Searching for Givens family

OK not sure why I am commenting but it won't post until I do

Karen,

If Andrew Givens came from Carnteel and was Presbyterian, then the 2 nearest churches he may have attended were Aughnacloy and Ballyreagh. Unfortunately Aughnacloy's baptism & marriage records don?t start till 1812, and Ballyreagh?s in 1843. So you are unlikely to find his birth (or marriage if he happened to marry there too).

I note that son William was born in Tyrone in 1821. It might be worth checking the Aughnacloy records for that baptism. The records are not on-line anywhere, so far as I am aware, but there is a copy on microfilm in PRONI, Belfast.

The surname Arneil is not common in Ireland. Looking at the 1901 census there were just two households throughout the whole of Ireland. Both in Belfast, one was Presbyterian, the other Church of Ireland. (Tradition was to marry in the bride?s church so you need to consider the poissibility she wasn't Presbyterian).

No trace of the marriage on the usual Irish genealogy sites, but not all church records from that period have survived.

Griffiths Valuation for 1860 lists only 3 Arneil households throughout Ireland. Two were in the same townland (Drumfad) in Co Tyrone, not too far from Carnteel, so that?s a hint that Margaret may have originated there. Drumfad is in the parish of Killeeshil. One farm in Drumfad was rented by Thomas Arneil and immediately bedise it was another tenanted by Martha Arneil (probably a widow). The modern Goland Rd runs through Drumfad, near the Ballygawley roundabout.

I would normally recommend checking the local church records for that parish in case that?s where Margaret came from and so where they married. Unfortunately the Church of Ireland records prior to 1881 have been destroyed (in the 1922 fire in Dublin). The  local Presbyterian records for Clonaneese Lower start in 1811 for baptisms but only 1845 for marriages. Clonaneese Upper has nothing prior to the 1860s. Therefore there don?t appear to be many relevant church records available for the period you are interested in. Presbyterians don?t keep burial records either, so that won?t help.

I note that Andrew was described as a flax weaver. That indicates that his family were pretty poor and would likely have had a small cottage on someone's farm (generally paying their rent by an agreed number of days work a year on the farm). Weavers often don?t make it into official records very much, living below officialdom?s radar for much of the time, and so it?ll be very had to find anything on the family.

One check you might want to make is with the GRO in Southport, England, both for the marriage and for any childrens births (at least whilst Andrew was still a serving soldier). They have details of marriages and births & death of British military personnel, starting in 1761. Here?s a description:

"Regimental Birth Indexes ? may show several index references for the same person. As a soldier moved from one regiment to another, he had to register himself and his family each time for pay purposes. If you find more than one index reference for same person, provide all references and we will produce the entry with the most information. There is no index for Regimental Marriages or Deaths. However, for Regimental Marriages, if a regiment and a year can be supplied, a search can be undertaken. If Royal Artillery, then a battalion or battery will be needed."

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

The military pension that you enquire about would have been paid in sterling. It was probably ?6 a year. (A labourer?s income at that time was about ?20 a year).

Elwyn

Thank you Elwyn for your quick reply.

Do you think there is any value in visiting the parish cemeteries for Aughnacloy and Ballyreagh for the Givens name to see if any of his family stayed behind?

Can the PRONI records be accessed here in Canada (ie. are there copies of the microfilm available here)?

I have no hope for the Regimental Records unless they continued to keep records of medically discharged soldiers because the date of his medical discharge was in July 1810.  But I will followup nonetheless.

Since their oldest son, John, is thought to be born in Dublin, is it possible that his birth or baptism record is there and that they may possibly have been married in Dublin?

Karen

Karen,

Yes I would certainly have a look at the local graveyards. Check the Church of Ireland graveyards as well as the Presbyterian ones. Presbyterians were often buried in Church of Ireland graveyards. (There are various historical reasons for this). Bear in mind that only wealthier people could afford a gravestone and the vast majority of the population did not have one.

Speak to the local Ministers and ask if they have any Givens in their congregations today.

Yes they could have married in Dublin. I did check the Irish genealogy site for such a marriage, and for John?s baptism (but didn?t find either):

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/

However not all records from that era have survived and not all are on-line. There were several Presbyterian churches in Dublin but none appears to have records going back that far. You might need to check with the Presbyterian Historical Society to see if they know of any.

http://www.presbyterianhistoryireland.com

Some of the records in PRONI were filmed by LDS and where that happened, you can generally order  a copy of the film to your nearest LDS library. (Those for Ireland are in the LDS index under the British Film section, for some strange reason). However few of the Presbyterian records have been filmed by LDS. (Many congregations refused permission because they found the LDS practice of ?baptizing? everyone into the Mormon faith offensive).

PRONI??s microfilms are not on-line and it?s not possible to order films from them either. So if you can?t visit in person, you may have to use a researcher to do it on your behalf.

Elwyn

Karen:

My name is Scott Givens.  I live in Florida.  I believe I traced my ancestry back to the same Andrew Givens.  His son John had a son William whose son Walter was my great-grandfather.  My grandfather was Norman Givens.  I am wondering if you have learned anything more about Andrew's history in Ireland.  I always thought that my family came from Scotland but my research last year ended up with Andrew in Ireland and that is as far back as I could get.  I would love to know if you found anything else out.  Thanks and enjoy your trip to Ireland in the fall.

Scott Givens