Clements/Kirk family

Your problem is that the births and marriage were all before the start of any records for that area. Ballynure Presbyterian church has baptism and marriage records from 1819 onwards. Too late for you obviously. If there were any earlier records they have long been lost. (Not uncommon in Ireland).

Gravestone inscriptions from Ballynure Old Graveyard:

This tablet to mark the burying place of the Ellis family of Straid & Prospect was placed here by direction of their last representative Jane Anne Clements Nicoley in Jul 1884. Tablet in opposite pillar has been placed there for safety.

Clements Erected by Mary McCurdy in memory of her husband Henry Clements who died on 02 Mar 1831 aged 75 years. The above-named Henry Clements' first wife Martha Simm died 09 Jul 1800 aged 48 years.

Clements Here lyeth the body of Frances Clements aged 82 years. 1812.

Clements In memory of Mary Clements, the beloved wife of Wm. Clements, who departed this life on 05 Mar 1867 aged 63 years. And an infant son. Also her son Andrew who was lost at sea in May 1852 aged 22 years. Also the above-named Wm. Clements who died 16 Mar 1882 aged 76 years.

Clements See Philips

Kirk Erected by Andrew and James Kirk of Ballynure as a small tribute of regard to the memory of an affectionate mother who departed this life 31 Jul 1824 aged 50 years. Also of their sister Ann Kirk who died 09 Jan 1809 aged 11 years. Likewise to the memory of their father William Kirk who died on 28 Dec 1841 aged 69 years. The remains of the above named James Kirk also lies here. He died 23 Oct 1844 aged 42 years.

Kirk Erected by John Kirk of Legaloy to the memory of his beloved wife Elizabeth Kirk who departed this life 02 Jan 1853 aged 62 years. Also the erector, John Kirk, who departed this life 26 Sep 1857 aged 77 years.

Kirk Erected by William Kirk of Clements Hill in memory of his son John who died on 26 Apr 1854 aged 27 years. Also his son James who died in Mobile, U.S. 1853 aged 23 years. Also their father William Kirk who died 14 Jul 1858 aged 67 yrs. Also his wife Elizabeth Kirk who died 03 Nov 1868 aged 70 yrs.

Kirk Erected by Robert Hughes, Larne, in memory of his wife Mary Hughes who died 16 Jul 1899 aged 70 years. Also her mother Agnes Kirk who died 20 Nov 1864 aged 80 years.

Kirk Erected by Jane Kirk of Hydepark in affectionate remembrance of her husband Thomas Kirk who died 15 Dec 1870 aged 45 years. Their daughter Sarah died 20 Jun 1865 aged 17 years. Their son William died 10 Aug 1865 aged 19 years. Also their infant children: John, Robert, and Mary Jane.

Kirk Erected in memory of Andrew Kirk, Marsden Villa, Belfast, who died 11 May 1875 aged 75 years. Also of Sarah, wife of the above Andrew Kirk, who died 05 Jul 1889 aged 65 years. J. Robinson & Son, Belfast.

Kirk Erected by Samuel & Jane Kirk of Clementshill in memory of their children: William Kirk died 24 Apr 1882 aged 15 years. Elizabeth Park Kirk died 02 Aug 1884 aged 11 years. Jane Kirk died 24 Aug 1885 aged 15 years. James Kirk died Jun 1892 aged 27 years.

Parents, for us let fall no tears; We early loved God's blessed Son, He took us home, and hushed our fears, And said, our earthly race is run.

Also their son David John died 10 Oct 1907. The above Jane Kirk died 16 Feb 1916. The above Samuel Kirk died 24 Apr 1916.

Kirk Erected to the memory of Alexander Kirk, Legaloy, who died 25 Feb 1896 aged 66 years. Also his wife Margaret A. Kirk who died 07 Jan 1900 aged 66 years. And their son James Kirk who died 08 May 1889 aged 24 years. And their son Thomas Kirk who died 01 May 1933 aged 70 years. Also Elizabeth, wife of above Thomas Kirk, died 11 Apr 1955. I know that my Redeemer liveth.

Kirk See Lorimer and McGookin

Source: http://www.ulsterancestry.com/newsletter-content.php?id=489

Ballynure was certainly heavily involved in the 1798 uprising. In general, the names of the rank and file supporters who fled after the defeat at the battle of Antrim have not been recorded. (No legal action was ever taken against them). A handful of senior commanders were tried and executed (McCracken etc) “pour decourager les autres”  and some middle ranking officers were held and given the option of a trial for treason (penalty death) or being allowed to leave Ireland with all their family for good, usually within 3 months. A pragmatic way of ensuring they didn’t participate in any future rebellions. Some of their names appear in the Black Book of the Rebellion (MIC575/1 in PRONI, the public record office in Belfast). But if your family remained in Ireland till around 1817, I’d say they were rank and file supporters and probably don’t appear in any official records of the rebellion.

Both the Clements and Kirk families have long histories in the area, with strong associations to Carrickfergus.  The names crop up repeatedly in the list of office-holders in the town from the 17th-19th centuries.  At least three Clements from Straid were also sheriffs of County Antrim between 1699 and 1721.

McSkimin’s History of Carrickfergus (available online for free) mentions Kirks and Clements, and has an account of the latter’s pedigree.  Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to have a John Clements married to an Elizabeth Kirk.

Hello,

John Clements and his wife Elizabeth Kirk Clements were my 4th Great Grandparents.

My mother did family geneology for years. she has since passed away, and I have all her research.

Any specific questions maybe I could help. My email is Sheba1266@aol.com

I dont have all the answers, but I'll sure try any way I can

Mary McMaster

Hello,

   John Clements and Elizabeth Kirk were my 5th great grandparents. I know nothing of them in Ireland so I'm very excited to get any information regarding their ancestors. I am a desendant of their daughter, Lily.

I would love to connect with any of my cousins!

Colleen Clark Bobrow

Lily Clements had two husbands, John Hyde (1), and William Rogers (2).  I have information through her great grand children. Ireland is still a question.

Are you still in touch with any of Lily's decedents? I would love to connect with them as we are definitly cousins. Thanks, Colleen Bobrow. My email is: beanie3557@aol.com

Hi!

I am descended from the Clements of Ballinderry co.Antrim. my research seems to show that they are descended from the Clements family of Straid / Ballynure.

I have a DNA match with someone who is a desecendant of Lily Clements and would love to try and find out some more about this branch of the family.

It would be amazing to know some more about the above mentioned bible and speak to any of my possible Clements cousins! I've been researching this line for many years and have aquired a lot of information so we may be able to figure out the link.

My email is donna.tustin@outlook.com 

Hopefully hear from some of you in the future!

Donna xx

Hi again, I now find I have a DNA connection to Henry Clements 1755-1831 buried the Ballynure Old Graveyard that you mentioned in my previous responses.  I reviewed information I received from Ulster Historical Foundation years ago showing Ballynure Connor diocese and Ballyphilip Down diocese having records before 1819.  Looking for any leads.  Thank you. Kathy

HI Kathy, I would be so interested to know about your DNA links - it all helps put parts of the picture together.

I have lots and lots of information on the Clements family who resided at Clements Hill, Antrim. Their family crypt can be found in the old churchyard at Ballynure. I have a DNA with the John Clement / Elizabeth Kirk line. But I'm not entirely sure which branch of the Clements family they have descended from so any DNA information would be so fantastic to see - I may well be able to help with other matches as well. I've not found any early church records for Ballynure as yet (the original church is long since gone and where the records went I've not been able to find any leads on). I've used wills and land documents from PRONI to put together the earlier part of the tree. I've not seen anything that says Francis is Johns father other than other people's trees so if there is any sourced information out there on this link it would be great to know where it stems from.

Donna - donna.tustin@outlook.com

Two links to Henry Clements are Nora Crammond in England (she lived in Larne as a child) and Paul LaBrash in Canada.  They link to Henry Clements 1755-1831, buried in Ballynure Old Cemetery.  John Clements and Elizabeth Kirk's third child and first son was William and their second child and daughter was Lilly.  If they used naming patterns that could be the parents names.  On ancestry DNA, Henry is listed 1/2 3rd great granduncle. It appears to me Henry and John were 1/2 brothers. There is a 23 year difference in the births, so I'm thinking their father was married twice. All guessing on my part. 

Hi!

I can trace my Clements family at Ballinderry Antrim back to Edward Clements d1627 at Straid he came over in the army from England in the 1500s - I believe most the Irish Clements may well stem from him.

On my heritage I have a link with a Tonya Terryberry on my heritage who is descended from the above Lily Clements you mentioned. The family sometimes follow naming patterns and sometimes not so its hard to say on that one. The only William Clements I'm aware of so far that far up the tree would be the son of Lt. Dalway Clements d1721 but I have no details on this William I'm afraid other than him appearing in his fathers will. The name Lily I have no clue at all unless maybe connect to an Elizabeth - all speculation. 

If you would like to compare results over on ancestry to see if we can figure anything further out between our matches I would love to do this, it would be interesting to see if any of the Ballinderry Clements family pop up in your own matches - My match on my hertiage I've not linked to any other Clements lines so there's always the chance it could be a red flag and we are actually related somewhere else.

Donna

I  am on ancestry.  I looked from DonnaMarie but couldn't find you.  Mary McMaster and Colleen Bobrow connect to my John Clements.  I also connect to Nora Cramond, Cathy Lancaster, and James McCartney.  Does this help?

Hi!

My mother Bernadette Clements has tested on Ancestry but I don't think you are a match - not surprising as matches are rare that far back with all the genetics material being lost in the reshuffles.

If you would like to drop me an email I'd be happy to screenshot my known Clements DNA lines for you.

Donna

My email is   itskathryn@aol.com   I have a first cousin named Bernadette.

Hi, 

I don't know how you have made out with your search but I wanted to add some information. I am a Clements descendant from around Dungannon, County Tyrone. My family lived in Killyman and Clonoe Parishes. We have found records back to 1769 in Killyman. Killyman parish is in Armagh and Tyrone Counties. My family was Protestant and Orangeman. 

There is evidence that the family was in Tullyniskan Parish prior to that. Tullyniskan Parish butts up to Clonoe Parish. My family may be related to a John Clements husband of Elizabeth Cornwall married 1721, who leased lands in Mullaghmarget townland in Tullyniskan Parish. A William Clements leased the townland of Magheramulkenny in Clonoe Parish around the same time. May have been brothers. 

This John Clements was an ascendant of the Clements family who became the Earls of Leitrim. Daniel Clements born 1625 in Croft, Leicestershire, England landed in Dublin and the rest of his family emigrated to Haverhill Massachusetts. He was the first Clements in the Earls of Leitrim line. This family were traditionally the M.Ps of Carrickfergus, Antrim. Daniel was a Cornet in Oliver Cronwell's army. 

I read many years ago the Clements family (Clement)  came to the area  now called Antrim, at the time of John de Courcy way back in the 1200s. From there Clementses settled all over within what is now called the United Kingdom. De Courcy gave land leases to his knights as a reward for victory and they settle there. De Courcy fell out of favor with the English king and was displaced by him. No mention is made of what happened to De Courcy's knights, although a settlement was maintained there by the English from that time on.. De Croucy later died in Ireland a poor destitute man.  

The Irish Rebellion took place in 1798 not 1796. The Rebellion was originally a movement started by presbyterian merchants (which does necessarily mean the the Orangeman did not also fight there,) ,Alternatively, In 1795 the Battle of the Diamond occurred near Loughgall, County Armagh. This battle resulted in the formation of the Orangeman on July 12th, 1795.  My research says there were 3 Orange Lodges in Killyman Parish in the end of 1795. 

I read all the posts in this thread and it does certainly appears your Clements comes from Ballynure. You could have already found the records to prove it by now. Your post was a long time ago. What stuck out for me was you said your Clements was an orangeman. I admit I know little about the origins of the Orange Order in Antrim. But it made an impression. 

I wanted to explain there is evidence that the Clements family came to Antrim area much earlier than 1595 long before to the plantations.  Also not all Clements seem to have came Ireland through Ballynure/Antrim area in late 1500s early 1600s. 

Mark Twain aka Samuel Longhorn Clements' biography says he was related to both the Clements who became the Earls of Leitrim and the Clements of Ballynure. 

The Clements of the Clements Hill estate were a prominent family, so had political power. As such its likely would have met the M.P. for  Carrickfergus. A M.P. did not have to live in the area they represented but would have maintained a residence there. Recently I was reading newspapers from 1870's from Belfast. Most entries concerning the Clements name were about the Earls of Leitrim. 

If you or anyone reading this is interested discussing or wish more information please get in contact with me. I'll help where I can. 

Best of luck with your research. Thanks for the opportunity to share. Have a great day.  Janice 

Hello Janice!

How lovely to hear from you. I've managed to trace the Ballynure Clements back to the Clements family of Carrickfergus who are as you have mentioned Ascendants of the Earls of Leitrim. I have quite a lot of information I found through the PRONI Archives regarding the family and its various branches. Through the Clements family I am also descended through the Dalway's another prominent family at the time in Antrim, descended through Scottish royalty.

I would love to chat further about the Clements with you, its always good to have many eyes looking out for the pieces of the puzzle - I've heard of the Clements coming from Croft but hadn't found any information to substantiate this so that would be really interesting to me to know more of (I don't actually live too far from Croft in the big scheme of things so I could head over that way to look for more information about the family)

My email is donna.tustin@outlook.com

Thank you again for your post!

Donna

I just had a look over things again, reading up some on the Clements line that came from the Croft as Im not familiar with them.

It looks to me as this is a seperate (though likely related back in time somewhere line) The Ballynure Clements line (and also the Glenavy Clements line) descend from Edward Clements of Straid, Antrim. His presence in Ireland predates the arrival of Daniel Clements. Best guess would be that Edward was connected to the Clements who arrived with John de Courcy as Janice has also mentioned but I have no information on his background. 

Also as an additional piece of conflicting information :-

The history and antiquities of the county of the town of Carrickfergus, from the earliest records till 1839 : also a statistical survey of said county by Samuel Mcskimin  p418 notes that the Earls of Leitrim are descended from Edward Clements rather than Daniel Clements-( this would tie better with Mark Twain's statement that he is descended from both lines if correct.) However the claim within this book that Robert is a brother of Edwards children doesnt seem to have a source, it is just a statement so could indeed be incorrect.

Plenty more digging to do as always!

Donna

Thank you for your continued pursuit of information on this family.  I still do not think Francis was John Clements father although some have added it on their trees on anestry.com.  I haven't seen any sources though.  The name Francis was not used for any of John Clements of Lisbon, New York, children or grandchildren.  You think if he was a relative it would appear somewhere.  I keep hoping for a source.  DNA seems to be the only lead right now. 

Kathy

HI Kathy!

I've looked and looked at this one but not found anything to say Francis is Johns father either - it could well be someone has put it as there is a burial at Ballynure for a Francis Clements and then everyone has copied it - unfortunately I cant place where the link is at the moment but will keep my eyes peeled for anything that sheds any light on this. I have the same issue with the Clements line over at Glenavy (which funnily enough also sticks on a John Clements). Im happy that the 3 branches are connected, its just sad that the knowledge is lost to time, hopefully one day we might find something.

Even with DNA this will be quite a difficult one to prove as the chances of getting the right matches is going to be so small. I would love to know if my own match on myheritage is definitely on the Clements line to prove this is the case.

I'd be very happy to look over any DNA tests from intrested parties as I'm fairly familiar with the various branches and might be able to spot something.

Im also hoping to get back to the Archives in PRONI in the future (it wont be anytime soon Im afraid as I currently have my beautiful 9 month old son taking up a lot of my time :) ) There could be further information in the Adair papers that I started going through but the collection is huge and I didnt have enough time to go over it all.

Donna