerville, but I could be wrong about Andrew’s last name as his last name extends into the fold of the page. Ellen’s birth and baptism is the 6th entry down from the top of the left-hand baptism register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634644#page/95/mode/1up

Thomas is the last Baskerville child whose birth and baptism I located. I couldn’t make out the date of his birth in the baptism register but his date of baptism appears to be 22 November 1843. His father is Ben Baskerville. His mother’s first name is Mary, but her last name appears to be spelled Corben, not Corbet. The godparents are James Corben and Bridget Corben. This register entry can be difficult to read, and is the very last entry on the left-hand register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634644#page/110/mode/1up

The next searches involved looking for Benjamin Baskerville in two Irish land records. The earliest of these land records is called the Tithe Applotment Books. The Tithe Applotments were enumerated in rural, that is farming communities, in all 32 counties of Ireland between 1823 and 1837. For a comprehensive overview of what the Tithe Applotment Books entail, go to the following National Archives of Ireland links:

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/about.jsp

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/aboutmore.jsp

To search the Tithe Applotment Books go to the National Archives of Ireland link at:
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/index.jsp

You can also browse the Tithe Applotment Books by placename, that is, county and civil parish. See the following National Archives of Ireland links:

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/howto.jsp

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/pagestab/

In the Tithe Applotment Books I found one entry for two leaseholders named John Corbett and one entry for Ben “Baskeville,” residing in the townland of Pallisbeg, Civil Parish of Youghalarra, County Tipperary. This townland is also spelled, “Pallasbeg.” The Tithe record for them is for the year 1824. You can view the index for John Corbett, Ben Barkerville, and other occupiers in Pallisbeg at: https://is.gd/lGbrXR

The names in the index are highlighted in blue. If you click on their names you’ll be taken to a copy of the original Tithe Applotment Book entries for them. John Corbet and Ben “Baskeville” are both on the same very faded left-hand page which you can access at the following National Archives of Ireland website link:
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625730/00…

After you enlarge the image, you’ll see the first entry on the left-hand page is for John Corbett. The second entry below him is for John Corbett Junior, which implies the first listed John Corbet is the father. The first entry shows John Corbett leased 22 acres, 0 perches, and 10 roods of land from Robert Ashworth, Esquire, who was likely the owner of the farmland in Pallisbeg. The land value per acre is 32 Shillings. The total value of the land is 35 Pounds and 6 Shillings. The tithes charged per acre are 2 Shillings, 9 Pence. The tithes paid per annum, or yearly, are 3 Pounds, 8 Pence.

The entry for John Corbett Junior, shows he is leasing 19 acres, 2 Roods, and 22 Perches of land. The tithe value of the land per acre is 30 Shillings. The total value of the land is 29 Pounds, 9 Shillings, and 1½ pence. The tithes charged per acre are 2 Shillings and 6 15/16 Pence. The tithes charged per annum are 2 Pounds, 10 Shillings and 7 ½ Pence.

Below John Corbett Jr. is the Tithe Applotment Book entry for Ben Baskeville. He leased 3 acres and 20 ½ perches of land from Robert Ashworth, Esquire. The value per acre of land was 48 Shillings. The total value of the land was 7 Pounds, 7 Shillings, 2 Pence. The total tithe charged per acre was 4 Shillings, 1½ pence. The tithes charged per annum were 12 Shillings, 10 3/4 Pence.

The entries for the two John Corbetts and for Ben Baskerville are on the left-hand tithe page. If you go to the right-hand tithe page you’ll the tithe enumerations for William Baskerville and James Baskerville in the townland of Ballyrusluon, Civil Parish of Youghalarra.

For more information about land measurements known as Roods and Perches, go to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rood_(unit)

The Corbetts and Baskervilles in the Tithe Applotment Books could not have been pleased with this system of tithing, as the money they were charged went to support the Church of Ireland, and not their church, which was the Catholic Church. The Church of Ireland, also known as the Anglican Church, was the Established Church at the time. It was the Established Church in Ireland from 1537 to 1870.

For a Google Map of Pallasbeg, County Tipperary, go to: https://is.gd/AOkNJ4

On the map you’ll see the Catholic Church, which is called the Church of the Holy Spirit. For a Google Street View of the church, go to: https://is.gd/P0HZKu

I couldn’t find when the church was built, but discovered there was an “R.C. Chapel” on basically the same location by consulting an Ordnance Survey Map in color from the 1837 to 1842 time period. This map was found at the GeoHive website, and can be viewed at the following link: http://bit.ly/2RsNTei

You can also view the location of the church on another map in black and white from the 1888 to 1913 time period at the GeoHive link at: http://bit.ly/2RmBDvU

The second land record where I found Ben Baskerville, as well as members of the Corbett family, was in Griffiths Valuation. Griffiths Valuation was enumerated in the 32 counties of Ireland between 1847 and 1864. The valuation for Tipperary North, was completed by the year 1848.

Unlike a census, Griffiths Valuation did not enumerate individual members of a family, such as husband, wife, and children in a household residence. Those named in the valuation were individuals who leased property. Each person who paid to lease the property was called an “Occupier.” The other person listed in Griffiths Valuation was the person who owned the property, or who worked as the middleman for the owner. This person was called the “Immediate Lessor.”

You can access Griffiths Valuation transcriptions and original copies for free at the askaboutireland website search engine link at: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

I found Ben Baskerville in Griffiths Valuation still living in Pallasbeg. Also in Pallasbeg in Griffiths Valuation were three listings for John Corbett, and two listing for James Corbett. I believe the three listings for John Corbett refer to the same individual, and also believe the two listings for James Corbett refer to the same individual.

Below is the Griffiths Valuation transcription from askaboutireland for Ben Baskerville in Pallasbeg, Civil Parish of Youghalarra, County Tipperary:

No. and Letters of Reference to Map: 7a
Civil Parish: Youghalarra
Townland: Pallasbeg
Occupier: Ben. Baskerville
Immediate Lessor: Fred. Ashworth, Esq.
Description of Tenement: House, offices, and land
Area of Land: 6 Acres, 3 Roods, 18 Perches
Rateable Annual Valuation of Land: 6 Pounds, 7 Shillings
Rateable Annual Valuation of Buildings: 3 Pounds, 2 Shillings
Total Annual Valuation of Rateable Property: 9 Pounds, 9 Shillings
____

Griffiths Valuation shows that Ben Baskerville leased a house, offices, and land from an Immediate Lessor name Fred. Ashworth, Esq. The land was over 6 acres in size and valued at 6 Pounds and 7 Shillings. The house and offices were valued at 3 Pounds and 2 Shillings. The total valuation of the land and buildings was 9 Pounds and 9 Shillings. Benjamin Baskerville would have paid a percentage of the value of the property toward the tax. An office in a Griffiths Valuation referred to outbuildings such as a barn, stable, blacksmith shop, piggery, etc.

The map number, 7a, refers to the location of Ben Baskerville’s property on an Ordnance Survey Map from the time period. This map is very similar to the Ordnance Survey Map you saw earlier from the GeoHive website. The map from the GeoHive website however, does not have the map numbers delineated on it, the way the map from Grififths Valuation does. That’s basically the difference between the two maps. I accessed the map of Pallasbeg from the index for Ben Baskerville at the askaboutireland website, but could not locate map reference 7a. I found map reference 7, though I’m not sure if 7a would have been contiguous to this piece of property. Also, I have had difficulty in the past with either attaching or linking the Griffiths Valuation Ordnance Survey Maps from askaboutireland to replies such as this, as I believe there are under copyright restrictions which prevent sending theses maps electronically without permission.

The next three Griffiths Valuation transcriptions from askaboutireland are for John Corbett leasing land only in Pallasbeg. The first entry, at map Refernce 8, shows he is leasing a house, offices and over 9 acres of land from Fred Ashworth Esq. The land is valued at 9 Pounds while the house and offices are valued at 4 Pounds and 15 Shillings. The total value of the lease is 13 Pounds and 15 Shillings:

No. and Letters of Reference to Map: 8
Civil Parish: Youghalarra
Townland: Pallasbeg
Occupier: John Corbett
Immediate Lessor: Fred. Ashworth, Esq.
Description of Tenement: House, offices, and land
Area of Land: 9 Acres, 0 Roods, 39 Perches,
Rateable Annual Valuation of Land: 9 Pounds
Rateable Annual Valuation of Buildings: 4 Pounds, 15 Shillings
Total Annual Valuation of Rateable Property: 13 Pounds, 15 Shillings
____

Griffiths Valuation also shows that John Corbett is leasing over 12 acres of land from Fred. Ashworth valued at 9 Pounds at Map Reference 10 in Pallasbeg:

No. and Letters of Reference to Map: 10
Civil Parish: Youghalarra
Townland: Pallasbeg
Occupier: John Corbett
Immediate Lessor: Fred. Ashworth, Esq.
Description of Tenement: Land
Area of Land: 12 Acres, 1 Rood, 30 Perches,
Rateable Annual Valuation of Land: 9 Pounds
Rateable Annual Valuation of Buildings: -
Total Annual Valuation of Rateable Property: 9 Pounds
____

At Map Reference 11 in Pallasbeg John Corbett is shown to have leased over 9 acres of land valued at 6 Pounds and 19 Shillings from Fred. Ashworth Esq.

No. and Letters of Reference to Map: 11
Civil Parish: Youghalarra
Townland: Pallasbeg
Occupier: John Corbett
Immediate Lessor: Fred. Ashworth, Esq.
Description of Tenement: Land
Area of Land: 9 Acres, 3 Roods, 32 Perches,
Rateable Annual Valuation of Land: 6 Pounds, 19 Shillings
Rateable Annual Valuation of Buildings: -
Total Annual Valuation of Rateable Property: 6 Pounds, 19 Shillings
____

The following two Griffiths Valuation entries are for James Corbett in Pallasbeg. He is leasing only land. At Map Reference 9 he is leasing over 20 acres of land valued at 19 Pounds and 17 Shillings from Fred. Ashworth Esq.

At Map Reference 12 James Corbett is shown to be leasing over 15 acres of land valued at 9 Pounds and 18 Shillings from Fred. Ashworth Esq.

The two Griffiths Valuation entries are below:

No. and Letters of Reference to Map: 9
Civil Parish: Youghallarra
Townland: Pallasbeg
Occupier: James Corbett
Immediate Lessor: Fred. Ashworth, Esq.
Description of Tenement: Land
Area of Land: 20 Acres, 2 Roods, 25 Perches,
Rateable Annual Valuation of Land: 19 Pounds, 17 Shillings
Rateable Annual Valuation of Buildings: -
Total Annual Valuation of Rateable Property: 19 Pounds, 17 Shillings
____

No. and Letters of Reference to Map: 12
Civil Parish: Youghallarra
Townland: Pallasbeg
Occupier: James Corbett
Immediate Lessor: Fred. Ashworth, Esq.
Description of Tenement: Land
Area of Land: 15 Acres, 0 Roods, 39 Perches,
Rateable Annual Valuation of Land: 9 Pounds, 18 Shillings
Rateable Annual Valuation of Buildings: -
Total Annual Valuation of Rateable Property: 9 Pounds, 18 Shillings
____

John and James Corbett were likely related to Mary Corbett Baskerville.

In the Tithe Applotment Books the Lessor in Pallisbeg was Robert Ashworth Esq. In the Griffiths Valuation entries for Ben. Baskerville and John and James Corbett, the Lessor was Fred. Ashworth Esq. Fred. Ashworth was likely Robert Ashworth’s son. If not his son, then his nephew.

VALUATION REVISION BOOKS

While at the askaboutireland website I also found that Ben. Baskerville, plus three entries for John Corbett and two entries for James Corbett, were recorded in a record that has become known as a Valuation Revision Book, where the value of their land and houses was revised in 1850, two years after the primary valuation known as Griffiths Valuation was compiled. Revision Books also noted if a previous occupier had vacated the premises or if a particular house had been razed. For a more thorough explanation about valuation revision books and cancelled books, go to the Irish Genealogy Toolkit website link at:
https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/revision-books.html

In the case for Ben. Baskerville and the Corbetts in Pallasbeg, the Revision Books show the value of their land, houses, and outbuildings was reduced, instead of increased over the two year period from 1848, when Griffiths Valuation was completed. For example, the value of Ben Baskerville’s 6 Acres, 3 Roods, and 18 Perches of land was decreased from 6 Pounds, 7 Shillings, to 5 Pounds. The value of his house and offices went down from 3 Pounds, 2 Shillings, to 2 Pounds, 9 Shillings. The total valuation for his land, house and offices decreased from 9 Pounds, 9 Shillings in 1848, to 7 Pounds, 9 Shillings in 1850.

What I’m not sure about is whether or not Ben. Baskerville and the Corbetts had paid the tax on their leases before the value of their property was reduced. But the 1850 revisions would have been good news for them as they would have paid less taxes on their property.

You can access the 1850 valuation revisions for John and James Corbett at the askaboutireland website.

I next expanded the research to see if I could find the civil registration death records for Benjamin and Mary Baskerville. The government in Ireland commenced with civil registration of Protestant marriages on 1 April 1845. Catholic marriages at this time were not recorded by the government at the request of the Catholic Church, as the Catholic hierarchy in Ireland did not want the Anglican government to have lists of its parishioners.

Civil registration of births, marriages, and deaths for all religious denomination in Ireland began on 1 January 1864. This means that any births, marriages, and deaths after 1863, would ostensibly have been recorded by local county registrars in their respective Civil Registration Districts.. However, because civil registration for all religious denominations was new, not all births, marriages, and deaths were recorded in 1864. Even after 1864 there were births, marriages, and deaths that were not recorded, probably because they were not reported to the local registrar by either the parents, the midwife who delivered the baby, or the workhouse attendant if the baby had been born in the workhouse..

Today, the irishgenealogy.ie website has digitized, and placed online for free, copies of original civil birth records from 1864 to 1916. Copies of original marriages are online for the years 1870 to 1941. Copies of original death records are available for the years 1878 to 1966. The irishgenealogy.ie website plans to make available online, copies or original marriage records back to 1845, and death records back to 1864. At present there are indexes of marriages from 1845 to 1869, and death indexes from 1864 to 1877. But the marriage indexes from 1845 to 1869 do not give a lot of information. For example, marriage indexes include the name of only one of the partners, the year of the marriage, the Superintendent Registration District where the marriage was recorded, and the volume and page number where the marriage can be found in the marriage register.

Today, birth, marriage, and death registers are held by the General Register Office (GRO), with locations in Dublin and Roscommon Town, County Roscommon.

I didn’t find a death record for Benjamin Baskerville at irishgenealogy.ie, which could be an indication that he died before 1864. But, I did locate the death record for Mary Baskerville at irishgenealogy.ie showing that she died in Pallasbeg on December 11, 1882 at the age of 80 years. The death record notes that she was the “Widow of a Farmer,” and that the cause of death was, “Natural Causes Found Dead.” The local registrar who recorded Mary’s death was John Keogh. He wrote on her death record that he, “Received Information from Michael Magher Coroner for County Tipperary,” about Mary’s death. John Keogh recorded Mary’s death in the Nenagh Registration District on December 16, 1882. Mary’s death record is attached to this reply. Hers is entry number 180, or the second entry down from the top of the death register page.

I expanded the search again to see if I could find any Baskervilles or Corbetts living in Pallasbeg in the 1901 and 1911 census enumerations of Ireland. I didn’t find any Baskervilles in Pallasbeg in the 1901 or 1911 census returns. But I did find the family of Michael and Mary Corbett and their family in both enumerations living in “Pallas Beg.”

The 1901 census shows the Corbetts in house 5, Pallas Beg, Youghalarra. House 5 is not the house number on a particular street in Pallas Beg, but refers to the number of the census form. The head of the household, Michael Corbett, is shown to be a 38 year old married farmer and a Roman Catholic born in County Tipperary. The census also shows he could read and write. His wife Mary is 35 years old and listed as a “Housewife,” who was born in County Tipperary, was a Roman Catholic, and could read and write. Michael and Mary’s children were also born in County Tipperary. The oldest is 4 year old Margaret, who is listed as a “Scholar,” that is, a student who could not read or write. The youngest child is 2 year old Winifred. Also in the household is James’s 33 year old sister in law, Jane Ryan, whose occupation was, “Assistant to Househwife.” She could read and write and was not married. Jane Ryan then, would be Mary Corbett’s sister. This shows that Michael Corbett had married Mary Ryan. Also in the household is a farm servant, 58 year old Cornelius O’Brien who was born in County Tipperary and who could read. He was not married.

The census transcription below was accessed from the National Archives of Ireland search engine at:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

1901 Census of Ireland

Residents of a house 5 in Pallas Beg (Youghalarra, Tipperary)

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy
Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses

Corbett Michael 38 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Tipperary Farmer Read and write Married
Corbett Mary 35 Female Wife Roman Catholic Tipperary Housewife Read and write Married
Corbett Margaret 4 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Tipperary Scholar Cannot read Not Married
Corbett Winefred 2 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Tipperary Scholar Cannot read Not Married
Ryan Jane 33 Female Sister in Law Roman Catholic Tipperary Assistant to Housewife Read and write Not Married
OBrien Cornelius 58 Male Servant Roman Catholic Tipperary Farm Servant Read Not Married

Source Information: National Archives of Ireland
____

To view a copy of the original 1901 census for the household of Michael and Mary Corbett, go to the National Archives of Ireland link at: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003899374/

The 1911 census transcription spells the last name of the Corbett family as, “Corlett.” The 1911 census shows the family still living in Pallas Beg, Yougharra. In this census Michael Corbett is a 48 year old farmer and his wife Mary is 51 years old. In the 1901 census Michael was 3 years older than Mary, but in the 1911 census Mary is recorded as 3 years older than Michael. This shows you can’t always trust ages in these old census returns.

On the 1911 census line for Mary Corbett you’ll see the numbers: 18, 2, and 2. These numbers mean that she and Michael, as of 1911, had been married for 18 years, and in that time had 2 children born to them, with the 2 children still living. The children, 15 year old Margaret and 13 year old Winifred, are in the household and are shown to be scholars who could read and write and who could speak Irish and English. Also in the household is Michael’s 15 year old nephew, James Corbett, who was born in Tipperary and who was a scholar who could read and write and speak Irish and English. Mary Corbett’s 49 year old unmarried sister Jane Ryan is also in the household. She is listed as a “Visitor,” rather than James’s sister in law. She is followed by a farm servant, 29 year old Michael Madden, born in County Tipperary. He was a Roman Catholic who could read and write. He too was unmarried.

The 1911 census transcription from the National Archives of Ireland follows:

1911 Census of Ireland

Residents of a house 6 in Pallas Beg (Youghalarra, Tipperary)

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy
Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living

Corlett Michael 48 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Farmer Read and write Married
Corlett Mary 51 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Read and write Married 18 2 2
Corlett Margaret 15 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Read and write
Irish and English Single
Corlett Winifred 13 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Read and write
Irish and English Single
Corlett James 15 Male Nephew Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Read and write
Irish and English Single
Ryan Jane 49 Female Visitor Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Read and write Irish and English Single
Madden Michael 29 Male Servant Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Farm Servant Read and write Single

Source Information: National Archives of Ireland
____

To view a copy of the original 1911 census for the Corbett family go to: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003318612/

The 1911 census shows that Michael and Mary Corbett were married for 18 years, placing their year of marriage in 1893. I looked for their marriage record at the irishgenealogy.ie website and found it. The record shows they were married in the Roman Catholic Chapel of Nenagh on February 14, 1893. At the time of marriage Michael was shown to have been a bachelor of “full age,” as well as a farmer, and living in Youghalarra. His father was James Corbett who was still living. The father’s occupation was farmer.

Mary Ryan was of full age and a spinster at the time of marriage. Because of the handwriting on the marriage record I couldn’t make out where she was living at the time of marriage. Her father’s name appears to be James Ryan, who was a farmer and who was deceased. I couldn’t make out the full name of the priest who married James and Mary, but his first name was Patrick. One of the witnesses to the marriage appears to be James Nolin, but I could be wrong about his last name because the handwriting is faded and difficult to read. The other witness to the marriage is Bridget Ryan. In addition, I couldn’t make out the name of the registrar who recorded the marriage in the Nenagh Registration District on the 15th day of February 1893. The marriage record is attached to this reply.

I am surmising whether Mary Ryan Corbett may have been related to Patrick Ryan, whose wife was Ellen Baskerville.

Deborah, this reply is getting rather lengthy and so I’ll close here. I’ll be sending a follow-up reply with information about the family of Patrick Ryan and Ellen Baskerville.

This reply includes two attachments. The first attachment is the 1882 civil registration death record for Mary Baskerville. The second attachment is for the 1893 marriage of Michael Corbett and Mary Ryan.

You may already have a lot of the information I found, which means you can compare your records with the records in this reply. If you should find that any of the records I uncovered in this reply do not pertain to your direct line or a collateral lines, do not add these records to your permanent genealogical collection, as you wouldn’t want future researchers to perpetuate any inconsistencies I may have made in the research.

Best Wishes Deborah,

Dave

Hello again Deborah,

Can you clarify when Rachael Baskerville Hogan married her second husband Patrick Barry? I want to see if I can do some research on this line after I send you the Ryan/Baskerville information in the next post.

Thank you.

Dave

Hi Dave,

You did a great job with the research. I have looked at Griffiths and Applottment records as well. I also have Mary Corbett Baskervilles death date as 11 Dec 1882. It will take me a while to go through all you have sent me. Andrew, Matthew, and Elizabeth were siblings of Benjamin Baskerville(abt. 1800), children of Benjamin Baskerville(abt.1775) and Rachel. Mary Corbett did have brothers James, and John. Her father was John Corbett and mother Eleanor Baskerville. I think all the Baskervilles were probably at least cousins in North Tipperary and maybe the whole of Ireland. I have been told there weren't very many of them in Tipperary. There is some mention of Castle Otway in some people's records. I wondered if they are all related to that Otway branch. I was trying to make a connection with George Baskerville(abt 1807) as a brother of Benjamin and possibly Richard Baskerville. But if not I think they were cousins. George Baskeville lived right in the neighborhood I think, near James Baskerville. And George named his first child, a daughter, Rachel. 

Thank you too for all the links to research resources. I have not been able to find the marriage record of Patrick Barry and Rachel Baskerville or Rachel Hogan. Rachel Baskeville was married to Patrick Hogan first and after he died she married Patrick Barry. 

I haven't traced the Corbett side of the family. There is document about sale of land with leaseholders on it all around Tipperary in 1869 which shows Lot 3 in Pallasbeg occupied by Mary Baskerville ( Mary Corbett? Baskerville) and a lot nearby occupied by John Corbett. There is mention of a property in Knockanfoilmore nearby occupied by William Armitage and it talks about a mill. I have seen that mill property mentioned I think in Griffiths. I wondered if William Armitage would be related to John Armitage who was married to Ellen Baskerville(1803), another Ellen Baskerville. I have been looking for her and her family.

On Lot 4 Newtown it lists among others John Baskerville and James Corbett as leasors.

Also Lot 5 John Baskerville in Ballyrusheen. Lot 6 Esker, Patrick Barry ( my great-grandfather).

Lot 7 Cregane Patrick Barry, John Barry, John Hogan and a few more.

Lot 8 Knockannamohilly James Corbett ,Mary Baskerville, William Hogan who I think is the father of John Hogan. I believe that John Hogan was married to Mary Hogan,Rachel Baskerville's daughter with first husband Patrick Hogan. John Hogan was a farmer in Knockannamohilly in 1901 and 1911 Irish Census with family. I think his wife Mary was Rachel's daughter. 

Thank you very much for all the information. I will be reviewing it. Looking forward to your next post.

Regards,

 

 

Hi Dave,

I do have the marriage record of Rachel Baskerville and Patrick Hogan but not for Patrick Barry and Rachel.

 

Deborah

You're welcome Deborah. I had looked several times for the marriage of Rachel Baskerville Hogan and Patrick Barry but didn't find it either. I'm just about through with records I found concerning Patrick Ryan and Ellen Baskerville, and am also compiling baptism/birth records for Patrick Hogan and Rachel Baskerville and Patrick Barry and Rachel Baskerville Hogan Barry. It's difficult to concentrate on the research during the week because of work commitments, but I should have most of the records ready to send to you sometime this weekend.

Thanks Deborah,

Dave

Hi Dave,

Thank you for all your research.

You're welcome Deborah.

Dave

Attached Files

Hello Deborah,

In a previous email I had mentioned the civil registration birth record for Mary Ryan from the irishgenealogy.ie website which shows that she was born on 2 January 1868. Her place of birth is recorded as, “Portroe, Castletown,” Tipperary. Her father is Patrick Ryan, employed as a farmer and residing in Portroe. Her mother is Ellen Ryan, formerly Baskerville. Mary’s birth was reported to the local registrar by her father Patrick. The registrar, Robert L. Roe, recorded the birth on 17 February in the Nenagh Registration District. Mary’s birth record is attached to this reply. Her birth is entry 119 of the birth register.

A Google Map shows that Portroe is 6.7 miles west of Nenagh. Portroe is also just south of Youghalarra. See the map at: https://is.gd/jKkYOj

My Tipperary cousins from Ballycommon Nigh, Nenagh, pronounce Portroe as, “Portroo.”

Also at irishgenealogy.ie I found the civil registration birth record for William Ryan, who was born in Faha, Castletown, Tipperary, on 25 September 1870. His father is Patrick Ryan, a farmer residing in Faha. William’s mother is Ellen Ryan, formerly Baskerville. Patrick Ryan the father was the person who reported William’s birth to the local registrar, Robert L. Roe, who recorded the birth in the Nenagh Registration District on 29 September 1870. William’s is the first birth entry on the birth register. William’s birth record is attached to this reply.

A Google Map shows that Faha is just a half mile south as the crow flies from Portroe: https://is.gd/AEvBRd

For a Google Street View of Faha see: https://is.gd/XzsVYZ

After William, I located the birth record for Bridget Ryan, who was born in Portroe on May 18, 1874. Her father is Patrick Ryan, a farmer from Portroe. Bridget’s mother is Ellen Ryan, formerly Baskerville. Patrick Ryan reported the birth to the local registrar, John Keogh, who recorded the birth in the Nenagh Registration District on May 25, 1874. Bridget’s birth is entry 108 of the birth register. Bridget’s birth record is also attached to this reply.

I didn’t find any more civil registration birth records for the children of Patrick Ryan and Ellen Baskerville at the irishgenealogy.ie website, but I did locate a total of seven baptism records for the children of Patrick and Bridget. They were baptized in the Portroe Catholic Church. These records were initially found as baptism transcriptions at the Find My Past (FMP) website.

Before getting to the baptism records themselves, below are the names and years of baptism for the 7 children, including Mary:

James Ryan, 1860
John Ryan, 1860
James Ryan, 1863
Eliza Ryan, 1865
Mary Ryan, 1868
William Ryan, 1870
Bridget Ryan, 1874
____

As you can see in the above list of Ryan children, Patrick and Bridget had twins James and John. You’ll also see a second baptism record for a James Ryan. This means that the first-born James had died and that his parents named another son after him.

James and John Ryan were baptized on 9 November 1860. Their baptisms can be accessed at the following NLI link: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634767#page/25/mode/1up

You’ll see two facing pages to the baptism register. The baptism information goes across both pages. The baptisms for John and James Ryan are the 4th and 5th entries down the page. The record shows that the parents are “Patt” Ryan and Ellen Baskerville. Their residence is Faha. On the right-hand page of the register you’ll see the names of the sponsors, or godparents. The godparents for John are James Ryan and Eliza Mannix. The godparents for James are Mat Hayes and Ellen Ryan. What is not recorded in the baptisms for John and James is the name of the parish priest who baptized them.

The baptism register as you can see is very neatly written and looks like a copy, probably transcribed from the original baptism register at a later date by either the parish priest or perhaps a sexton of the church.

Deborah, had you known that Patrick and Ellen Ryan had twins?

There won’t be civil registration birth records for the twins John and James or for the second-born James, as the Irish government didn’t commence with recording births, marriages, and deaths for all religious denominations until January 1, 1864. Birth records were usually reported to the local registrar or assistant registrar by either the father or mother of the child, or the midwife who delivered the baby. Sometimes, the parents or the midwife failed to report the births to the local registrar or assistant registrar. This is unfortunate, as it deprives some family historians looking for Irish ancestors the opportunity to obtain birth records they need for their genealogy projects

As you know civil registration records are held today by the General Register Office (GRO), from which irishgenealogy.ie has obtained the records.

Getting back to the baptisms, the next child to be baptized in the Portroe Catholic Church is the second-born James Ryan. He was baptized on 9 December 1863. His parents are Pat Ryan and Ellen Baskerville. Their residence is Faha. The godparents are James Baskerville and Eliza Ryan. James’s baptism record is the 8th record down the page and can be found at the following NLI link: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634767#page/30/mode/1up

Eliza was baptized after James. She was baptized on 27 October 1865. Her parents are Patt Ryan and Ellen Baskerville residing in Faha. The godparents are John Ryan and Elizabeth Ryan. Her baptism is the 14th record down the page and can be accessed at the following link: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634767#page/33/mode/1up

Mary Ryan was baptized after Eliza. Her baptism took place on 2 January 1868. Her parents are recorded as Pat Ryan and Ellen Baskerville of Faha. The godparents are Wm (William) Brennan and Judith Joyce. The baptism is the 2nd record on the page can be found at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634767#page/37/mode/1up

Next William Ryan was baptized on 11 September 1870. His is the 5th record up from the bottom of the page. You can find his baptism record at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634767#page/41/mode/1up

His parents are Pat Ryan and Ellen Baskerville of Faha. William’s godparents are Denis Ryan and Mary Gleeson.

The youngest Ryan child in the baptism records, as was the case in the aforementioned birth records, is Bridget, who was baptized in the Portroe Catholic Church on 18 May 1874. Her parents are Patt Ryan and Ellen Baskerville of Portroe. Bridget’s godparents are Peter Farrell and Bridget Waddell. Bridget’s baptism is the 6th record down the page and can be found at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634767#page/49/mode/1up

Four of the Ryan children were born and baptized after civil registration of births, marriages, and deaths commenced in Ireland for all religious denominations. These children are Eliza (1865); Mary (1868); William (1870); and Bridget (1874.

I next wanted to see if I could find the civil registration birth records for Eliza, William, and Bridget at the irishgenealogy.ie website. I didn’t find the birth record for Eliza. Her birth may not have been recorded, or I may have missed locating it. I did however uncover the birth record for Mary as noted earlier, and also found the birth records for William and Bridget, which are attached to this reply.

William was born in Faha, Castletown, on 5 September 1870. His father is Patrick Ryan, a farmer residing in Faha. William’s mother is Bridget Ryan, formerly Baskerville. Patrick reported the birth to the local registrar, Robert L. Roe, who recorded the birth in the Nenagh Registration District on 29 September 1870. William’s is the first birth record on the page

Bridget Ryan was born in Portroe on May 18, 1874. Her father is Patrick Ryan, a farmer residing in Portroe. Her mother is Bridget Ryan, formerly Baskerville. Patrick reported the birth to the local registrar, John Keogh, who recorded the birth in the Nenagh Registration Distract on May 25, 1874. Bridget’s birth is the second record on the birth register page.

After locating the baptism and birth records for the Ryan children, I first looked for the church marriage transcription for Ellen Baskerville and Patrick Ryan at the Find My Past website. I first looked for their marriage in the Portroe Catholic registers, but didn’t find the marriage there. But in expanding the search at Find My Past I did find that their marriage took place in the Youghal Arra Catholic Parish on 15 February 1860. The link to the National Library of Ireland parish registers of marriage for Youghal Arra however, doesn’t bring up the register with the marriage recorded on it. This register is not a copy of the original, but a handwritten transcription, probably from the early 1900s, taken from the original.

But, if you access the Find My Past transcription for the marriage, you’ll see in the right-hand portion of the page the words, “View Image.” If you click on View Image you will be taken to a copy of the original hand-written marriage register for Youghal Arra, which does contain the marriage record for February 15, 1860. The marriage entry is the 4th up from the bottom of the left-hand register page, and reads:

15. Patt Ryan, Castletown to Ellen Baskerville Yl Wss. Thos. & Mary Ryan, Lisheen. By Rev. Mr. Gavin.
____

I’ve attached the marriage record to this reply for easy access.

The marriage record shows that Patrick Ryan was living in Castletown at the time of marriage. I suspect, though can’t be 100 percent sure, that the “Yl” after Ellen’s name stands for Youghal Arra, her residence at the time of marriage. The “Wss” following Ellen’s name stands for “Witnesses,” that is, witnesses to the marriage. The witnesses were Thomas and Mary Ryan. The town of Liskeen, I believe, refers to the residence of the witnesses, Thomas and Mary Ryan. The marriage record also shows that Patrick and Ellen were married by the Rev. Mr. Gavin.

Deborah, the Find My Past website not only includes baptism and marriage transcriptions with links to original Catholic Parish registers held by the National Library of Ireland, but also contains baptism and marriage indexes. At the search engine for marriages, I did a blind search for Baskerville marriages in all 32 counties of Ireland. Find My Past has indexed and transcribed 12 Baskerville marriages, with 10 of the marriages taking place in the Youghal Arra, County Tipperary Catholic Parish, one marriage in the Portroe Catholic Parish, and one marriage in the St. Peter’s Athlone, Roscommon Catholic Parish. You can view the marriage indexes at the following link: https://is.gd/4wDJM3

From the indexes you can access the transcriptions. To access the transcriptions however, you’ll have to register with Find My Past first, if you haven’t already done so. Once you’re registered and have accessed the transcriptions, you’ll be able to link to the marriages held by the National Library of Ireland for either the Youghal Arra Parish, the Portroe Parish, of the St. Peter’s Athlone, County Roscommon Parish. Maybe you’ll be able to find relationships in common with your Ellen Baskerville in at least some of these Baskerville marriages.

As mentioned above, I believe the initials Yl in the marriage record refers to Ellen Baskerville’s residence of Youghl Arra, which is also spelled Youghalarra. The marriage record shows Patrick is from Castletown. Both Youghalarra and Casteltown are near the shores of Lough Derg. A Google Map shows that Casteltown by the shortest route is a little over 4 miles west of Youghalarra. See the map at: https://is.gd/rJm1sn

STEPHEN DARCY AND BRIDGET RYAN

Your information shows that Stephen Darcy married Bridget Ryan, and that they had a son named William. I found the civil registration marriage record for Stephen and Bridget, which is attached to this reply. They were married in the Roman Catholic Chapel of Ballina, Tipperary, on 6 February 1894. Both were of “full” age when they married. The marriage record also shows that Stephen had been a widower when he married. His occupation was “Shopkeeper,” and his residence was Ballina. His father was Michael Darcy, a farmer. The marriage record further notes that the father, Michael Darcy was “dead.”

The record shows that at the time of marriage Bridget was a spinster and that her profession was “Farmer.” Her father is Patrick Ryan, who is also a farmer. The clergyman who married Stephen and Bridget was James O’Brien. The name of one of the witnesses to the marriage appears to be Martin F. Towley, but I could be wrong about the spelling of his last name . The other witness is Mary T. Ryan, who may have been Bridget’s sister.

I next found the civil birth record for William Darcy. You had also mentioned William in your first post to the Ireland Reaching Out message board for County Tipperary. William was born in Ballina, Tipperary, on May 5, 1895. His father is Stephen Darcy, a shopkeeper residing in Ballina. William’s mother is Bridget Darcy, formerly Ryan. Stephen Darcy reported the birth to the local registrar, John Keogh, who recorded William’s birth in the Nenagh Registration District on 10 June 1895. William’s birth is entry 394 in the register. A copy of the original birth record for William is attached to this email.

The next search involved going to the 1901 census at the National Archives of Ireland website to see if I could find Patrick, Bridget, and William Darcy, and any other children that Patrick and Bridget may have had between the birth of William in 1895, and the census in 1901. You probably already have located the 1901 census which shows that 32 year old Bridget D’Arcy is a widow whose occupation is “Publican.” The census also shows that Bridget does not have any children younger than her 5 year old son William, which is an indication that she and her husband Patrick did not have any additional children before Patrick’s death. There are two other children in the household who are shown to be Bridget’s sons. They are 12 year old Patrick, and 10 year old Michael. As you know they would not be Bridget’s sons, but the sons of Patrick Darcy from his first marriage. You’ll also see Bridget’s sister in the household, 26 year old Johanna Ryan, who is not married and is employed as an “Assistant.” She likely was working for Bridget. The household also includes a servant and several boarders, which indicates that Bridget was not only a publican, but also a boarding house or hotel keeper in Ballina.

The 1901 census transcription from the National Archives of Ireland follows:

1901 Census of Ireland

Residents of a house 24 in Ballina (Ballina, Tipperary)

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses

D'Arcy Bridget 32 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Tippreay Publican Read and write Widow
D'Arcy William 5 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tippreary Scholar Read Not Married
D'Arcy Patrick 12 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tippreary Scholar Read and write Not Married
D'Arcy Michael 10 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tippreay Scholar Read and write Not Married
Ryan Johanna 26 Female Sister Roman Catholic Co Tippreary Shop Assistant Read and write Not Married
Mullins Katie 19 Female Servant Roman Catholic Co Clare General Servant Domestic
Read and write Not Married
Widdall Alferd 25 Male Boarder Church England Yorkshire, England Royal Engineer
Read and write Not Married
Kenney John 25 Male Boarder Roman Catholic Co Clare Surveyor Read and write Not Married
Spinnett Frank 19 Male Boarder Roman Catholic Co Limerick Surveyor Read and write
Not Married
Nash Michael 21 Male Boarder Roman Catholic Co Limerick Surveyor Read and write
Not Married
Earls Thomas 22 Male Boarder Roman Catholic Co Clare Surveyor Read and write Not Married
Cokley William 21 Male Boarder Methodist Co Limerick Checker Read and write Not Married
____

To view a copy of the original 1901 census for the Bridget Darcy household, go to the National Archives of Ireland link at: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003898371/

I went back to the Find My Past website to see if I could find a baptism record for Bridget Darcy’s sister, Johanna Ryan, but didn’t find it. I also went to the irishgenealogy.ie website to see if I could find Johanna’s civil registration birth record, but didn’t find that either. It’s possible I missed locating these records at those two websites.

But, I did find the civil registration death record for Bridget’s husband, Stephen Darcy, which is attached to this reply. He died on March 24, 1898 in Ballina. At the time of death he was 37 years old and married. His occupation was “Shop Keeper.” The cause of death was, “Rheumatic Fever 3 Weeks, Heart failure 10 hours Certified.” His death was reported to the local registrar by his wife Bridget. The registrar, John Keogh, recorded the death in the Nenagh Registration District on 5 May 1898. Stephen’s death is recorded entry 136 on the death register.

I was curious to see who Stephen Darcy’s first wife was and when she died. In the 1901 census the oldest Darcy child is 12 year old Patrick. I looked for his civil registration birth record at the irishgenealogy.ie website, as his birth record would give his mother’s first named maiden names. If his age of 12 years old in 1901 census is correct, Patrick would have been born circa 1888-1889. I found his birth record showing his full name is recorded as Patrick Anthony Darcy. He was born in Ballina on January 12, 1888. His father is Stephen Darcy, a “Grocer,” residing in Ballina. Patrick’s mother is Josephine Darcy, formerly Mullins. The father, Stephen Darcy reported the birth to the local registrar, John Keogh, who recorded Patrick’s birth in the Nenagh Registration District on February 2, 1888. Patrick’s birth record is attached to this reply. His birth is entry 282 of the birth register.

I also found the birth record of Patrick’s younger brother Michael. Michael John Darcy was born in Ballina on 26 February 1890. His father is Stephen Darcy, a “Farmer,” living in Ballina. Michael’s mother is Johanna Darcy, formerly Mullins. The birth record for Patrick Darcy two years earlier records his mother’s first name as “Josephine,” not Johanna. Stephen Darcy reported Michael’s birth to the local registrar, John Keogh, who recorded the birth in the Nenagh Registration District on 20 March 1890. Michael’s birth record is attached to this reply and is the first birth recorded in the register.

Stephen Darcy’s first wife Josephine or Johanna Mullins Darcy would have died between the birth of Michael on 26 February 1890, and Stephen’s marriage to Mary Ryan on 6 February 1894. I found the death record for Johanna Darcy. She died in Ballina on 31 May 1891 at age 29. She is shown to have been married and the wife of a farmer. The cause of death was, “Puerperal Fever 5 days certified.” Puerperal fever is an infection contracted after giving birth. Stephen Darcy was present at the death and reported Johanna’s death to the local registrar, John Keogh, who recorded the death in the Nenagh Registration District on July 6 1891. Johanna’s death record is attached to this reply.

I didn’t find the birth or death record for Stephen and Johanna’s child, who may have been a stillbirth.

Next I looked for Bridget Darcy and her family in the 1911 census. I found 43 year old Bridget, her 15 year old son William, 21 year old step son Michael, and her 38 year old sister Anna Ryan living in Ballina Town. Bridget is shown to be a widow who is employed as a shopkeeper. Her son William is a scholar while her stepson Michael is a farm labourer. No occupation is listed for Bridget’s sister Anna Ryan. The household also includes 20 year old servant, Dellia Burke, and four boarders. The 1911 census transcription from the National Archives of Ireland in below:

1911 census of Ireland

Residents of a house 18 in Ballina Town (Ballina, Tipperary)

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy
Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living

D'Arcy Bridget 43 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Shop Keeper
Read and write Widow
D'Arcy William 15 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Read and write Irish and English Single
D'Arcy Michael 21 Male Step Son Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Farm Labourer Read and write Single
Ryan Anna 38 Female Sister Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Read and write Single
Burke Dellia 20 Female Servant Roman Catholic Co Clare Shop Assistant Read and write Single
Sullivan Michael 50 Male Boarder Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Cattle Dealer Read and write Single
Whelan Thomas 30 Male Boarder Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Farmer Read and write Single
Sullivan Patrick 55 Male Boarder Roman Catholic Co Limerick Farmer Read and write Married
Bray Maurice 60 Male Boarder Roman Catholic Co Limerick Farmer Read and write Married
____

You can view a copy of the original 1911 census for the household of Bridget D’Arcy at the following National Archives of Ireland link: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003316585/

Deborah, this reply includes the following 10 attachments:

Mary Ryan 1868 birth
William Ryan 1870 birth
Bridget Ryan 1874 birth
Patrick Ryan and Ellen Baskerville 1860 marriage
Stephen Darcy and Bridget Ryan 1894 marriage
William Darcy 1895 birth
Stephen Darcy 1898 death
Patrick Darcy 1888 birth
Michael Darcy 1890 birth
Johanna Darcy 1891 death
____

I’ll close here. The next reply will concern records I’ve found concerning Patrick Hogan and Rachael Baskerville and their children, and Patrick Barry and Rachael Baskerville Hogan Barry, and their children.

Kind Regards,

Dave

Hi David,

I just saw this post. I was not notified you posted again. Thank you again for such thorough research. There are some things I did not know. I don't think I knew Ellen Baskerville and Patrick Ryan had twins. I did not that there was a John 1860 and James 1863. I will have to look again for James 1860. I did not see those Census records before so I will add them to my tree. I knew about Bridget's son William Stephen Darcy and now thinking about it realize her husband died 1898, 3 years after William was born, so she had no more children. I did not know she had the 2 stepsons until you mentioned the Census records.

I will go through and review the information you sent. Thank you very much.

Regards,

Attached Files

You’re welcome Deborah.

In the latest research I found the marriage transcription for Patrick Hogan and Rachael Baskerville at the Find My Past website. The transcription is linked to a copy of the original marriage record in the Youghal Arra Catholic Church, County Tipperary, on 20 February 1849. The marriage record is the 5th entry down the right-hand register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634643#page/64/mode/1up

The marriage record shows that Pat Hogan was from Esker and that Rachel Baskerville was from Pallisbeg. The witnesses to the marriage were Michael Conway of Creganes (Creggane) and Bridt Corbet of Pallisbeg, Youghal (Arra). The priest who married Pat Hogan and Rachel Baskerville was Jas. Ryan.

I next found the baptism records for three children of Patrick Hogan and Rachel Baskerville. I also uncovered the baptism records for six children of Patrick Barry and Rachel Baskerville. The baptism transcriptions were located at the Find My Past website, and are linked to the Youghal Arra baptism registers held by the National Library of Ireland.

The names and birth/baptism years for the children of Patrick Hogan and Rachel Baskrville, and Patrick Barry and Rachel Baskerville Barry are below. You may already have these:

Mary Hogan, 1850
Thomas Hogan, 1852
Patt Hogan, 1856
Jno. Barry, 1858
James Barry, 1860
Hannah Barry, 1862
Ben Barry, 1864
Joseph Barry, 1866
Garret Barry, 1868
____

As you can see from the above list Pat Hogan (1856) was born two years before John Barry (1858), which means that Rachel Baskerville Hogan would have married Patrick Barry in the narrow time frame between 1856 to 1858, and which also means that Patrick Hogan either died during the same time period, or deserted Rachael and the children during the same time period. You and I have both looked for the marriage of Patrick Barry and Rachael Baskerville but without results. I believe I found a plausible explanation for not having uncovered their marriage record.

The Youghal Arra marriage registers held by National Library of Ireland show there are several gaps in the marriages between 1856 and 1858. For example, marriages are missing for the months of March, October, and December of 1856.

Marriages are also missing for the moths of January, March, April, July, November, and December of 1857.

For the year 1858 Youghal Arra marriages are missing for the months of March, April, May, June, July, August, September, and December. It’s possible that Patrick Barry and Rachael Baskerville were married in one of the months that are no longer extent for the Youghal Arra Catholic Church

The following are links at the National Library of Ireland website where each of the Hogan/Barry baptisms can be accessed:

Mary Hogan’s baptism record shows she was born on January 15, 1850 and baptized on January 16 1850. Hers is the 4th entry down from the top of the left-hand baptism register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634645#page/11/mode/1up

Mary’s father is Pat Hogan. Her mother is Rachel Baskerville. The godparents are James Corbett and Bridget Corbett.

Next, Thos Hogan was born on 21 November 1852 and baptized on 21 November 1852. His father is Patt Hogan. His mother is Rachel Baskerville. The last names of the godparents extend into the fold of the register. But their names appear to be Michael Hogan and Mary Corbett. Thomas’s record is the 2nd entry down from the top of the left-hand baptism register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634645#page/16/mode/1up

Patrick Hogan was born and baptized after Thomas. Patrick was born on 1 July 1856 and baptized on 2 July 1856. His father is Patt Hogan and his mother is Rachel Baskerville. The godparents are John Baskerville and Mary Corbett. Patrick’s record is on the right-hand register page, 8th entry down from the top at:
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634645#page/21/mode/1up

Jno (John) Barry is the first child I located with the Barry surname. The date of his birth is buried in the fold of the baptism register, but he was baptized on 20 August 1868. His father is Patk Barry. His mother is Rachel Baskerville. The godparents are Jno Barry and Mary Corbett. John’s baptism is the 8th entry down from the top of the right-hand register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634645#page/25/mode/1up

James Barry was born and baptized on 23 May 1860. His father is Patt Barry and his mother Rachel Baskerville. The godparents are James Barry and Bridget Barry. James birth and baptism is the 5th entry down from the top of the left-hand register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634645#page/30/mode/1up

Hannah Barry was born next. The day of her birth is hidden in the fold of the register, but her baptism took place on 4 May 1862. Her father is Patk. Barry. Her mother is Rachel Baskerville. The godparents are Jas. Baskerville and Mary Barry. Hannah’s birth and baptism entries are located the 5th entry down from the top of the right-hand register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634645#page/34/mode/1up

Ben Barry was born and baptized after Hannah. Ben was born on 23 April 1864 and baptized on 24 April 1864. His father is Patt Barry and his mother Rachael Baskerville. Only the first name and partial last name of the godmother is visible in the record. Her name appears to be Mary Hogan. Ben’s birth and baptism can be found the 4th entry down the left-hand register page at: https://is.gd/oHVZhV

The next child is Joseph Barry. The day of his birth is hidden in the fold of the register, but he was baptized on 21 April 1866. His father is Pat Barry and his mother Rachel Baskerville. The godparents are James Baskerville and Margaret Baskerville. Joseph’s record is the first entry at the top of the right-hand register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634645#page/44/mode/1up

The youngest Barry child I found is Garrett. He was born on 2 September 1868 and baptized on 3 September 1868. His father is Pat Barry. His mother is Rachael Baskerville. The godfather is Ml (Michael) Barry. The godmother’s first name is Honora. Part of her last name is buried in the fold of the register, but appears to be Barry as well. Garrett’s is the 4th entry down from the top of the left-hand register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634645#page/48/mode/1up

Benjamin, Joseph and Garrett Barry were born after 1863, which means there could be civil registration birth records for them if their births had been reported to the local registrar by their father, mother, or perhaps midwife. I looked for their individual birth records at the irishgenealogy.ie website and found the birth records for Benjamin and Joseph, but not Garrett.

Benjamin Barry was born in Esker, Tipperary on 24 April 1864. His father is Patrick Barry, a farmer living in Esker. Benjamin’s mother is Rachel Barry, formerly Baskerville. Patt Barry reported the birth to the local registrar, Robert L. Roe, who recorded the birth in the Nenagh Registration District on May 16, 1864. Benjamin’s birth is entry 61 on the birth register, which is attached to this email.

Joseph Barry was born in Esker, Youghall, on 20 April 1866. His father is Patrick Barry, a farmer living in Esker. Joseph’s mother is Rachel Barry, formerly Baskerville. Patt Barry reported the birth to the local registrar, Robert L. Roe, who recorded the birth in the Nenagh Registration District on 30 April 1866. The birth is entry 365 in the birth register. The birth register is attached to this reply.

I didn’t find a civil registration birth record for the 1868 birth of Garrett Barry. But I did find his July 5, 1900 church marriage record that you submitted to Ancestry.com under your McKeil, Lester, Jephcott, Barry and Baskerville Families submissions. He married Norah Barry in St. Mary’s Pro Cathedral. The name of Norah’s father, coincidentally is Garrett Barry, while her mother is Margaret Slattery. The marriage record also shows that Garrett Barry (the husband) was from Esker, Nenagh, while Norah Barry was from Newtown, Nenagh. In the column just to the right of where their residence is recorded, is another column that states, “Disp,” which stands for “Dispensation.” This is an indication that Garrett and Norah received a dispensation from the Catholic Church because they were related. They were probably cousins.

Based on the church marriage record I found the civil registration marriage record for Garrett and Nora Barry at the irishgenealogy.ie website. The record shows the couple were married in the, “No Cathedral in the Registrar’s District of North City,” on July 5, 1900. The “No Cathedral” means North Cathedral, which would be a reference to St. Mary’s Pro Cathedral located at 83 Marlborough Street in Dublin. North also means north of the River Liffey in Dublin. See the Google Map at: https://is.gd/NvZWod

Also see: http://www.procathedral.ie/ and http://www.procathedral.ie/about-us/

The civil marriage record further shows that Garrett and Nora were of “full age” when they married. At the time of marriage Garrett was a bachelor while Nora was a spinster, meaning they hadn’t been previously married. Garrett’s occupation is “Farmer.” No occupation is listed for Nora. Also at the time of marriage Garrett and Nora had been living at 110 Marlborough Street in Dublin, which would not have been too far from St. Mary’s Pro Cathedral, where they were married. Garrett’s father is shown to be Patrick Barry, a “Farmer.” Nora’s father is Garrett Barry, with no occupation recorded. Thus, Nora’s father and husband had the same first and last names. The priest who married Garrett and Nora was T. Hunt. There appears to be three witnesses to the marriage, while the church marriage record only records two witnesses. The civil marriage record shows that Joseph Kinahan, Catherine Johnston, and A. Kinahan were the witnesses. In the church marriage record Catherine’s last name is spelled Johnson, rather than Johnston. Her address in the church marriage record is 20 Lower Gardiner Street in Dublin. No address is listed for her as a witness in the civil marriage record.

Next I found that Garrett and Nora Barry’s son Patrick was born out of wedlock. His civil birth record from the irishgenealogy.ie website shows he was born in the Holles Street Hospital, Dublin, on 25 June 1900. The name of his father is not recorded. His mother is Nora Barry, whose address is 110 Marlborough Street, which is the same address listed in her marriage record. The person who reported Patrick’s birth to the local registrar was the hospital’s “Occupier,” A.M. Pratt. A.M. Pratt was probably the administrator of the hospital at the time. The registrar, whose name I couldn’t make out, recorded Patrick’s birth in the South Dublin Registration District on 30 June 1900, five days before Nora and Garrett were married. Patrick’s birth record is attached to this reply.

A Google Map shows that the National Maternity Hospital, still located on Holles Street, south of the River Liffey, is a little over a mile from St. Mary’s Pro Cathedral, located north of the River Liffey: https://is.gd/UKpupr

For a Google Street View of the hospital, see: https://is.gd/jbfX79

For more information about the hospital see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maternity_Hospital,_Dublin

NORA BARRY

Based on the information from the church marriage record that Nora (Honora) Barry’s father was Garrett and that her mother was Margaret Slattery, I found her civil registration birth record at the irishgenealogy.ie website. Honora Barry was born in Newtown, Tipperary on August 1, 1877. Her father is Garrett Barry, a farmer, residing in Newtown. Her mother is Margaret Barry, formerly Slattery. Garrett Barry reported the birth to the local registrar, John Keogh, who recorded the birth in the Nenagh Registration District on August 20, 1877. The birth record is attached to this reply. It is the first record on the birth register page.

I looked for Nora’s baptism record in the Youghal Arra Catholic Registers but found that the baptisms for August are not extent. I’m not sure why. The Youghal Arra baptism register for July 1877 end on the 29th and picks up again on September 3, 1877. See the left-hand baptism register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634645#page/64/mode/1up

I also see that you found Garrett, Nora, and Patrick in the 1901 England census living at 20 Pendle Street, Accrington, Lancashire, England, where Garrett was employed as a Labourer in an Iron Works. For a Google Map of Pendle Street, Accrington, see: https://is.gd/WBQjEW

For a Google Street View of Pendle Street go to: https://is.gd/pf7nCU

You also located the family sailing into Philadelphia on board the S.S. Waesland, on 7 July 1901. This is great research you’ve done Deborah. It’s not everyone that can trace their family from Ireland to one country and then a second country after that.

CONCLUSION

This reply contains 5 attachments:

Benjamin Barry 1864 birth
Joseph Barry 1866 birth
Garrett and Nora Barry 1900 marriage
Patrick Barry 1900 birth
Honora Barry 1877 birth.
____

With Kind Regards,

Dave

Hi David,

I just looked to see if there was another post and here you were. Yes it was exciting to find the documentation of the Ship Waesland bringing Patrick, Nora, and their infant son to Philadelphia and his brother Joseph's address in San Francisco on the record as well. Thank you for the compliment because your research is amazing and very detailed. And yes Nora Barry and Garrett Barry were first cousins, their fathers were brothers ( I recently found this out with a family tree sent to me). Patrick Hogan and Rachel Baskerville had another child, Catherine Hogan, baptised 22 Dec 1854 in Youghalarra Parish. I have documentation that Catherine Hogan emigrated to Australia in 1881 on Ship Clyde with her brother Thomas to meet their brother Patrick in Sydney. I think she came back and married John Ryan on May 28,1882 and had children with him. Because the marriage record states she is from Esker, father Pat Hogan, and witness Honoria Barry, who could have been her younger half-sister. I don't think there was another Catherine or Kate Hogan from Esker with father Pat Hogan. It would mean she had to turn around from Australia and come home within 1 year or so. I just finished a complete record of Thomas Hogan emigrating to Australia and who he married and more. I am still looking for Patrick Hogan. I recently found a death record for a Patrick Hogan in Grafton, NSW where Thomas lived but I have to look into more.

I think Hannah Barry 1862 was Hannorah or Honora, I have seen her name spelled several ways. She died in the boating accident on Lough Derg in 1885. 

I will be reviewing all your contibutions here and thank you again.

 

You're welcome Deborah. It's been a pleasure. If I can be of any more assistance please let me know.

All the best,

Dave

Hi Deborah

It was very exciting reading your posts.  My GG grandfather was James Barry, born around 1840, he lived in Portroe. (I can't find a birth or baptism cert for him).  In 1862 he married Anne Tuohy and one of thier witnesses was a James Baskerville.  I have been trying to work out how / if the Baskervilles were related to James and after reading your posts I'm wondering if James was a brother of Patrick Barry (Rachel Baskervilles 2nd husband).

You mentioned that Patrick and Garret were bothers, Patrick's son Garret married Garrets daughter Nora so they were cousins.  According to Garret and Margaret Slatterys wedding certificate thier fathers name was John Barry.

Did you ever find any other brothers?  You also mentioned being given a family tree, would you be able to share that with me please if the Barry's are in it?

Many thanks

Berni

 

Hi Berni,

Yes, James Barry (abt. 1841) married to Ann Tuohy was a brother of Patrick Barry (1831-1914). Their parents John Barry (c. 1830) and Bridget Downes, (about 1805-1842). If you check my tree on Ancestry.com I have posted just about everything I have on the Barrys of my family tree. Garrett Barry was a brother of Patrick Barry as well, both are my great-grandfathers. It was Garrett Barry's daughter Nora who married Patrick Barry's son Garrett, so both were first cousins and my grandparents. I have a lot on my family tree on Ancestry and do not want to list it all. I can tell you the children I have listed for James Barry and Ann Tuohy if you do not have that.  I don't have birth or baptism records for James Barry. From my family tree information I was told they (Patrick and James) were born in Lauragh, near Inagh, County Clare and the family started coming to Tipperary in 1840s or so. Bridget Downes Barry died and John Barry remarried an Honora and had 5 more children. I found birth records for the children born in Tipperary to John Barry and Honora, ( Joseph, Bridget, Mary, John, and Honora), on rootireland.ie. And I have them on my Ancestry tree. It is believed by my Barry branch that the first four children of John Barry and Bridget Downes were born nr. Inagh, Co. Clare, (Patrick, Michael, Garrett, James). I don't have any birth records for the first 4 children, the names are from a Barry family tree and I estimated the birth years from census records and such.

What is you last name? Are you in touch with any family in Tipperary? Let me know if what I wrote is unclear.

Regards,

Deborah

 

Hi Deborah

Many thanks, I joined Ancestry temporarily so that I could take a look at your tree, very interesting.  I have James and Ann's family, their son Joseph is my great grandfather.  I also found the five children of John and Honora Barry but can't find any documentation to link James (my GGG) to them or John and Hanora. 

Joseph's daughter, Nora Barry, was my grandmother, she married a McCarthy.  The McCarthy's still live in Portroe but I'm not aware that they are in touch with any Barry's.

Regards

Bernadette

Hi Berni,

I do not have a birth record for the first 4 children of John Barry (1800) with wife Bridgette Downes. The names of his children are from my family tree and it indicates that the first 4 had mother Bridgette Downes. The information I have from my Barry cousins, part of which was passed to them by another cousin, is that John Barry and Bridgette Downes married about 1828 in Inagh. She was born around 1805 near Inagh, County Clare. John and Bridgette were brought to Tipperary by uncle Fr. Joseph Downes. It is thought she died around 1842.

I have been checking my Barry tree and see it says James Barry was born Grallagh 1842 but I can find no official record of the birth so far. I have been told that no parish records exist from Inagh prior to 1850. If he was born in Grallagh his mother could have been Honora too but on my tree his mother is shown as Bridgette Downes. There are no marriage records. The tree did list James Barry married to Ann Tuohy, which I was able to verify on rootsireland.ie as Church Record Youghalarra 30 Nov 1862. I really like rootsireland.ie for their records but you do have to subscribe. Here is a link to the record at nli Catholic Parish records for the marriage:  https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634643#page/78/mode/1up. Using Find My Past, rootsireland.ie, or even Ancestry records is easier I think if you don't know the year someone was born or married because then you have to scroll through these microfilms. I have a bit of information from my Barry cousins that was passed to them from a letter by a cousin of theirs.

It says that Joseph, son of James, married a Connors from Portroe and had children James, John, Paddy, Tom, Nancy, and Nora. John Barry, son of James Barry and Ann Tuohy, married a McCarthy and had a daughter Nancy, both died. Then John married Nora Cocoran but no children. No information about James and Ann's sons Michael, James, or William.

I just realized I needed to add more of Joseph's children to my tree, Patrick, Nancy, and Nora.

I find records on rootsireland.ie and it is hard to add them to Ancestry. There is a civil record of marriage for Joseph Barry and Annie Connors 25 Feb 1906, his father listed as James Barry a farmer and her father Thomas Connors. Witnesses: William Barry and Maggie Connors.They were married at Youghal Church by Fr. J O'Halleran. You could probably find this record on Irish Geneology under Civil records for Tipperary or Nenagh. irishgenealogy.ie is a free site and I have used it a lot. https://irishgenealogy.ie/ 

I will add that Nora Barry married a McCarthy, what was his first name?

My cousin Jim Barry, Patrick Barry and Rachel Baskerville are his Great-grandparents and mine, lives in Nenagh.

I will have to research the children I have added to the tree Nora, Patrick, and Nancy children of Joseph and Annie.

James Barry (1842) would be my Great Uncle, so you and I are cousins.

Regards,

Deborah

 

 

Hi Berni,

PS-I wanted to ask if you have the children of Joseph Barry and Annie Connors: Patrick and Nancy. I am thinking maybe Nancy is really Annie. I do not have the birth dates of Nora, Patrick, or Nancy. Do you know if these are the correct names Patrick and Nancy? Would appreciate if you would share more information with me. 

Deborah

Hi Bernie,

PSS- I found a marriage record on irishgenealogy.ie for Nora Barry and Martin McCarthy, 7 Feb 1937 at Church of Youghal, Portroe, Nenagh, Tipperary. His father listed as Daniel McCarthy, Witnesses: Joseph McCarthy and Annie Barry. I have not been able to find any birth record for Nora Barry or Martin McCarthy so I guessed the year as around 1917 subtracting 20 yrs from their marriage year. Couldn't find any birth record for Joseph's son, Patrick.

 

Deborah
 

Hi Deborah

Well that's exciting, I always like to confirm my findings with records if possible but the letter from your cousins shows the link, are you able to tell me who the letter was from?

You have Joseph and Annie's (Connors) children correct, James (1 July 1907), Annie (Nancy) (5 May 1908) married John Kennedy, John (Jack) (25 april 1912), Paddy (cira 1917), Tom (1 Dec 1913) married Mary ?, and Nora (my grandmother) (1917) married Martin McCarthy (b 1906).  The marriage record you have for them is correct although his fathers name is not!  It should be John McCarthy not Daniel.  I'm trying to get Nora and Paddys date of birth if I do I'll pass them on. Their records were destroyed in a fire.

John Barry (1864), son of James Barry and Ann Tuohy, I think married Mary Mcnamara (13 Nov 1910) not a McCarthy and had a daughter Nancy (Annie) 14 Oct 1912. Then John married Nora Cocoran (28 feb 1922) but had no children.

The only info I have on James and Ann's sons James, and William is that James was baptised on 22 Apr 1876.  William was born 20 July 1881 and I think died 17 Sept 1917. Michael was born 22 July 1871 and married Bridget ? they went to America where they had two sons, Roger James (1906) and John Michael (1908).  They were back in Ireland by 1911 as they are listed on the census in Curraghtemple with his father James and brother Patrick living with them.  Michael died 8 apr 1947 and Bridget 16 Oct 1940, their son Jon died 30 Dec 1942 but I can't find any record for Roger.

I use a number of sites but I agree, irishgenealogy.ie is a great resource and free!  I use findmypast as well and have trawled through pages and pages of records on nli Catholic Parish records looking for info, its great when you find something but hard work :)

I hope this gives you what you need, if I find out more I'll let you know.

Regards

Bernadette

 

 

Hi Berni,

The letter I am referring to belonged to my cousins and it was written by one of their cousins a May O'Donaghue. They did some of their own research as well. I believe the info was gathered in the late 1980s. I do have a few questions and I will start with the beginning of your message.

Where did you find the birth date of  Joseph's daughter, Annie ( Nancy) Barry? I  could not find one. And Paddy or Patrick?

Nora Barry and Martin McCarthy. I got the father's name off of Civil Records as Daniel. Where did you get John?

I did find the marriage record for John Barry (1864) and Mary McNamara, 13 Nov 1910, ( I have found what I think are errors on the Barry tree information I was sent. And I think this is one about him marrying a McCarthy.) And I found the marriage record for John Barry and Honoria Cocoran. I found a birth record for Anne (Nancy ) Barry 14 Oct 1912, mother listed as Mary Mack, (McNamara?). ***Mary McNamara Barry Civil Death Record 3 Nov 1914 at 36 yrs old, Nenagh Union Hospital. Wife of John Barry, Water works Caretaker. ***She died of gun shot wound***Very sad, terrible. Wonder what happened??

James Barry and Ann Tuohy's son James I found the same baptism date.Their son William the Civil birth date (July 1881) and irishroots.ie baptism dates( Jun 1881) are different. A mistake somewhere? ***On the Barry tree, it says William was married to Ann and that he was buried in Knigh1951, she was buried 1948. I looked at a site for Knigh graveyard and could not find any Barrys there, but not sure if list of the Knigh graveyard I have is complete. I can not find a marriage record or death record for William or Ann. I saw the death record you list and it could be him because it is in Curraghtemple but does not list father's name. That was sad too because that William was so young and in a workhouse. 

I found a lot of the same records you did for Michael(1871) and Bridget. I did find the graves of Michael, Bridget and their son John with the death dates you have in Youghalarra Graveyard. Couldn't find Roger yet.

I saw a US Census 1910 with a Michael Barry and Bridget in Brooklyn, New York, with children, Rodger, John M., and Sarah. Is that the same records you have?

What happened to Sarah Barry (abt. 1908)? I can't find birth or death records on her. I am thinking this US Census record is the family.

I still have to check on Paddy (Patrick) Barry (c1917) marriage to Mary.

On Nora Barry and Martin McCarthy I found several children on Ancestry with Civil Birth Records Nenagh, list mother maiden name Barry.

John J McCarthy 1937

Julia M McCarthy 1938

Ann P McCarthy 1940

Patrick J McCarthy 1941

Martin Paul McCarthy (1942-1945)

Nora B McCarthy 1944

John J McCarthy 1945

Josephine M McCarthy 1948

Mary P McCarthy 1950

Do I have Nora's children correct? And are there any I missed?

Nora and Martin McCarthy's family is not on the Barry cousin's tree.

Regards,

Deborah

 

 

 

 

Hi Benie,

PS and I couldn't find the marriage records for Annie Barry and John Kennedy or Patrick Barry and Mary.

Deborah

Hi Berni-

I found a baptism record for Martin Carthy 25 Aug 1906, Lisheen, Portroe, father John Carthy and mother Julia McNamara. Sponsors: Martin Minogue and Mrs. Conroy. I have to check but I think I have a Minogue on my Ancestry tree.

Was Martin McCarthy's mother Julia McNamara?

 

Deborah

Hi Deborah

I added your questions and my repsonses below:

Where did you find the birth date of Joseph's daughter, Annie ( Nancy) Barry? I found it on irishgenealogy.ie they have listed the mothers maiden name incorrectly, it is shown as McCormack which is her mothers maiden name.

And Paddy or Patrick? I only have the year based on the census.

Nora Barry and Martin McCarthy. I got the father's name off of Civil Records as Daniel. Where did you get John? From my family, everything else on the record is correct so we are not sure why this is showing Daniel but it should be John.

I saw a US Census 1910 with a Michael Barry and Bridget in Brooklyn, New York, with children, Rodger, John M., and Sarah. Is that the same records you have? What happened to Sarah Barry (abt. 1908)? I can't find birth or death records on her. I am thinking this US Census record is the family. This is the record I have but I don't know what happend to Sarah, I think she msut have died in the US

On Nora Barry and Martin McCarthy I found several children on Ancestry with Civil Birth Records Nenagh, list mother maiden name Barry. Do I have Nora's children correct? And are there any I missed? These are correct, none missing, John J McCarthy 1937 died in 17 Aug 1937. 

I found a baptism record for Martin Carthy 25 Aug 1906, Lisheen, Portroe, father John Carthy and mother Julia McNamara. Sponsors: Martin Minogue and Mrs. Conroy. I have to check but I think I have a Minogue on my Ancestry tree.

Was Martin McCarthy's mother Julia McNamara? Yes correct.

Let me know if I've missed anything.

Bernadette

 

Hi Berni,

Thanks for answering and clearing up information. I noticed you had the birth year for Martin McCarthy as 1906. So I looked for a birth or baptism record and found the Martin Carthy bap 25 Aug 1906 in Portroe with father John Carthy and Mother Julia McNanamara. 

Then I checked on Irish Genealogy Civic Records and found Martin McCarthy born 2 Oct 1906 in Lisheen, father John McCarthy and Mother Julia McNamara. So both those records list John McCarthy as the father. I have found occassional mistakes on records in the past. 

Wanted to give you my email if you want to correspond further.

deborahdrucker@gmail.com

Regards,

Deborah

Hi Berni,

Just found a Civic Death Record on Irish Genalogy for John Barry 35 yrs.old (son of Michael and Bridget) 30 Dec 1942 Curraghtemple,and Rodger Barry present at death. So we know Rodger was in Tipperary in 1942.

Deborah

Hi Deborah

Thanks, yes sorry I had that death record for John Barry 1942, Roger was also present at the death of his father, Michael Barry in 1947.

Berni

bernifuller@gmail.com