Carton Family Drogheda Meath

Allan:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

We have a parish liaison for St. Mary's and I will alert him to your message.

Roger McDonnell

Thank you Roger.  I look forward to his reply.  Allan

Hi Allan

St Marys parish is in the diocese of Meath but is geographically in both Meath and Louth, I can find no immediate reference to the people you mention in the civil records commenced in 1864 for all people, nor are there any of the correct age in the census. There are 4 entries in the Calvary Cementry records for Carton but this graveard only commenced in 1902. 

St Marys parish is now far more populated than it was then, the area has been developed extensively. There are still Carton family in the Drogheda area. There are 4 hits in Griffiths for Legavoureen in St Marys, 3 in Hungry Hall Road and one for the Baymore Road (now Beamore). This is 1854.

I looked in the post 1864 civil records for deaths and marriages but none of the names jumped out but I am not sure if these people migrated so are not appearing in the records. 

There is a site on Louth here http://www.jbhall.freeservers.com/ There are lists from various graveyards including a nmber of Carton names, I can access the inscriptions from here as most are published and if not in my possession can be accessed in the local library. For interest there is a You Tube video Ghosts of Drogheda, old photo stills of the town.

The civil records are free online here https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ you must sign in. the church records are not complete other than a few counties. Griffiths valuation is here http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameS…;

St Marys church was built in 1820 but the records are varied but they have baptisms, see https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0960 It is not searchable but you can insert year and month if available. 

I will not be back online before Tuesday evening in all probability but if you can clarify if these people stayed in Ireland as there are no Cartons in the 1901 census to suit, there are some in Stamullin, in Meath about 8 miles from Drogheda near St Marys and some in Drogheda but the oldest is 50 I think.

Regards for Now

Pat

Hi Pat:  This family immigated to Canada.  Still researching how and when they came.  Below is the information I have that lead me to Drogheda

Title: Michael Carton, "1801 Ireland Census"
Web page: https://www.myheritage.com/research/record-10199-1086637/michael-carton…
Citation: 1801 Ireland Census
Under license to MyHeritage.com [online database]. Lehi, UT, USA: MyHeritage (USA) Inc.
National Archives of Ireland, http://http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/
Michael Carton
Country: Ireland; County: Louth; District: Westgate, Drogheda Town; Township: Loughboy
Notes: Michael Carton
Birth: Ireland
Residence: Mar 31 1801 - Loughboy, Westgate, Drogheda Town, Louth, Ireland

Title: Michael Carton, "Canada Census, 1851"
Web page: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MWTQ-5MY
Citation: "Canada Census, 1851," database, <i>FamilySearch</i> (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MWTQ-5MY : 3 August 2016), Michael Carton, Trafalgar, Halton County, Canada West (Ontario), Canada; citing p. 75, line 28; Library and Archives Canada film number C_11726, Public Archives, Ontario.

Name:    Michael Carton
Gender:    Male
Age:    50
Estimated Birth Year:    abt 1802
Birthplace:    Ireland
Province:    Canada West (Ontario)
District:    Halton County
District Number:    14
Sub-District:    Trafalgar
Sub-District Number:    117
Household Members:    
Name    Age
Michael Carton    50

I will check out the Louth Message Board also.

Thank you

Allan

Hi Allan

have been searching in St Mary's Register for the Carton children and variant and could not find any or on a subscription site, there are a number of possible but parents do not match and christian names are not correct either, also tried St Peters, so I am trying to fathom what church they were baptised in as your information is so precise.

You also sent info on a Michael Carton and it says census 1801 in Drogheda that is actually the 1901 census, Loughboy is on the other side of town to St Marys and is in the parish of Mellifont. The name Mcllend could be McClelland eithner way unusual here but found further north. 

So no luck to date but I will search another subscription site and ask Roger to check my research to date. St Marys baptisms start in 1835 so not sure how the earlier ones were found but it indicates they were possibly baptised in a neighbouring parish, have checked St Peters on hte north of the river, that is in the diocese of Armagh but county Louth.

Drogheda would not have been greatly affected by the famine in 1845 to 1847 but was the 2nd largest migration port at that time (it was an industrialised town) there are no records  of departures as they were to Liverpool mainly and it was internal in Britain at the time. Your ancestors probably went via Liverpool if you are checking for ships passenger lists.

Regard for now,
Pat

Hi Allan

a search of another database yielded no results in Ireland for the people mentioned with parents, I will go over over your query again in the next few days and the links you gave.

Pat

Thank you Pat for your efforts.  I am re-looking at my information with sources in Family Search.  Drogheda only shows up on Henry Douglas Carton birth place and this source validated that information was from an Obituary.  I have asked for a copy or source to locate this Obituary information for verification.    Will also keep you posted where I am at on this query.  Allan

I have found an Obituary (attached) stating this Carton family left Ireland in 1846 for Canada.  I have also found links to townships, Kilsharvan, Balrath, Painestown and Navan for Michael James Carton born 17 July 1866 with parents Joseph and Mary (Cleden) Carton (Cartin).  I see the townships all surround Drogheda. 

Can anyone help me with Church information.  Where would I start?  The family info is in my previous post,..... (2) and (6) reflect from order of family member in the previous post. 

Michael Mathew Carton - County Constable

.  Son - Charles Michael (2) - Obit attached

and Son - Joseph (6) - grandson Michael James born in 1866 in Balrath, Meath Ireland 

Appreciate any help or suggestions.  Thank you

Hello Allan, welcome back, start with a bit of useless information, was looking in McLysaghts Surnames of Ireland which says Carton is an English toponmymic mainly found in Ulster, while Cartan is from the Irish christian name Art.

The piece about him in the colourful obituary as a county constable is interesting, it is not a term I am familiar with, there was an Irish Contabulary at this point, later the Royal Irish Constabulary, there was also an Irish Revenue Police, disbanded in 1852 and interegrated into the Irish Constabulary. 

If he was in the constabulary and posted in Meath and the areas mentioned except Navan are all close to Drogheda, indeed also Stamullen where we located some Cartons in the earlier part of your query. The constabulary were never posted in their home counties indicating he was born elsewhere.

It says his wife was Scottish too so a look at the Scottish people website (subscription) may assist if he married there.

I searched Roots Ireland for Carton and automatically varients, and got 92 births between 1796 and 1806, no Michaels, one Matthew in 1796 in Antrim, one no Christian name in Granard, Longford, mother McVitty and I see another in Louth but not a name given by yourself. 

Surname spelling not correct.

Name:  Matthew Mccartin          Date of Birth:    

 Date of Baptism: 06-Jan-1796

Address: Parish/District: SHANKILL ST ANNE'S, BELFAST

Gender: Male    County Co. Antrim

Denomination:  Church of Ireland

Father: Matthew Mccartin          Mother:  Mary Mccartin

When searchng church records it is important to know what denomination you are searching. 

If he was in the constabulary a record of his joining and where from may exist, including a letter of recomendation from a dignitary or some such, to my knowledge what ecords exist are held at Kew in London, England, however there exists a very good and extremely well moderated Facebook page 1816 to 1922 Royal Irish Constabulary - A Forgotten Irish Policeforce, assume you are on FB so find the page and apply to join and put your query in the mix, there is a published history of the police by Jim Herlihy and another on the Irish Revenue Police by the same man, he is involved in the page, there is also a publication of all the members, just names and serial numbers and an email to the reference section of Louth or Meath libraries should elicit the information on the number which will assist in research unless a county constable is something else.

You can see where the various townlands in Meath are here https://www.townlands.ie/meath/ you can also of course search for Louth on the site, Navan is the main town in Meath, less than 20 miles from the other areas you mention. 

As subscription sites go, Roots Ireland has a larger collection of church records not found on other sites but it is not a complete set either, I think you should initially follow the police trail to see if you can locate a birth place or place or origin and see where that takes you. Also you may find some record for him in court reports of the Petty Sessions, Find My Past has some Irish newspapers but the largest selection pre 1921 are on the British Newspaper Archive, I find some county library sites can give a very short synopsis of a report when you search their newspaper archive, not sure all counties have the feature though, one I am familiar with has them back to the 1860s so may be tricky getting earlier ones.

Let me know if you want links to various county library or archives.

Good Luck,

Pat

Hello again Pat.  Glad to have your help.  I did facebook with Jim Herlihy and here is what he had to say about the County Constable:

The County Constabulary was formed in 1822 which meant that each of the 32 counties of Ireland had a constabulary force, For organisational purposes the county constabularies were part of four provincial police forces of Munster, Ulster, Leinster and Connaught. Therefore, Michael Carton, born in Co. Meath was a member of the Leinster Constabulary and could serve in Co. Meath. In 1836 the four provincial constabularies were amalgamated into one national police force called the Irish Constabulary, which in 1867 became the Royal Irish Constabulary. When they were amalgamated in 1836, the most senior serving member of the four constabularies was allocated the number one and others were added accordingly according to their seniority in the service before 1836. Since Michael Carton emigrated before 1836 then he was never a member of the Irish Constabulary. What is interesting is that I believe that I have found a possible relation, if not perhaps, Michael's brother, Luke Carton. I searched the index and I found a Luke Carton, born in Co. Meath in 1798 who joined the County Constabulary in 1822 and was serving in Co. Meath and married with his wife also being from Co. Meath, He transferred to the Irish Constabulary in 1836 and was allocated the registered number 71 and he was transferred to Co. Wexford, serving a sergeant Holyfort (near Gorey) in 1848. He was pensioned in 1851 and according to his pension record he died in Gorey on 15 November 1880, Also I found that there is a person tracing his family line on Ancestry.com. Also more importantly Luke Carton was recommended by Sir William Somerville in Co. Meath, the land rentals of whose estates are in the National Library of Ireland, which should shed light on the Carton families in Co. Meath. Sir William Meredyth Somerville, 1st Baron Athlumney (5th Baronet) and 1st Baron Meredyth was born 13 June 1803. He married, firstly, Lady Maria Harriet Conyngham, daughter of Sir Henry Conyngham, 1st Marquess Conyngham and Elizabeth Denison on 22 December 1832, she died leaving one daughter. He married secondly, Maria Georgina Elizabeth Jones, daughter of Herbert George and Maria Alicia Leeds on 16 October 1860. He died on 7 December 1873 and is buried at Kentstown. He was M.P. (Liberal) for Drogheda between 1837 and 1852. He held the office of Under-Secretary of the Home Department between 1846 and 1847. He held the office of Chief Secretary for Ireland between 1847 and 1852. He was invested as a Privy Counsellor (P.C.) on 22 July 1847. He held the office of Member of Parliament (M.P.) (Liberal) for Canterbury between 1854 and 1865. http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000253232

Service Record Luke Carton, Reg. No.71.

I do plan to visit the National Library of Ireland to see if I can find out more info on this Luke Carton  and Sir William Meredyth Somerville.  We cross the pond and set foot on the Emerald City on October 10th, so am trying to plan as best an Ancestry Hunt as possible.

The census records here in Canada says that the family is Church of Ireland as their religion.

Thanks again.  Allan

Hi Allan:  

If you know that the family is Church of Ireland, it may be worth looking at the COI library website, and even sending them an email.  The library is located in South Dublin (Milltown) and is easily accessed by bus and/or Luas.  Their website is:  https://www.ireland.anglican.org/about/rcb-library. They are open Monday - Thursday (closed between 1-2 pm).  They hold many of the COI parish registers, and a phone call and/or email to them would certainly be worth doing.  Enjoy your trip, and please keep us posted as to your research.  

Kind regards,

Jane

Hi Allen, Jane is ahead of me, Church of Ireland records were lost, about 50% in the civil war when the public records office received a direct hit and the anti treaty forces were using it as a munitions stores. Remaining church records are listed on the site above that Jane gave you. Another hiccup is I looked for Lukes death and there is no Luke dad in Ireland from 1864 to 1890, there are a lot of Cartons dead in Gorey, a lot for one family, see https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ click on civil records, church records are limited, of course he may have had a given legal name and a family name, unfortunately the actual entries are not visible for the relevant years so you must purchase them, can do online, you only need the cheap version, copy of entry as distinct from full legal cert, about $5 each. They are supposed to be fully free soon.

Now the interesting stuff, those were some names you were using, living locally to your places, I live just south of Drogheda, close to Kilsharven, about 10 miles from Kentstown, some of you names are big in polite society, Conynygham is the famile name of Lord Henry Mountcharles, who lives in Slane, you could visit the castle, there was a fire there about 15 years ago I think and while the castle is restored the belongings are new, except some paintings including one of a Lady Conyngham who was the mistress of the Prince Regent later George IV I think, you can do a tour of the castle and visit the new distillery, the family have a whiskey brand, think it is now owned by either Jack Daniels or Jim Beam, also can do a tour, think it won a best whiskey in the world prize some years ago, should give you something to talk about. Here is the site, https://www.slanecastle.ie/ it is also famous for open air concerts, Bruce Springsteen gave his first open air concert there, also U2 and Rolling Stones and any other major act you want to mention. There is also small hotel in the village, https://www.conynghamarms.ie/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8cmRvO3x5AIVjLTtCh0YHwpaEAAYASAAEgLuWfD_BwE that is just for the name. There are other places about, you are also near other historic sites there, battle of the Boyne, Newgrange etc 

This may also interest you http://www.navanhistory.ie/index.php?page=somerville 

I have a book on the history of Kentstown, no Carton's mentioned, however there is a pictue of the Somerville house with the staff from 1831 I think, some are named but not all, I got the book at a car boot sale (garage sale to you) so not sure it is about, it was published by the Meath Branch of the Irish Country Womans Association (ICA Meath) I see they have a Face book page so maybe you could ask them. (I could scan in the poor quality picture and post if you like).

I see a number of Cartons in Griffiths Valuation in the 1850s in Kilsharvan, are you familiar with this, it is possible with a bit of work to locate the site using the map features. 

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/ This is free site, about 1850s done. 

Feel free to ask for any assistance you may require and enjoy your trip.

Regards

Pat

Thanks for the recommodations and suggestions.  We will make sure to take the tours and send a message 1st, plus plan a visit to resesearch the Church of Ireland to see if they can help us with our research.

We will also followup with the Gorey, Luke Carton connection and see if anything becomes of this.  Luke Carton married Elizabeth Brownell on 22 April 1846 in Gorey, County Wexford. and he died on 15th November 1880 in Gorey.  This is from his pension information with RIC.

Looking forward to tasting some geniune Irish Guiness and Whiskey..

Allan

Allan, 

This is a very interesting post. My wife is the 3rd great granddaughter of Charles Michael Carton, whose obituary you posted above. We are considering a trip to Ireland later this year and were wondering if you were able to track down any info on Major Michael Carton while you were in Ireland. 

We look forward to hearing from you.

JP