Ryan of Cahir

Hi Ted, 

Thanks for your message. You seem to have a good bit of information gathered already!

Have you tried searching throuh church records for any other information on the family? Most Catholic records are held locally. One website which may help you is the irishtimes website. They give an overview of what records are available in each parish. For Cahir, you can follow this link:

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showidrecords&CityCounty=Tipperary%20South&parish=Cahir&churchid=1097

Church of Ireland Records can be found at http://ireland.anglican.org/about/42 and http://www.nationalarchives.ie/

Also, have you looked at the land records pertaining to Ireland in the 19th century. In case you haven't, you can do so at the following websites:

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp and

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/   

Have you checked the immigration records in Australia? Generally, more information was given at the port of arrival rather than the port of departure. . The Public Record Office of Victoria has good online databases of settlers at www.prov.vic.gov.au Otherwise, other records may be found in the Colonial Office Papers of the UK National Archives, class reference CO 201. This class contains a wide variety of records, including petitions for assisted passages, emigrants' lists, records of emigrants on board ship, petitions from settlers for financial assistance and much more.

Some other websites which may help are:

The National Archives of Ireland http://www.nationalarchives.ie/genealogy1/genealogy-records/introduction/

The National Library of Ireland http://www.nli.ie/en/family-history-introduction.aspx

and Family Search: https://familysearch.org/  

If you have already tried these resources, perhaps you could try contacting the Bru Boru Cultural Centre, which is a genealogical society in South Tipperary. However, they may charge a fee. Here are their contact details:

Rock of Cashel,

Cashel,

Co. Tipperary.

Phone: (062) 61122    Email: eolas@bruboru.ie

I hope some of these help. Remember to post as much information as you can with regard to the people you are researching. The more information you post, the more likely it is that one of our volunteers will be able to advise or assist you. Also include information concerning which sources you may have already used so others may further your search.

Please be patient - as our programme has only begun to rollout across the island of Ireland and volunteers in some areas may not yet be organized.

Kind regards,                    

Genealogy Support 

Thank you Emma and Thomas.  The information you have supplied gives me plenty to work on.  That is interesting about the street name change.  I have been to "showmystreet" website and that way able to have a look at what the street looks like now.  

Cheers

Ted

Ted,

 The maps associated with The Griffith's Valuation will show you clearly the location of the buildings on Lease by Thomas Ryan at Kilcommon.

I was out in Ballarat in January and enjoyed my time there. A relation of ours ( Catherine O'Donnell) emigrated  from Clonmore to Australia in the 1840/50  and settled in NSW . She married a man called King in 1858 and was involved with the Gold mining at that time. Clonmore townsland is adjacent to Kilcommon.

Regards

Tom Hussey

Just a few points of information relating to Caher records:

1) The titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives have incorrectly filed the Caher, County Tipperary records with the Caher ,County Kerry records. I have advised the National Archives of this,so I hope they will correct same.However, the full records are available under Caher.County Kerry.

2) Market street,  CAHER as listed in the allotment books and Griffith's valuations is not the current Market Street.

The current Old Church Street was called Market street until c.1850. 

Ted,

There is a Thomas RYAN listed in Kilcommon in the TITHES ALLOTMEMT BOOKS FOR 1826  AND Thomas Ryan  with various tennants is also listed at Kilcommon and Market Street(current Old church Street) in Griffith's valuations c1856. There were Ryan in these areas up to recent times and are probably still in Kilcommon.

3) A suggestion for searching Griffith's Valuations is to put Caher as the 'placename' and the other details as below:

Location

County:    TIPPERARY, SOUTH RIDING

Barony:   IFFA & OFFA, WEST

Union:    CLOGHEEN

Parish:  CAHER

Townland:   KILCOMMONMORE, NORTH

Place Name: KILCOMMONMORE, NORTH

Place Type:  TOWNLAND

The output will be a list of all placenames for Caher and  by clicking on  placenames like KILCOMMONMORE, NORTH or Market Street  you can get the detailed record and associated maps. Some of the above information  relating to County,Barony,Union,Prish & Townsland is required to simplify searches on other Data sets.

Hello Ted,

I'm researching my mother-in-laws family and she is the grand-daughter of Anne (Mary) Ryan (born about 1870) herself the daughter of Thomas Ryan (born about 1837) and Margaret Burke both of Cahir. I believe other children were Johanne (1861), William (1863), Pierce (1867), Margaret (1869) and Thomas (1872).

I'm wondering if Thomas (1837) is a sibling of your Stephen (1840)?

Do you have any other information on the Ryan's apart from your original posting?

Regards

Dick Richards

Hi Dick

Haven't got much done on the genealogy in the past few weeks.  I am renovating our old house and making the most of summer weather.  So not so much time on computer.  Winter time and I will get into it again.

I don't know who were siblings of Steven but your Thomas is a strong possibility.  Especially when my Steven's father was named Thomas. But my Thomas was married to Ellen nee McChaley.

The only reference I have to a Mary Ryan is that a person of that name was a tennent on land in Tubrid Road.  This is my note which I have associated with Thomas Ryan:-

"Farmed land on the Tubrid Road, Kilcommon, Cahir which was leased from the Earl of Glengall who lived in Cahir castle.  He rented out five houses on the land.  Tenents in 1852 were Thomas Prendergast, John Maher, Margaret Callagan, Mary Ryan and Catherine Dwyer.  He also had a house, office and yard in Market Street, Cahir."

Looking for Ryans in County Tipperary is difficult as there are just so many of them!  I am told there is a saying: "You can't throw a rock down the street in Tipperary without hitting a Ryan"!

Good luck

Ted

In the course of following up some of the issues that Dick raised, I  located the transcript of Stephen's Baptismal Record. It shows the Baptism took place on 19 June 1837 but the mother is listed as Ellen Mulcahy.Using both parents the search shows three children Oliver (1833), Michael (1835) & Stephen 1837.

When you are doing the reconditioning concentrate on the tree roots rather than the Family roots.

Regards

Tom

Dick,

The information you have for Thomas Ryan and Margaret Burke and their childres is consisted with the records. However,Stephen seems to have had only two siblings,see note to Ted.

   T he records for Anne Mary Ryan shows that she was born on 25 July 1870 , the baptism was the  01 AUG 1870  at Cappagh, County Tipperary and her address was the townland of Doon. Her father is named as Patrick Ryan and her mother as Catherine Ryan. Her only sponsor is named as Tarah Mulcahy which is the same surname as Stephen's mother so there may be a connection through the mothers side.

I hope the above is of help in your search for roots.

Regards

Tom

Hi Tom and Ted, thanks for your replies. I have been remiss in not giving the background on why I'm searching for Thomas Ryan in Cahir.

My mother-in-law's grandparents were James Gaffney (Policeman) and Anne Ryan who were married in Clonmel on 7 Feb 1891 and the details on the RootsIreland Civil Marriage Record for Anne Ryan are as follows:

• Ann Ryan; Address Caher; Occupation house keeper; Full age (over 21); Spinster; Father Thomas Ryan; Occupation Gardener; Mother unnamed; Civil Marriage witnessed by Thomas Ryan and Margaret Ryan.

This lead me to the 1901 census of house 27 in Wellington Street, Caher with residents:

• Thomas Ryan; 59; Male; Head of Family; Roman Catholic; Birthplace Co Tipperary; Retired Gardener; Read and Write; Irish and English; Widower

and

• Margaret Ryan; 23 Female; Daughter; Roman Catholic. Co Tipperary; Read and Write; Not Married

In the 1911 census Thomas and Margaret are still in Wellington Street; details:

• Thomas Ryan; 70; Male; Head of Family; Roman Catholic; Birthplace Co Tipperary; Occupation Receiving a weekly gratuity from Lady Margaret Charteris; Read and Write; Irish and English; Widower;
• Margaret M J (?) Ryan; 23; Female; Daughter; Roman Catholic; Birthplace Co Tipperary; Read and Write; Single

Ann Ryan (who married James Gaffney) is in the 1901 census in Thomas Town, Kilkenny, with her 3 children with her husband James Gaffney shown with other Policeman in Saw Street. Ann gives her details as:

• Annie Mary Gaffney; 29, Female; Head of Family; Roman Catholic; Birthplace Co Tipperary, Read and write; Married

By the 1911 census, Annie Mary Gaffney is a widow living with her 3 children in Grange, Kilkenny; her datails are 42; Female; Head of Family; Roman Catholic; Birthplace Co Tipperary; Read and Write; Widow: Years Married 20; Children Born 3; Children Living 3

I'm hoping that some of this may help Identify Thomas Ryan's birth or baptism records. Any help or comment will be greatly appreciated as I don't live in Ireland and rely on on-line records!

Regards

Dick

Hello Tom,

Thank you so much for taking the time to research the birth/baptism of Anne Ryan and based on the Roots transcriptions it looks as though Ann Ryan born 1873 in Cappagh is the most likely cabdidate.

However, I think I may have to go to the primary sources to see if there is a Anne Ryan not in the Roots transcriptions who was born in Caher.

My reasons are that on Anne Ryan's marriage certificate she gives Caher as her address; she declares her age as over 21 (therefore birth before 1869/70): she gives her fathers occupation as "Gardener"; the marriage is witnessed by Thomas and Margaret Ryan and her age on the census would give her birth between 1868 and 1872.

There is also some circumstantial information from my mother in law. Before she died last November (aged 95!) she told me that she was related to "the Burke's of Caher". Also on looking through her mother's missel we found a memorial card for "Thomas Ryan died 5 Feb 1960 aged 88" (he was refered to as "uncle Tom") - this would make this Thomas's birth as 1871/72, the same time frame as Thomas Ryan born to Thomas Ryan and Margaret Burke in Caher in 1872.

As you can see this raises a number of questions that still need to be answered so I think a visit locally to look at the primary sources may be helpful. Not a bad excuse to go to Ireland!

Once again Tom I do appreciate all your help with this Ryan research.

Best Regards

Dick

Ted,

I have attached a marriage record of  Margaret Ryan and John Sheehan marriage in Cahir 1930. She was one of the Ryan family  that lived in Old Church street (formerly named Market Street) .They had a pub/grocery shop there but also had land at  KILCOMMON TOWNLAND  about a mile and a half from the shop. As far as I can establish she was the only one to get married. She had children and one of these still lives in the town.

I called to his house a number of times but did not get a reply. Friends assure me that he is in good health and that he is interested in family history.

I hope that he is a direct connection to yourself .

Regards

Tom Hussey