Toner / Barry family in 1857

See prior message and response http://www.irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/message-board/barry-family-street-t…

Mike:

I will alert our parish liaison for St. Peters parish about your message.

Roger McDonnell

Thank you, would like to have a local contact.

BR

MikeB

Hi Mike

I live in Drogheda and found your Michaels baptism on http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632564#page/113/mode/1up with sponsors Walsh and O'Brien but that gets us nowhere.

I searched this site http://www.jbhall.freeservers.com/ and got a number of Barry and Toner hits, Barry back to the 1600's but I imagine all are Church of Ireland but maybe not. Also a Barry birth in St Peters CoI in 1816 to a couple in the 62nd Regiment. See http://ireland.anglican.org/about/185

Also had a near miss in Dublin in 1861 in the Pro Cathedral a Patrick Barry born to a Michael Barry and Brigid Toner, close but no cigar, also a Garrett Barry and Catherine in the UK census for 1861 and 1871 in Lancashire but no Michael child or Patrick and girls also in family. 

Some Catherine Toners born in Louth around your dates but I see a marriage for a Catherine Toner in Louth and not to a Barry so difficult to ascertain if any right. I checked a subscription site but assume you have done this also.

The Dublin, Drogheda Belfast railway line opened in 1844 I think with the viaduct in Drogheda completed in 1852 to complete the line, before they were transferred by coach and horse across the town.

I can be mailed at stpeters@irelandxo.com if you want to contact me directly.

Regards

Pat 

Hello Pat,

Thank you for these results. I have previously found the baptismal record for Michael, and since posting I wondered if there is any mileage in trying to trace the witnesses, maybe there is some link, as I have no idea where the couple lived in Drogheda the witnesses may be living nearby, also possible Toner family. I have found several Toner families from the 1901 census, and also have an experimental family tree on ancestry into which I enter Toner families in the hope I'll cross reference to a potential ancestors of Catherine. Statistically there is more likely hood that Catherine came from what is now N.I. according to the break down of the 1901 census. Michael's batpism is the oldest record of location I have for this couple, the marriage would set me up in a new direction, as would the birth / Baptism details of Patrick. On the Barry side, the family have been very mobile and I have found a first marriage for Patrick in Glasgow, Scotland, but his son Laurence was born in Belfast a few months later, Patrick also moved to Dublin not many years later after his first wife died in 1898 . both wifes were born in Dublin and lived and died there, which re enforces the mobility argument.  I can say wrt you English findings that I have enough evidence in Ireland and Scotland that Garrett and Catherine never lived in England, Catherine died in Belfast, 2 Jan 1879 at 30 Smithfield Court, which I beleive is in the close area to the Smithfield Market that was there in those days, which is consistant with the family being traders. However what is a puzzle is why Garrett didn't deal with the death registration, had he already gone to Glasgow? Later Army records indicate him as next of Kin to the other two sons Garrett and Laurence who joined up in Glasgow some years later.

Interesting as it is I have moved away from this investigation, so who were Patric Walsh, and Ellen O'Brien are there local families with these names or are these people in a transitent population of traders moving around between Dublin and Belfast?  I may have mentioned that Garrett snr often crossed the path with the law, I have done brief searches for records as I beleive there is a Jail in Drogheda, also would there be street indexes plus or minus 5 years in Drogheda, the next location is in the centre of Belfast in 1864 when the next son was born.

Statistically the Barry's are more likely to originate from Co.Cork and area, but to date my DNA searches have not homed in on that area. The only reference I have is the drunken shouting that Garrett was 'a Tipperay man', but again nothing has been found to support this yet.  I spent a lot of time trying to make sense of the 1901 and 1911 English census data on 'place of Birth' for Michael, as he had entered Droughty resident, but later found out that the 'resident' was a secondary responce to his living status in England, and there is no Droughty, I could find in Ireland, a few variations and no indication of which county in Ireland, it could of cource be a mis interpretation of Drogheda, as I assume he had a strong Irish acsent and did not record the information himself. Patrick confusingly wrote 'Limerick' as his place of birth in the 1901 Irish census, and in the 1911 he claimed 'the city of Dublin'!  Michael could have been up to 5/6 years old if they remained in Drogheda long enough for him to go to school, are there any local school records available?

Does any of this give a starting point in the locality of Drogheda, for Toner or the presents of the Barry family1855/57-1862/4, your suggestions would be welcome.

BR MikeB

Hi Mike

I will be away for a few days, all Dublin church records are here for free https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ 

I see on Griffiths Valuation that Garrett Barrys are only given in Cork, Kerry and Limerick. It is possible that a Barry in Tipperary could be in a church diocese of Limerick if there is overlap, as in Louth we are church diocese of Armagh and a little of Drogheda is in church diocese of Meath, just south Drogheda.

Regards

Pat

Hello Pat, since posting some time ago I haven't revisited the site, you may recall my great great Grandmother on my paternal side was Catherine Toner, her husband Garrett Barry, and as far as I know Michael was their first born in July 1857, Baptised in St. Peter's.  This year I started a Toner surname face Book group trying to connect Co Louth and other families, as an existing earlier version operated by a Toner admin was no longer functional.  I have about 20 members so far and most have taken DNA test and some close relatives, and there are several grouping previously known, but now expanded, and my seven tested relatives are matching one group quite well. We need 50 kits before we can use the Gedmatch Project tool to help identify groupings which may not already be known.  For my own case when Garrett was resident in Belfast he seems to regularly get in trouble with the police, either drunkenness or violent behaviour, so it seems to me a man like this doesn't suddenly start this type of behaviour, and he must have been in trouble in Drogheda too, and would be an interesting confirmation of some assumptions about the couples life style and possible origins, as even now I do not know the family origins, time and place of a possible marriage, or the next son Patrick's DOB and place before they ended up in Belfast some time before 1864.  I see you didn't reply to me after taking a few days away in 2016, so would it be possible to have some help, starting with prison records at Drogheda and/or related newspaper articles, thank you.