The Hunter Family

Dear Conrad:  

Many thanks for your post to the Ireland Reaching Out message board and welcome to the site!  We have a very knowledgeable volunteer who will be able to assist you.  

I'm copying this post to him and he should be in contact in the next few weeks.

 Thank you for your interest in the project.  If you have any further questions, you can email me at:  jhalloranryan@irelandxo.com.  

Kind regards,

Jane 

 

Thank you Jane. I look forward to hearing from them and to solving our missing link.

 

If your Hunter ancestors were Presbyterian then there are several churches in the Desertlyn area. Moneymore 1st & 2nd, Saltersland, Claggan and Magherafelt 1st are all Presbyterian churches around the area. The only one with records for the 1700s is Magherafelt 1st whose records start in 1771. (Copy in PRONI in Belfast).  If looking for graves you could try those churches Not all Presbyterian churches have graveyards and so Presbyterians were often buried in Church of Irelands graveyards, so try Desertlyn, Magherafelt, Lissan and Artrea Church of Ireland graveyards. Not many people in the 1700s could afford graves but if your family were wealthy there may be one.

Regarding Bleach Green Farm, few farms in Ireland had names in the 1700s. I’d be surprised if that was an accurate farm name from the 1700s. More likely the Hunter farm was near a bleach green. Most people were just known by their townland. The only two townlands in Desertlyn with Hunter farms in 1828 were Larrycormick and Ballymully. So they might be areas to start searching.

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/derry/tithe-applotments/desertlyn-parish.php#.WZXc2hR9eg0

Bear in mind that most of Ulster made linen and so there were dozens of bleach greens across the province. 

Thank you Elwyn. My ancestors were most certainly Presbyterians. The city I live in (Charlotte NC) was founded by Presbyterians and all of the original roads were connections between the original 5 Presbyterian Churches. My ancestor Humphrey Hunter became a Presbyterian minister after participating in the American Revolution and his memoirs are the best information we have to go by as to the family's origins. In them he states that his father was a well-known drapery merchant before his death (around the mid 1750s.) He never refers to them by name unfortunately but said that his paternal grandfather was from the vicinity of Glasgow and that his maternal grandfather was from Brest in France.  (Huguenots presumably and some have stated the surname LeCarm but I have no original source proof.) The story goes that the family ( five brothers - James, John, Andrew, Henry and Humphrey) along with their widowed mother left Derry for Mecklenburg county here in North Carolina where friends and possibly relatives had already immigrated. Although we don't know the widowed mother's name there was an Agnes Hunter who purchased land here around the time of their departure. My thoughts were that since church records are so incomplete in Northern Ireland I might be able to find the ancestor (Humphrey is best guest based on the 1740 protestant rolls) through linen trade documents. An aquaintance from Belfast suggested the Linen Hall Library. (https://www.linenhall.com/pages/genealogy)  Do you know if there are any grave records from these areas on-line. Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction...

 

 

Conrad,

I’ll start with the Linenhall Library. Firstly, it’s an excellent library. I think it may be the oldest library in Belfast and it has a fair bit of genealogical material. However it doesn’t have anything directly to do with the linen industry, though it may have books on the subject. It’s name comes from the fact that it was built across the street from Belfast’s Linen Hall, and presumably the founders thought that it would make a suitable name for their library. But it’s not a specialist repository of linen records, if that was what you were hoping for.

Most people in Ulster were involved in the linen industry at some level. The poorer labourers grew a bit of flax on their own patch of land and also harvested bigger crops on farmers lands. They did the really hard work, processing the raw material separating the flax from the unwanted parts of the plant (which often made your hands bleed), and then spinning and creating reels of thread. They then wove this into linen. Until the mid 1830s, nearly all linen making was done at home on hand loom weaving machines (such as are still used in the Outer Hebrides in Scotland, to make Harris Tweed). These machines were collapsible and could be taken with the labourer/weaver if he moved home.

In the 1700s and early 1800s, the weavers made linen in the winter months (when there was no labouring work on the farms) and this gave them a bit of cash (in a barter society) as well as ensuring they had a slightly better standard of living than other parts of Ireland where linen was not made. The cloth was taken to local markets and sold there. I suspect the nearest in the Lissan area was probably Magherafelt. The local Linen Hall was responsible for quality assessing and authenticating linen. A bit more about the linen industry on this link:

http://www.fergusonsirishlinen.com/pages/index.asp?title2=History-of-Irish-Linen&title1=About-Linen

Bleach Greens were used to bleach better quality linen white. Poorer quality linen, as used by the working man, was grey or brown, and remained that colour. (Waste of time dyeing it if you worked on a farm). Wealthy folk preferred white linen which was achieved by bleaching and drying on a bleach green and then by being hammered for some hours in a beetling mill till it became crisp and shiny. Like the linen most people think of today.

So you had a process where the labourers turned out the raw materials and wove small pieces of linen, which were sold at local markets to buyers who then sold it on to tailors and other processors till it became table cloths, suits or whatever.

Here’s a link to a history of Magherafelt which covers the 1700s and which might contain some references to the main linen agents in the area:

http://archive.org/stream/historyofmaghera00mait/historyofmaghera00mait_djvu.txt

If your ancestor made linen, he might well have worked on a farm or used a bleach green, but if he was further up the supply chain, ie a merchant, he would have lived in a more comfortable location, probably in a town. Not on a “bleach green farm”. So you might need to consider from his circumstances which end of the process he was more likely located. If he was a linen merchant, then he may show up in some records. A linen weaver in the 1700s probably won’t.

Here’s the 1824 directory for Magherafelt. It lists 1 linen inspector. No linen merchants.

http://www.failteromhat.com/pigot/0110.pdf

The Irish linen industry was not generally noted for keeping records.

I note that the family history describes them as having originated in the vicinity of Glasgow. That sounds reasonable. The main influx of Scots to Co. Derry was in the 1600s. I did wonder about the accuracy of the original statement that “they immigrated from Glasgow,” at a time when Glasgow barely existed, but coming from the Glasgow area - the description in this latest message - sounds fair enough to me. Unfortunately half the population of County Derry also came from that area or the south west of Scotland. There are no records in Ireland or Scotland that will enable you to make a paper link back to Scotland for someone who came to Ireland in the 1600s. However DNA might find a link. So consider that. The 1901 census for Co Derry has 487 people named Hunter, most Presbyterians. So it’s a very common name. And they are all of Scots origins.

The Huguenot link sounds very reasonable to me. Many Huguenot refugees came to Britain and Ireland after the revocation of the Edict of Nantes. Initially in Ireland they set up one or two Huguenots churches but later as they melded into society they tended to become Presbyterians. Their doctrines were broadly Calvinist and so that aligned with Presbyterianism more than with the Church of Ireland.  Many of them had been involved in linen making in France and so they brought those skills with them too.

There are a number of commercial sites with Irish graves on line. But they don’t have all the graves from every possible graveyard (of which there are probably 20 or more in the Desertlyn and surrounding area).  Some sites here:

http://www.irish-world.com/gravestones/index.cfm

http://irishgraveyards.ie./index.html

https://www.discovereverafter.com

http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/headstones.htm#gsc.tab=0

For a good description of life in the Desertlyn area in the 1830s, you could read the Ordnance Survey memoirs. These were compiled on the instructions of the Duke of Wellington (then Prime Minister) primarily for taxation purposes. So a bit like the Doomsday Book. They were compiled parish by parish, and describe the inhabitants, their occupations, pastimes, habits, they analyse the various different denominations by number, and report on health, schooling, seasonal migration patterns as well as permanent migration patterns. They report on the local linen industry and where people sold their linen etc. And so on. A typical parish contains about 20 to 30 pages of information and some drawings. They are well worth reading if you want to get a feel for life in the parish at that time. (It’s probably the most detailed contemporaneous summary that exists from that period). And it might mention Hunter families in it.

There should be a copy of Desertlyn parish on the bookshelves in PRONI’s main research room in Belfast. Or you may be able to obtain one from the Ulster Historical Foundation. https://www.ancestryireland.com

If you are sure the family lived in Desertlyn, I’d be inclined to focus on the Hunter families still there in the tithes. They might be connected to your family. I’d also search the Registry of Deeds records in case there was a lease, marriage settlement or other deed registered there, relating to your family. (Best to search by townland, so use the ones I found in Desertlyn).

https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/185720?availability=Family%20History%20Library

Her

 

Thank you Elwyn for your detailed help and for setting me straight on the Linen Hall Library. Aside from the Rev. Humphrey Hunter's memoirs and the Protestant Rolls of 1740 (Where a Humphrey Hunter is listed as being in the Parrish of Desertlyn making him the most likely father of our Hunter line due to the prevailence of descendants named Humphrey.) that's all we have to go by. I noticed in the 1830 decription of Desertlyn there is a Worshipful Company of Drapers listed in Griffin's Valuation. By all accounts he was a drapery merchant rather than a weaver. After his death the family could afford to immigrate to North Carolina and purchase 500 acre plots of land after arriving. Here's a transcript from Wheeler's "Historical Sketches of Western North Carolina" written in 1830 concerning Humphrey Hunter.   

REV. HUMPHREY HUNTER.

 

[Condensed from Wheeler's "Historical Sketches."]

 

"Rev. Humphrey Hunter was born in Ireland, near Londonderry, on the

14th of May, 1755. His paternal grandfather was from Glasgow, in

Scotland. His maternal grandfather was from Brest, in France. His

descent is thus traced to the Scotch-Irish, and Huguenots of France,

forming a race of people who greatly contributed to the spread of

civil and religious liberty wherever their lots were cast. In America,

the asylum of the oppressed of all nations, many of their descendants

occupy proud positions on the page of history, and acted a magnanimous

part in the achievement of our independence.

 

At the early age of four years, Humphrey Hunter was deprived by death

of his father. In a short time afterward, his mother joined the great

tide of emigration to the new world, and in May 1759, embarked on the

ship Helena, bound for Charleston, S.C. After a long and boisterous

voyage, the vessel at length reached its destination in safety. His

mother then procured a cheap conveyance and proceeded to the eastern

part of Mecklenburg county, (now in Cabarrus) where she purchased a

small tract of land, and spent the remainder of her days".

 

 

I've also done the ancestry.com DNA test.

 

https://www.ancestry.com/dna/insights/EDCCDA86-C4B0-4737-B6CB-63F0191D0…

 

Conrad,

I’ll explain about the Worshipful Company of Drapers. They are one of the London livery companies. They were the landlords for parts of Co. Londonderry. Indeed Draperstown is named after them.

In the early 1600s, the king was James I. (He was Scottish and was originally King James VI of Scotland. On Elizabeth Ist’s death he was invited to become King of both countries, which he did.) He was nervous that Ireland would be used as a back door for an invasion of Scotland or England. It was only a few years after the Spanish Armada and the French were also making threats to invade. So the threat was real. Ireland’s loyalty to the UK crown was seen as unreliable and precarious for fairly obvious historical reasons. So he decided to try and manage this risk by settling large numbers of loyal Scots, English & Welsh settlers in Ireland, who might be relied upon to defend the country. It was known as the Plantation of Ireland. In most cases James I ensured that big landowners in Scotland and England were given chunks of land, on condition that they would undertake to take a load of their tenants from Britain to Ireland plus build roads, schools, public buildings and defensive structures, plus ensuring that the new tenants were able to form a militia and defend themselves. These major tenants were known as Undertakers. Some native Irish retained their lands provided they signed oaths of loyalty to the Crown.

However in Co Londonderry, a slightly different approach prevailed. The King approached the London livery companies, rather than individual wealthy landowners. Livery companies were responsible for apprenticeships, professional standards, and quality assessment etc of the various trades eg Haberdashers, Fishmongers, Clothmakers, Drapers etc. They were successful and very wealthy. Indeed they still exist and remain very wealthy to this day. So, in addition to monitoring their own trades, they were venture capital businesses. That’s what they did with their profits. So the King approached them, and suggested they too could have chunks of Co. Londonderry on similar terms to the Undertakers. In return for developing the area, they made their profits from the rents they charged their tenants.  So you will find the London livery companies, including the Drapers, all over Londonderry. But they weren’t connected to the various trades that bear their names there. They were simply landlords. No connection with making linen in Ireland.

Here’s a link to a book which might explain bit more about the plantation in the county. (You’ll see the surname Hunter listed as Scots settlers).

http://www.ulsterheritage.com/forrest/londonderry.htm

From what you have described, your Hunter family were at the wealthier end of the market, so probably were merchants. Have you looked at the history of the Magherafelt area that I referred to in my e-mail of 18th August? It’s a long read but you might find them mentioned there.

I can’t see any mention of Humphrey Hunter in the PRONI e-catalogue. He might be in the Registry of Deeds records, but that would require a visit to PRONI or to the Registry of Deeds in Dublin.

 

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I was familiar with the Ulster Plantation and it's causes and effects but not all the details. Yes I have gotten about halfway through the page for the History of Magherafelt. Interesting history. As to James I I was actually in Edinburgh two weeks ago for the Royal Military Tattoo. Our Hunter Clan led the procession at the show's beginning. They housed us in the Great Hall of James I prior to the ceremony. I've employed professional genealogists twice (once in 1972 and again five years ago to search for the family, in particular Humphrey with no luck. I imagine they looked in the PRONI sources as well. I'm at a bit of a standstill but can't seem to give up. Let's hope there is something mentioned in the links...

Sincerely,

Conrad Hunter, Charlotte NC

In reading the history of Magherafelt I did come across a John Hunter among the list of inhabitants of the Parrish in 1752. I have strong suspicion that our Parrish is Desertlyn instead due to the listing of Humphrey Hunter in the 1740 protestant rolls. I did order the Ulster Muster Rolls and The Plantation of Ulster, c.1600-1670 and will search these for connections.

Elwyn,   

I have gotten the results back of my 64 marker DNA test through the Hunter DNA Project. I am definitely a direct descendant of the Humphrey Hunter Sr. ( 1719-1759) listed in the 1740 Protestant Rolls of Derry. Barony - Louglinsholin, Parrish - Desertlyn. There is also a James Hunter living in the same area ( Possibly a brother or father.) The story goes that my ancestor Henry Hunter ( son of Humphrey 1719-1759) stayed behind to marry his true love (Martha Sloan) before emigrating to Mecklenburg County NC. His mother (Agnes) and younger brother Humphrey had emigrated earlier just after the death of their father. There are several Sloans listed in the same 1740 Protestant rolls in the same Parrish of Desertlyn. David, Thomas, Margaret, Widow and Michael Sloan. So there's a good chance Martha Sloan was from one of these families. By the time of the 1790 Census in Mecklenburg County NC there are John, James, Thomas, a second James Sr. and James Jr., David and a second John Sloan residing here.  Also Henry, John, and  Rev. Humphrey Hunter. At this point I will continue to search in the Desertlyn area for more information. Hopefully we can tie our DNA to some of the Hunters still residing in the Glasgow area or Aryshire region.

 

 

Conrad,

Interesting to hear. Good luck with your research.

 

I am in the line below Henry Hunter in the family who immigrated to Mecklenburg County, NC. USA through Charleston on two voyages and one ship being the Helena...

I have not the time to read all this now but I came across this while looking into the life of the late actor Richard Todd whose mother's family where Hunters from Brecart Lodge near Toomebridge in Co. Antrim. This town is on the edge of the river Bann which i believe separates Co. Derry/Londonderry and Co Antrim. I think you should check this out as these pariishes are very close. Google Richard Todd's Ulster links

Hazel

I am related to Richard Todd and the Hunters from Brecart Lodge.

Samuel Hunter was born in Castleblayney. I'm not sure where his parents were born but they were married in Creggan.

If anyone knows a connection to other Hunters I would love to hear from them.

Kind Regards

Catherine

Hello. Checking in regarding the Hunters from Desertlyn, Loughinsholin, Derry, NI. Being a male descendant of my Hunter ancestors I joined a Hunter DNA project and took the "Big Y" 111 marker test. There's about a dozen of us who all descend from the Humphrey Hunter listed in the 1740 Protestant Rolls in County Derry. (born circa 1719.) (https://www.familytreedna.com/my/ydna/matches/detail-view) It's of the belief among members that according to traditional Scottish naming patterns of the time, James Hunter, also listed as a head of household, is most likely the father of our Humphrey Hunter. This cannot be proven yet but my research is taking me in this direction. I'm also going to explore our ancestors Huguenot maternal line in the parrish, based on the information in his memoirs. I'm 99% certain that Henry (and the Rev Humphrey) Hunter's mother was Agnes Hunter. We find her recording a grant for 100 acres of land along the Rocky River in Mecklenburg County in 1778 with Henry staking his claim in the adjacent claim. (Book 42, page 284. State Archives - North Carolina (Raleigh NC) Grant no. 181)They would have had to travel together to the county seat to file their claims. In his memoirs the Rev. Humphrey Hunter states that his maternal grandfather (Agnes' father) was from Brest in Brittany, France. I'll update as I come across more info.