Looking for ancestors in Clonmel/Clerahan, Co. Tipperary

Hello Joyce,

The church records are online at two websites www.irishgenealogy.ie and www.rootsireland.ie.   I went to rootsireland and found an Alice Morgan born co. Tipperary 1815.   This is registered in Cahir district about 9 miles from Clonmel.

It cost about €5 to view but I think it may be worth it.

regards,

Anne

Oh Anne, thank you so much for this.  I will definitely pay for the look-up on rootsireland.  Again, I really appreciate this and I will post a follow-up of what I find.

Joyce

Well, I actually did two look-ups on rootsireland.  The first was the one you found, but when I viewed the paid version, the surname was spelled "Morigan".  I know this is probably just the way it was transcribed and is probably "Morgan" so I'm not ruling it out.  It says the date of birth was Apr 30, 1815, date of baptism Jan. 1 - 0.  Not sure what that means.

Parish is Cahir, Co. Tipperary.  Father is Patrick Morigan, mother is Catherine Connelly.  Sponsors are David Morrissy and Julia Butler.  Priest is J. Condon

There are 5 David Morrissy's in the area, different townlands, in Griffiths, which was done in 1851 there.  No Patrick Morgans.  But my ancestor Alice came to the US at least 5 - 10 years prior to that.

I then did a search on rootsireland for Alice Morgan in ANY county, and only 1 other came up.  I paid for that and it doesn't give a date of birth, but date of baptism is Apr 11, 1819 (my Alice gave her DOB as 1820), Parish Cahir, but County WATERFORD!  I can't find a Cahir parish in Co. Waterford, so I have no idea what this means, but I did find that Tipperary and Waterford share a border near Clonmel.  So now I'm very confused!

The father of this Alice is again a Patrick Morgan, mother is Ann Maher, sponsors John Buckley and Margaret Maher.

Any suggestions as to where I should go from here?  I'm leaning toward the second one, but the Cahir/Waterford thing has me perplexed as to how to proceed. 

I can tell you that Alice was a very strong and admirable woman and I'd love to honor her by visiting her area of birth someday soon.  After her husband (James Dunn) died leaving her with two small children in Louisville, she had to place them in an orphanage while she worked on a riverboat delivering babies up and down the Ohio River to support herself.  She lived until 1898.  I even have a photo of her.

Thanks again,

Joyce

Hello Joyce,

The worst thing you could do is to take your date of 1819 as gospel.  Try to put yourself in their shoes.  They left Ireland with no documentation whatsoever.  They had no birth certs, no baptismal certs or any form of identification.  They never celebrated birthdays so didn't know their precise age.  Don't let that discount a record.

In 1909 the old age pension was introduced into ireland and people had to prove what age they were .  They had to go back to church records to see what age they actually were.  The most common question that people have is why people aged more than 10 years between the 1901 and the 1911 census?  Most families have found that a g grandparent who was recorded as 63 or so in 1901 was actually 80 in the 1911 census.  There were very large discrepancies.   Up to 1909 people just guessed their age.  

Many folks who are tracing ancestors with dates from tombstones have found that these dates are frequently incorrect and it is other facts thast have proved the correct line of enquiry.

Morgan and morigan are the same name, just recorded phonetically.

All I can suggest is to look at Alice's children's names.  Children were mostly called after their grandparents.  So see if that line leads you in any direction.

The surname of Morgan is most unusual in Southern Ireland with just a handful of families of that name around here.  Go to the irishtimes website and look at how the surname is dispersed around Ireland

Regards,

Anne

Anne, thanks so much for the tips and the reminders.  I'm well aware of the age discrepancies, believe me.  I have 7 different birth years for one of my Irish g-grandmothers, with over a 10- year difference.  It makes genealogy even more challenging.

As for the naming pattern, it appears Alice Morgan Dunn only had 2 children, a son and a daughter.  The son was named James, as was his father.  The daughter was named Elizabeth, and Elizabeth's first daughter was named Alice (my grandmother).  The two baptism records I have show Alice Morgan's mother as either Ann or Catherine, so no help defining either of them.

Thank you for the information re Morgan and Morigan being one and the same.  Could be I'll never know for sure and won't be able to go back another generation with certainty, but at least I believe I have the right area of Ireland for her and look forward to visiting there.

Thanks again,

Joyce