Not Sure of my Facts

Michael,

Statutory registration of marriages started in Ireland in April 1845, save for RC marriages which were not registered till 1864. So if William Magee married Ann Irwin in 1858, or thereabouts, and it was not an RC ceremony, the marriage should appear in the statutory records. I can?t find it.

You wonder if they married in Clogher in December 1858. I can find no marriage for an Ann Irwin to anyone in 1858 in Clogher. Nor a marriage for William Magee in Clogher to anyone either. Could it have been an RC ceremony? If not, what denomination do you think it was? And what?s the source for the belief that they married in Clogher?

Tradition was to marry in the bride?s church. If Ann lived in Brigh, then that is in the parish of Ballyclog. So you might expect her marriage to have been there, rather than 40 miles away in the parish of Clogher, unless of course the family had moved. (For RC and Church of Ireland marriages, at least one of the couple must reside in the parish where the ceremony takes place). There is a townland of Carnteel as well as a parish of Carnteel, and so when you say William came from there, it isn?t clear which is meant. But obviously if neither he nor his bride lived in Clogher, I would question why they apparently married there.

Births weren?t registered in the statutory records till 1864 so the only way to find the births of the 2 Irish born children is again through church records, looking for their baptisms. There is no comprehensive on-line database of baptisms and to trace them we need to know the church and denomination that they were baptised into. So to do that we need to know where the family were living c1860. Do you know?

That the family were buried in an Anglican church in Canada would point to their being Church of Ireland, in Ireland. So probably the 2 Irish born children were baptised in that denomination, but it doesn?t necessarily mean the marriage was Church of Ireland. Ann may have been of a different denomination, prior to her marriage.

If you can answer some of my queries above, I may be able to suggest where to search next (or when you are in Ireland).

Elwyn

Hello Elwyn

    Thank you so much for the prompt reply .The info that I sent to you was from a family member and I thought it to be rather vague so I appreciate the help to try to unravel the mystery .I do not know where the family lived in 1860 . Ann may have been an RC as the 1881 Census in Ont. Can. states that there is and Older RC born in Ireland man living in their house with the family but it states that the rest of the household is Anglican .

As for William's birth place I do not know which it is the Townland or Parish of Carnteel .

Do you think I should ask the people in Ballyclog if they have any info on Ann Irwin ? That may help point us in the right direction .

  Sincerely Michael

Michael,

I suppose the obvious thing to do is to start by investigating the 1858 marriage. As I say there is no trace of it in the civil records and so if the information is correct, that points ot it being an RC ceremony. So you could look up Clogher RC records and see if there was such a marriage.

The Roots Ireland site does have a record of an Anne Jane Irwin who married a William in Co Tyrone in 1858 but he doesn?t appear to have had the surname Magee. You might want to investigate that partial match (pay to view). Be aware that Rootsireland doesn?t have all Co Tyrone church records on its site, and so this is not an exhaustive search of all possible records.

http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com/index.php

You might also want to try Ballyclog (which is in the RC parish of Donaghenry) and Carnteel (which is in the RC parish of Aghaloo). Copies of all the relevant RC records for these 3 parishes are in PRONI, where you can view them free. They also have most of the other denominations records, in case you want to widen your search.

You can try writing to the relevant priests and ministers but they do get a lot of genealogical requests, and so you don?t always get a prompt reply. Indeed sometimes you don?t get a reply at all. Doing your own research in PRONI might be the most convenient way of progressing this.

The only snag with RC marriage records from the mid 1800s is that they don?t contain a lot of information. Often all you get is the couple?s names and their 2 witnesses. No addresses, occupations or parents names. So you might find the marriage but still not know whether it?s the right couple. But as I mentioned previously, for RC and Church of Ireland marriages, at least one party had to live in the parish. Tradition was to marry in the bride?s church so I?d be looking for her family in that parish. You might find them under baptisms (which do sometimes have addresses/townlands). But if you know that Ann was from Brigh, what was she doing in Clogher? It may not be the same person. (Ann Irwin would be a fairly common name).

Elwyn

Hello Elwyn

    Thank you for the Reply . I wish I had of asked my Father about our Ancestors , it is difficult to trace Ancestors when I know so little . Without people like your selves to help us along it would be imposible . I will try my luck with PRONI . Is that a Website ? 

Sincerely  Michael

PRONI is the public record office in Belfast. Unfortunately their church records are not on-line. They are mainly on microfilm and some are in paper format. You normally need either to go in person or get a researcher to look them up for you.

Michael

There was a William Magee baptized at Carnteel but it was in 1833 as follows:

William, son of James Magee of [place name illegible] in this parish Weaver and Ellen [Collins] his wife.  Born January 14th.  Baptized January 20th 1833 by Archdeacon Stopford.  Registered by me A R Kenney Curate.

I don't know if this is your William or not but it does seem possible even though it's slightly out of your timeline.

The 1858 marriage record doesn't seem to be available.

Looked at a few records in search of Ann but didn't have much time so was unable to find it.

Veronica

Hello Veronica

It could be Great Grandad , That could make him 5 or 6 years old when he was Baptised . I do not know what the normal age for Baptism was in those days , but we do not know their cicumstances at that time .

Thank you so much for the help in putting the puzzle to-gether for us here in Can. It will be such a special day for us when we land in Ire. the Home of my Ancestors .