Jordan and Martin family, Enniscorthy, County Wexford

Sue:

Welcome back to Ireland Reaching Out!

I will alert shanew147 that you have posted a new message.

Roger McDonnell

Thank you Roger.  Much appreciated.

Sue

hi - Cherryorchard is a townland, see this OSI map - the area inside the red boundary is the townland. The area is on the outskrts of the town, and not that developed - some still seems to be farmland, and starts in the east with a Cherry Orchard Bridge over a stream and an area to the west with most of the townland to the north of the road.

I think the only detailed reference we located which would narrow down the location any further than that is the listing for John Cowman on Griffith's Valuation dated 1853 which shows him leasing just over 39 acres of land from the Earl of Portsmouth in the townland - just over one third. The site reference is '1' which appears to be on the eastern section of the townland, see the map link on the Griffith's entry, and the only buildings shown in that area are here (c1840), which correponds to about this location on Google Street view.

Burials are difficult to locate as there's no system for centralized recording of burials and most Catholic Parishes did not keep death/burial records. In addition many people did not have headstones. The parish of Enniscorthy does include some deaths in their registers - these cover up to abt 1880, and appear to include very few details just date, age and name. St. Aiden's did have an attached graveyard to the north of the church by the late 1800s, which still seems to be there, but looks quite small considering the size of the town. I'll check the maps and see if there are any other graveyards nearby...

Previous Thread for reference : Relatives of John Jordan, born 1872 Enniscorthy

Thanks for the info Shane.  Looks like my cousin and I found the same location as you did for Cherry Orchard, but no address.  Guess I will just drive down Cherry Orchard Drive until I see something that resembles that barn.

As for the graveyards we think there are 3 possibilities - St. Aidens, St. Marys/Blackstoops or St. Seman's.  The only problem I have is i can't seem to locate an email address for these graveyards.  I was thinking perhaps i could write to each Church and see what they could tell me.  Any other ideas?

When you say the "Parish of Enniscorthy" registers which ones are those?  I can't seem to locate anything that i can search.  We know that John Cowman, my great great grandfather and his daughter Margaret, my great grandmother, both died in February, 1878 so hopefully they would be in these registers.

Anything else you can help me with or point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again for what you have provided me to date.

Sue

The principle Church of the Parish of Enniscorthy at that time would have been St. Aiden's - the registers are included on the National Library website.

I dont think any of these graveyards would have contact email addresses, and may not have records other than any included in parish records.

I'll check Brian Cantwell's survey in the 1970s/1980s - as far as I rememver he listed about three old graveyards in or near Enniscorthy - including the one behind St. Aiden's, the Church of Ireland graveyar, and one in Templeshannon (the other side of the river)

EDITED : there are death/burial records for John Cowman and daughter Margaret of Cherry Orchard in the Enniscorthy register dated 29th May 1878 - see here

I checked Cantwell's survey and he lists 4 graveyards in the Enniscorthy area - the one at St. Aiden's, St. Mary's Church of Ireland, a small graveyard adjacent to St. Senan's Templeshannon, and another graveyard just north of St. Senan's, which he lists as TempleShannon, which is shown as closed on the late 19thC OSI map, and appears to have been Church of Ireland. St. Senan's / Templeshannon RC was originally part of  the parish of Enniscorthy, and only split off in the 1900s.

Cantwell's work includes transcripts of headstones (generally those with pre-1880 dates), and he covered St. Aiden's graveyard and the other 3 graveyards in the area - but unfortunately no sign of any Cowman, Jordan or Martin headstones on his list. The full work is available in many libraries and there's a searchable version on FindMyPast. Bear in mind that many burials did not have headstones, so would not appear in these listings.

Thanks for the information.  I my cousin and I came to the same conclusion – these graveyards probably don’t have any records that would help me identify where any Jordan’s, Martin’s or Cowman’s might be buried.    We actually had found the death record for John Cowman and his daughter Margaret (I typed the wrong month by mistake in my last post – sorry about that).  I was hoping we might have been able to at least find something about them because they died in 1878. 

Thank you for checking Cantwell’s Book for me.  I didn’t realize it was available in most libraries and also on FindMyPast.  I checked online with the Library here in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada and they don’t seem to have it.  I will call them to verify that.  We knew about this book but didn’t know how to access it so you have helped me in this regard.  Too bad it doesn’t list any Jordans, Martins or Cowmans. 

However, you mentioned that he listed 4 graveyards in the Enniscorthy area around that time – St. Aiden’s, St. Mary’s Church of Ireland, the small graveyard adjacent to St. Senan’s Templeshannon, and the last one just north of St. Senan’s which he listed as TempleShannon.  I am assuming St. Senan’s Templeshannon and the one listed as TempleShannon are 2 separate graveyards?  Also, I believe the Church of Ireland is Protestant so I am thinking they would not have been buried there.  While St. Senan’s is close to Enniscorthy I think in all likelihood my ancestors are buried in St. Aiden’s. 

So I guess I am now at a dead end in trying to find where my ancestors were buried.  I think that when I am in Enniscorthy I will visit St. Aiden’s for sure, probably St. Senan’s and maybe Templeshannon, because it doesn’t appear to be too are north of Enniscorthy.

I would like to thank you  very much for all the time and effort you have put into this research for me.  If you are located in that area I would love to meet you and thank you personally.

Sue

I'd agree that the western side of Enniscorthy side, e.g. St. Aiden's is more likely than Templeshannon, as that's the side your family seem to have lived, although back at that time both sides of the town were all the one Catholic parish.

Did you see the death/burial records in the St. Aiden's register ? Confirms that at least some of the Cowman family are buried there, so possibly others... worth checking the Enniscorthy/St. Aiden's registers. Unfortunatly the register doesn't detail exact burial location.. e.g. plot reference.

There are two graveyards on the east side of the river, i.e. Templeshannon, one adjacent to the old Catholic Chapel  and the second slightly further north,  adjacent to ruins of an old church, likely pre-reformation. Older graveyards like this are often shared among denominations, so there can be a mix of Catholic and Protestant burials.

No, I didn't see the death/burial record.  I can't seem to even find the Enniscorthy and St. Aiden's registers.  Do you have a link I could use.  My cousin and I have been searching for this type of record for over a month now and we haven't been able to find one like this (and she has been doing research since the early 1990's).  

I found a site a couple of day ago that shows where all the graveyards are located.  I saw the Templeshannon one but I am not sure I saw the other one you are referring to.  Again I think St. Aiden's is probably the most logical choice.  

Thanks again for all your help.  Again, if you could provide me with the link to the Enniscorthy/St. Aiden's burial records I would greatly appreciate it.

Sue

Just yesterday I came across a link for St Senans Lunatic Asylum Graveyard after searching for information on the Quinn family Enniscorthy.  Is this the same place in the discussion?   

May be of some interest to you if you are intending going there and expecting a headstone cemetery.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/one-name-at-least-is-remembered-at-st-s…

http://www.margarethawkins.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Restless-Spiri…

Thanks for the information Clemmie.  I didn't realize that a St. Senans Lunatic Asylum Graveyard existed.  I found aSt. Senans graveyard on the Billion Graveyards site (the picture looked the same as this one) but did not realize it was for the Lunatic Asylum.  Reading Rose's story is very sad.  I can understand how that type of thing might have happened back in those days but it is still so cruel.  As near as I can tell I didn't have any relatives committed to the Asylum but I think I will definitely go visit this cemetery now that I know its history.

Thank you for this information.

Sue

I felt somwwhat compelled to locate the book online and order it to read more - no idea if there is a family connection with my Quinns but was very moved by Rose Quinn's  year of devastation and abandonment.   

Hope it will be of some use to others seeking Enniscorthy genealogy also Sue

I am certain it will be of help to others Clemmie because they certainly kept this very hush hush.  Hopefully now that Rose Quinn's treatment has been exposed more information will come to light.

Thanks again.

Sue

I included a link to the Enniscorthy (St. AIden's) registers on the National Library site in the previous reply - here's a direct link to the death/burial section, which covers 1815 to 1880.

I also posted a direct link to the page which mentions the entries for the deaths of John Cowman & his daugther Margaret Martin  of Cherryorchard 29th May 1878 - see towards the end of the left page.