Thomas HARLAND (b.1860) & Mary COCHRANE (b.abt 1864) - Info Request

Hi David,

Have your tried http://www.proni.gov.uk/ or http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/default.htm ?

You might also try contacting:

Ulster Historical Foundation,
49 Malone Road,
Belfast,
BT9 6RY,
County Antrim,
Northern Ireland.
Tel: +44 (0)28 9066 1988
Fax: +44 (0)28 9066 1977
Email: enquiry@uhf.org.uk 
Website: www.ancestryireland.com

regards,

Thank you , cynoconnor, i think i will try ordering a certificate from the nidirect site.  --David

Hi David, I hope you still use this site? I traced my great grandmother (Edith Harland) travelling with four children by ship to the Kearney address. I used the Ellis website. The record says Mrs Harland, gives the Kearny address and lists her as Edith's mother-in-law. My grandmother was the eldest of the four children  that traveled with her. I think that Edith's family were from Holland but moved to Kimberley, South Africa to run a horse ranch, Edith was born in South Africa and some how met (I think) met their eldest son Thomas and married him. Maybe he joined the army and went to the Boer War and this is why he disappeared from the records? I'm hoping you have found out more about the family and Thomas Junior?  Kind Regards Kathie 

Hi David, just wanted to let you know I'm not ignoring you, I just have not found the time to write down what I know (although I have made a start). I can't express enough how thrilled I am at having found some kind of family link to my mums, mothers side of the family. Researching this has lead to nothing but brick walls for me. It's amazing how brave these people were, such a large family just upping sticks and moving to a new country, although I have read on here that NJ at the time had a lot of work in the textile industries so I guess being flax dressers, they took their chance. I went to google street view and took a snap of their house (not sure if it's still the same one?) But if it is, wow, yes, it must have been a squeeze!  

I found the passport photos of both Mary's using the information you gave me on my Ancestry account, which I only reopen each time I get new leads. Finding anything on the South African side of the world has been really difficult as although they have a census, once the stats are compiled the paperwork is destroyed. I think Garnet and Neville stayed in South Africa as I have found nothing about them and I'm waiting for the 1921 census to pick up additional information for here in England (long wait!).

I'll try and get the information I started finished today.

Hi, Kathie, thanks so much for replying with what, for me, is new information.  I guess we don't have solid proof of the relationship, but if Edith & the 4 kids came to 10 Highland Ave, she must've married one of the Harland boys, and i think the lost Thomas is the only one who fits the bill.  I went to the Ellis Island website and found the record you discovered.  Once they arrived in Kearny that must've been one crowded house!  In add'n to Edith + 4, there was Thomas (elder) & Mary + 7 of their kids -- 14 people.  You'll see from the info i write below that the elder Thomas died just a month after Edith's arrival.

I don't know if all hobbyists do this, but besides finding my ancestors i try to find their siblings and then follow those forward in time looking for distant cousins.  It looks like you might be one of them, the first i've discovered (or who discovered me)!  Anything you can tell me about Edith and her descendants would be appreciated.

Let me put a brief summary of what i know below and then invite you to email me if you want sources (i should have a source for every piece of data i record) & more details.  Most of what i have you can find freely available on the internet.  I did access a pay site for free from a library a few times, so some info might not be freely available.  I've only dabbled in this so far, and seem to only be active around the holiday season.  I can tell you that i do have a passport photo of Mary Cochrane Harland i can send you.  I also have some family snapshots of some of the brothers.  (I had no idea i had all these relatives.  I guess since my grandfather died young and my grandmother remarried we didn't see his side of the family growing up.  If you look at the info below you'll see 4 brothers died from 1950-1953, none of them very old.)

Here's the summary:

Thomas Harland
  b. 11 Sep 1860 in Belfast, Antrim, Ulster, Ireland
  d. 28 May 1920 in , , New Jersey, USA
  buried in Holy Cross Cemetery, North Arlington, Bergen, New Jersey, USA

Mary Cochrane
  b. abt 1864 in Belfast, Antrim, Ulster, Ireland
  d. 05 Jun 1947 in , , New Jersey, USA
  buried in Holy Cross Cemetery, North Arlington, Bergen, New Jersey, USA
  married Thomas Harland, above, in Apr 1887 in Belfast

Children:

   1. Francis Harland, 1888-1975
        married Martha and had 1 child that i know of

   2. Thomas Harland, abt 1889
        the only info i have for him comes from 1901 Census of Ireland

   3. Daniel Michael Harland, 1891-1951
        never married; lived w/ his mother at end of her life

   4. John Joseph Harland, 1894-1953
        married Margaret, had 2 children that i know of

   5. James Joseph Harland, 1896-1951
        married Josephine Bertsch, no kids that i know of

   6. Margaret Harland, Abt 1897
        found on 1901 census; suspicion that she died young, but don't know

   7. Samuel Harland, Abt 1899
        found on 1901 census; suspicion that he died young, but don't know

   8. Robert Joseph Harland, 1901-1950
        This is my grandfather.  He died when my own father was 9 years old.
        He married Margaret Ellen Langan.  Would you believe i don't know when
        or where (well, it's almost certainly New Jersey, USA, and before 1935)?
        "Peg" was born in Walkden, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom.
        They had two children, my uncle and my father (both living).

   9. Mary Harland, 1904-2001
        She had two children that i know of, both girls.

  10. William S. Harland, 1906-1994
        married Anna, had 5 children that i know of

Kathie, if you're still active, i finally went to the GRONI website (https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/search/marriage) and used their fee-based site to get the registration information for the marriage of Thomas Harland and Mary Cochrane.  Below is the text from the results of that search:

Registration details
  Registration number        M/1887/B1/2327/2/107
  Registration district        Belfast
  Place of marriage        URBAN NO3 R.C.
  Date of marriage        10th April 1887

Groom details
  Groom name(s)                Thomas Harland
  Age condition at marriage of groom    Full

Bride details
  Bride name(s)                Mary Cochrane
  Age condition at marriage of Bride    Full

"Marriage solemnized at the Roman Catholic Chapel of Holy Cross in the Registrar's District of Belfast No. 3 in the Union of Belfast in the County of Antrim"

Thomas was listed as a hackler, Mary as a spinner.
They were both residing in Ligoniel at the time of the marriage.

Thomas's father is listed as William Harland, a farmer.

Mary's father is listed as Jeremiah Cochrane, also a farmer.

They were married by Anthony Carroll in the presence of William Doherty and Catherine Logan.

In my original posts i had erroneously listed 6 Jun 1869 as Mary Cochrane's date of birth.  In reviewing my records i found i have no source that contains that information.  I am currently estimating her birth year as 1864.  Here are my research notes regarding her reported age at various points in time.

• Marriage record shows she was of "full" age (21 or older).  This means latest birth year is 1866.
• Census of 31 Mar 1901 gives age as 36.  This means if born April or later, birth year is 1864; otherwise it is 1865.
• Census of April 1911 gives age as 46.  This puts birth between April 1864 and April 1865.
• Ship manifest of July 1913 gives age as 44.  This puts birth between July 1868 and July 1869.
• Ship manifest of Aug 1924 gives age as 54.  This puts birth between Aug 1869 and Aug 1870.
• Gravestone has 5 Jun 1947 date of death and age of 77.  This puts birth between 6 Jun 1869 and 5 Jun 1870.