Cremin/en

KWellNet:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

I located a transcription of the 1866 church marriage record of Michael and Ellen. The marriage was held in Donaghmore RC parish which is northwest of Blarney parish. Here is the parish register for Donaghmore if you want to look up the actual record  http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0043   I also provided the civil marriage index record below. The civil record will show where the bride and groom were living in 1866 and also the names of their fathers. You can write now to the General Register Office to get a copy or wait for the Irish government to add more images of civil marriage records online at www.irishgenealogy.ie  Right now images are available for marriages from 1882 on but the marriages for 1864-1881 will be added at some point.

I looked at the 1852 Griffiths Valuation head of household listing for Garrycloyne parish but there were no Cremin records in Knockacorbally.

I also checked the online Irish phone book which is a partial list of phone users and although there were almost 100 Cremin records, none appeared to be in the area around Knockacorbally. use the Residential TAB  https://www.eirphonebook.ie/

If you let me know your grandmother's first name, I can locate her civil birth record.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Date of Marriage:08-Feb-1866
Parish / District:DONOUGHMORE
County:Co. Cork
Husband  MichaelCremin
Wife EllenCasey

First name(s)MichaelLast nameCreminRegistration year1866Registered Quarter/Year1866Registration districtMacroomVolume5Page612 MarriageFinder™Michael Cremin married one of these people
Honora Kent, Julia Foley, Ellen Sheehan, Ds Hely, Ellen Casey

Hello KWellNet

Nice to hear from you! What a sad but fascinating story. You and I are not directly related, but our ancestors were neighbours in Knockacorbally. As you have discovered, the Cremins were at house #2 in the 1901 census, and my great grandmother Margaret O'Sullivan, née Creed, lived in house #3 with most of her children. She was recently widowed at the time.  

The eldest son of Michael and Ellen Cremin, Patrick Joseph (b.1870), married the eldest daughter of  John and Margaret O'Sullivan, Ellen (b.1873) known as Ellie. So their descendents would be distant cousins of both you and me. Patrick and Ellie's youngest son, Fred Cremin, used to have a grocery shop in Barrack Street, Cork, in the 1960s.

Like your ancestors, mine also married in Donoughmore (1872), so it could be that the two families knew each other before becoming neighbours in Knockacorbally.

Anyway, there are a few details for you. I hope your researches continue well.

Denis (in England)

                 

@Castlemore Roscommon, I can't thank you enough for the warm welcome and the kind attention you've given my search.  I have no experience in genealogical research, so your guidance is much appreciated.  Using the link you provided to the NLI records, combined with an approximate marriage date found in the civil records I found on Ancestry, I was able to find the original record of marriage for my great-great-grandparents!  Michael Cremin married Ellen Casey on February 8th, 1866.  So thank you.  [Though he didn't appear in Griffiths, Michael Cremin was listed as the owner of the house in both the 1901 and 1911 census, and is listed as a landholder in Knocknasuff in 1914 and then in Guys Almanac 1875 he was listed as a landholder of Blarney (Waterloo)... all in the same area.]  Thank you, also, for your kind offer to help find the birth record of my great-grandmother.  Believe it or not, just as she was physically separated from her Irish family by being tragically orphaned, the electronic record of her birth was also lost!  Using the NLI online microfilms, I was able to find it... unfortunately overlooked by data entry.  The good news is that now I am in posession of both her parent's marriage document AND her birth record.  I feel as though I am beginning the long process of reconnecting her lost family connections.  My great-grandmother, Margaret "Maggie" Cremin, had 9 siblings:  Michael, *Margaret*, Patrick, Eliza "Lizzie", Honora , Timothy, Mary, Ellen "Ellie", Joseph, Annie, and Kathleen.  If I can find anyone in the lineage, I may have quite a few new relatives to meet!  Thanks again for all your help... you've got me off on a promising start!

 

 

 

Hello, Denis,  How incredible to hear your description of the circumstances I only sketched out on an Ancestry family tree!  I had correctly connected My great-uncle Patrick with Ellie O'Sullivan, but how delightful to hear the cozy circumstances that led to their marriage!  To think that over 100 years after they lived next door to one another, you (in England) and I (in America) would manage to connect online... The internet (and IrelandXOReachingOut)  is truly an amazing place/community.  You mentioned their youngest, Fred... I wonder if you could confirm any of the other children I've listed in my family tree as part of their progeny:  Michael, Patrick, Ellen, John, Daniel, Joseph, and Fred.  Using Google Earth, I was able to view the Knockacorbally property.  It appears the old farms are gone... but there are some new structures standing in roughly the same locations.  Though houses crumble, roads and  foundations are often enduring. I am heading to Blarney next week.  I will let you know if I find foundations of houses #2 and #3 and will post photos, if possible.  Thank you again for your wonderful response, Denis! 

 

 

Hello again! You will find it fascinating to visit Blarney next week, and I suspect that by asking around in Knockacorbally and Knockasuff you will be able to track down the location of the houses and probably find some living relatives. I have some photos from the 1960s that might help you once you're on the spot: I'll try to upload them in the next few days. If you're able to share what you discover that would be very exciting!

Another family you might look out for is the Dilworths who are connected with the Cremins and the Sullivans in various complicated ways that aren't clear in my mind at this particular moment! But there are certainly still Dilworths in the locality.

I wonder if you've come across this website which has not only the Irish Ordnance Survey map, but also overlays of historic maps and aerial view. You can select them from the Data Catalog / Base Information menu, and you might find the historic 25 inch map particularly helpful since it shows where buildings were located about the time of the censuses.

PS. Your list of the children of Patrick Joseph Cremin and Ellen O'Sullivan agrees with what I have, except that I believe there was one other: Francis, who comes between Joseph and Fred, born (probably) on 14 Jan 1911. The civil registration section of Irish Genealogy seems to be having problems today, so I can't verify this from the register image. My notes from talking to the older generation in the 1960s say that he died young and unmarried. He doesn't seem to appear on the 1911 census though.

Denis7,  Thank you for getting back to me!  I I will be on the lookout for the Sullivans, Dillworths, AND Cremins... and will wander down Barrack Street in Cork for some groceries (and relatives)... these are all great leads.  While there I may also head up to St. Patrick's (?) Church in Donoughmore to see if that might have been the church in which our families were married.  The site of the baptisms, I believe, was St. Mary's (which I also hope to visit)... formerly the church in Waterloo which served as the Blarney Chapel.  I'll enquire while there for more details.  I appreciate you confirming the list of sibiling names... and for the addition of  Francis, of whom I was unaware.  Kindest Regards,   

 

Attached Files

KWellNet:   I'm attaching 3 photos of buildings in Knockacorbally that might make sense when you're on the spot: the one without people was taken about 1963, and the others probably about 1982. Fred Cremin is the one wearing a cap, talking to my father in the coloured photo. The younger man is Donal Dilworth, nephew of Joe and Eileen Cremin, who were apparently living there when the photo was taken.

I hope these help and that you enjoy your trip. I'll be in Ireland myself, but probably not having a chance this time of visiting Blarney.

Denis

Attached Files

Hi, Denis7 et al,     Thought I would post a follow up to thank you all for your kind help.  Denis, your input was of particular help... and I brought your photos with me for comparison once on site.   My son and I had a fantastic visit to Blarney/Cork.  I told the receptionist at the hotel that I was looking for a driver for a day to do some genealogy research in the area, and she recommended a cab driver who specialized in just this sort of work.  He picked us up the next day and was an invaluable resource... knowledgeable about history, the local establishments, and a gifted conversationalist (clearly, he had kissed the Blarney stone!).  Using census maps, along with the Google Earth images superimposed, we found the farm in Knockacorbally.  The driver, Jim, spoke with the woman living there now, who shared the name of a few Cremins in town.  We visited the library, the church in Waterloo (where the children were all baptized), found the remains of the school my great-grandmother attended... and then finally got a call back from one of the local Cremins (second cousins once removed)!  They met us at the pub and took us for the latter part of the day to another part of the farm (including the old farmhouse), as well as the family burial plot.  We had tea in the afternoon, and sifted through old photographs.  They were children of one of Joe's brothers and knew Fred quite well, too.  We visited the house where Joe lived, and they pointed out the old Sullivan house as well... though sadly, it has crumbled into disrepair.  I will try to attach a photo of its present condition for you. This trip helped repair the broken bridges between my great-grandmother's natal family and her descendants -a way of setting the record straight.  I couldn't have imagined a better outcome, and was my son's  favorite part of our trip.​   Thank you all again for all your help. 

 

 

Correction to Photo:  The photo entitled "Edward Martin" is, in fact, of Michael Cremin.

Hi KWellNet

I'm so sorry to have taken so long to respond and this will have to be very brief. However, I did want to say thank you for all the information and photos, and how pleased I was that you had such a wonderful visit. Congratulations on fitting so much in to a single day!

When there's a chance it would be great to hear more about your researches. I'm off to County Cork again tomorrow, but I think a visit to Blarney will probably have to wait until a bit later in the year. Meanwhile I think I've discovered your family tree on Ancestry so will contact you through that if you don't mind. There doesn't seem to be a way to contact individual members on this site unfortunately.

Best wishes, Denis

KWellNet:

I'm just seeing your May 5th message. I'm sure I overlooked it back in May. Anyway, great to hear that you had a fantastic visit to Ireland and Knockacorbally in particular.

Roger

KWellNet:

Forgot to mention our XO Chronicles site  https://www.irelandxo.com/ireland/cork/corbally-cork/history-and-geneal…   You may want to add your great-grandmothers story.

Roger