Timmons/O'Doherty

I can’t see a marriage for Patrick Timmons to Helen O’Doherty in Enniscorthy in 1865 in the indexes to Irish civil marriages. There was one Patrick Timmons marriage there but he married someone else. Possibly Ellen Kenny. (Enniscorthy 1865 Volume 4, page 886, if you want to order a copy of the cert).

The name Helen is found in Ireland but it’s not that common and so Patrick’s spouse was more likely to have been known as Ellen. (Probably changed it to Helen when she moved away. Quite common). Likewise whilst O’Doherty is found in Ireland, Doherty was much more common. So she was probably known as Ellen Doherty in Ireland. (The O’ & Mc prefixes are detachable in Irish surnames, and were often attached or dropped at whim).

Thank you Elwyn

Alot of this is guesswork using Ancestry.ca...Ellen is translated as Helen in French and they moved to Quebec so that fits...Will chcek again and see if I can find Ellen Kenny....Could I have the year and location wrong --where do you suggest I look now?

Thank you.

Margot

Margot,

Well, civil registration of RC marriages only started on 1.1.1864 so if the marriage was prior to that date it won’t be in the civil indexes. So you could check the parish records instead. The records of Enniscorthy are on the NLI site (free): http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0593

However they only go up to November 1861. For the period from that date up to 1.1.1864 you may need to search on one of the subscription sites eg rootsireland.

I searched the civil indexes for all Ireland up to 1875 but did not see the marriage listed.

If you want a copy of the 1865 Timmins marriage, you can order a photocopy of the certificate from GRO Roscommon for €4 (euros).  http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply-for-Certificates.aspx

You have to download and print off the form. Then either post or fax it back to them. You can’t e-mail it to them. However if you want them to e-mail the cert to back to you, they will do that, so tick the relevant box.

Put the reference details on the form (anywhere). Don’t worry about leaving some boxes blank. As long as GRO have the location, name(s), year, quarter (where there is one), volume and page number they should find it.

Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church which should be on the certificate, (unless it was a Registry Office marriage). That church may be the place to look for her baptism and that of any siblings.

Can't seem to find anything about an Ellen O'Doherty born  in Ireland in 1830 - death in 1901---if I could find her county, I might be able to find a record of the marriage.  I believe her Father was James O'Doherty and Mother Mary Cahill.   Is roots ireland a good site--seems pretty expensive.

Margot

I found a record of a marriage of what I think are my Gr (3) grandparents John Doherty and Mary Cahill...but it is in 1865--my Gr Gr Grmother was born in 1829 so she wld have been 35.  Is it possible they married then?  I cannot find any record of the birth or marriage of my gr gr grandparents - on rootsireland...very frustrating...if they were from Northern Ireland wld the records be different?

Margot,

If the marriage was in 1865 then it should be in the civil indexes (which contain RC marriages from 1864 onwards). Though I looked at Enniscorthy, I also checked the whole of Ireland (including what is now Northern Ireland) and there’s no sign of it. Doherty is a pretty common name but Patrick Timmins less so. There’s only about 4 PT marriages in a 10 year period around 1865.

Rootsireland is a reputable commercial firm. They have a lot of church records but they don’t have them all. They have none for the city of Dublin for example. You can see what they have by parish by clicking on the county page and then on the option to see what they hold in that county. So that way you’ll know what’s missing. In addition to not having all parish records, the other thing to bear in mind is that a lot of parishes didn’t have records for the 1820s and 1830s. They either didn’t keep them or they have been lost. (For example, I don’t think there’s a single parish in Co. Donegal that has records for the 1820s). So the records might be lost or rootsireland haven’t put them on their site yet. Both are possible explanations.

Rootsireland has records for Northern Ireland but they come with the same caveat about missing records and records not yet on-line.