McGurn/Magurn/Not sure how to spell it

Laura:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

There are a number of variations to that surname including Magauran. I searched for a baptismal record or marriage record for the parents on the subscription site Roots Ireland but did not find a record. More than half of the RC parishes in Co. Leitrim do not have records back to around 1842. Likely Bridget may have been baptized in one of those parishes.

Based on your message, it would appear that her parents also emigrated. Have you looked at Canadian census records to see if you can confirm that the family left. There are about nine Hugh Magaurans in the 1857 Griffiths Valuation head of household listing mostly in Drumreilly and Oughteragh civil parishes. But if Bridget's father left in 1850, he would not be listed on the Griffiths.

Please consider adding Bridget's story to our XO Chronicles site and possibly someone will recognize the family.

https://www.irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/history-and-genealogy/ancestor-dat…

Have you considered DNA testing?

Roger McDonnell

Hello Roger:

How nice of you to get back to me so quickly!

I did look up alternative spellings of the name - not sure if I did Magauran.   I will work on that.  

It actually was on a Canadian census form that I discovered that she came from Leitrim.  It was on a different census form that it said that she came at age 8 even though she was an adult at the time of the reporting.  Our census records only started in 1841.  I use Ancestry.ca to search for information.  I have tried to find Passenger Lists for ships in 1950 but I'm not sure where they came from or came to - from Dublin? Liverpool?, to Montreal? Halifax?

I had read about the Griffiths Valuation and I can see why they wouldn't be listed there.  Thanks for searching for me.

I actually did my DNA testing a year ago.  I was hoping that it would help to narrow down my search (and also tell me where to go to when I visit Ireland in September, 2018).   It confirmed that most of my DNA Irish roots are located in the Upper Midlands - Leitrim, Westmeath and Cavan.  With the DNA results they also list possible DNA matches.  I have tried looking at the family trees of the ones that have them and of the ones who have them for public view.  I will go back and look for Maguarans.  I have only sent a couple of emails to test the waters with those "cousins".  A nice lady from Australia replied but she didn't think she could be much help.  Another lady answered that she was just beginning her search and both her parents had passed away and so she didn't think she could help.  I will go back and look again.  I tried to look at the maps to see if any of them were actually in Ireland ... most are like me  ... diaspora.

My other great grandfather was a Cavanagh from Westmeath.  Another whole search that I haven't posted yet.

I will enjoy looking up the two places you mentionned in Leitrim on the map.  I have two days to spend up there and I'm not sure where to go since I don't have any relations that I know of.  I have booked a BnB in Mullingar for a couple of days just to get a feeling for Westmeath.  I hope to do the same somewhere up in Leitrim - possibly find someone to take me around a bit for day or so.

I will try to figure out how to go to the XOChronicles site and post about Bridget.

Thanks very much, Roger for answering my email and also for helping me with my search.  It is a wonderful service that you provide for people longing to find their Irish roots. 

Regards,

Laura Parsonson in Toronto, Canada

Dear Laura:

Thank you for your post and for your reply to Roger.

There is a very good librarian in the Ballinamore Public Library in County Leitrim who has an interest in Ireland Reaching Out and who might be worth visiting.  You can contact the library via the link below:

http://www.leitrimcoco.ie/eng/Community-Culture/Library/Your-Local-Library/Locations-and-Opening-Hours/Ballinamore_Library.html

In addition, we have several volunteers who may be able to add further information to assist with your visit.  I will copy this message to them and you may hear from them through this thread.

If you need further assistance, please let us know.

Have a wonderful trip.

Kind regards,

Jane.

Hello Laura,

I also help Roger and Jane with Leitrim research. It looks as both you and Roger have covered much ground. I just wanted to let you know that I will try digging myself over the coming days to see if I have any luck. Cleraly we would be looking for family related to yours who remained in Ireland after 1850. I often work with death records in Leitrim in the 1870-1900 range to build a backwards profile of pockets of a family name in a townland. Naturally, the holy grail in Irish research is learning the townland. The townland is the smallest unit of land recorded in Ireland and is essentially a home address for our family. Maybe we can narrow down your bunch to one or two locations.

Lastly, either way, Carrick on Shannon is a fine town to lay down the anchor for a few days as you venture about Lovely Leitrim. You will feel a sense that you are home.

Regards,

Kevin Flynn 

Hi Laura!

I assume you tested your DNA with Ancestry. There is a volunteer run site called Gedmatch www.gedmatch.com where you can upload your raw DNA from Ancestry and obtain matches with people who tested with other companies (and also loaded their data to Gedmatch). It allows you to expand your matching pool and there are some good analytical tools on Gedmatch also.

Roger

Hi Laura,

It sounds like you and I are on parallel tracks--probably not related but going through some of the same search frustration. I've been hunting for info about Mathew Shanly and Mary McGirl (multiple spelling options) who were in Toronto by the late 1840s (and Mathew died there in 1854). In the process I have learned a lot about a whole variety of McGirls, McGurrels, McGuirls, and so on. I've looked for every McGirr, McGuirl, etc. in Ontario and Montreal (including a number of Hughs). 

In the process I've gone through many, many Leitrim records with no luck (I'm assuming Leitrim to be the best bet for finding a McGirl and a Shanly in some proximity). However, I've come across the name Magauran often and learned it apparently can also be spelled McGovern. There were a lot of McGirls in Fenagh Parish before the Famine, but apparently Fenagh lost many of its inhabitants in the Famine (says Gerard Macastasney). One of the main McGirl families has an intermarriage between a McGirl and a McGovern (again, spelled a variety of ways). Patrick McGirl married Sarah McGovern ca. 1820. They had 11 or so children and ended up near St. Louis, U.S. (as did one of my McGirls who left Toronto, by the way). I believe one of their sons died in Chicago. So you might check Fenagh and Missouri (there were some other McGirls who landed in Providence, R.I).

(I also wonder whether the townland in Mohill named Drumard Magerraun has some connection to McGurns or Magaurans.)

Meanwhile, I have turned to DNA and to chromosome mapping in my quest. I'm using DNA Painter, and it's interesting, addictive, and in some ways more baffling than not using it. I knew I had ancestors from Waterford County and Ulster Scots from Armagh, but via MyHeritage DNA and DNA Painter, I'm discovering I have a lot of matches with people from Omagh, Co. Tyrone. Were they Ulster Scots? Were they McGirls who had converted from McGurrell to McGirl and moved South? (By the way, I would like to know what sort of DNA testing tells you (or someone) that you have midland ancestors.)

I hope Roger, Jane, or Kevin can help with my issues also (and I'm sure there's a Flynn in my ancestry somewhere). Briefly, my Mary McGirl was the daughter of John McGirl and Elizabeth Misset; she would have been born between 1820 & 1830, I would guess). Misset also has a number of variant spellings, and there were Missets who married Macgaurans or Macgowns and Flynns. The only part of Leitrim where I find all three names is Kiltoghert, but the only part where I find any Shanlys named Mathew is farther south (e.g., Bornacoola).

Susan MacDonald

Susan:

Hopefully, Jane or Kevin can help with your Leitrim questions. I did a quick check on the subscription site Roots Ireland and the earliest Mary McGirl baptismal record with father John was in the 1850s,

I've been using DNA Painter for the last month and your are correct that it is addictive. I have not made any headway yet but still optimistic. It helps having older relatives (one paternal and one maternal) who had their DNA tested.

You asked this question " By the way, I would like to know what sort of DNA testing tells you (or someone) that you have midland ancestors.) "     Ancestry DNA does provide some general statements about where in Ireland some of your ancestors come from. Mine says Ulster and Connaught which is correct. Also, staying with DNA,  are you familiar with Gedmatch? www.gedmatch.com  Gedmatch is a volunteer run site where you can load your My Heritage DNA data and see what matches you have with people who tested with other companies (and also loaded their data to Gedmatch) It expands your matching pool and new matches can also be painted into your DNA Painter profiel.

If you have not done so already, you may want to add Mary's story to our XO Chronicles site.

https://www.irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/history-and-genealogy/ancestor-dat…

Roger

Thank you, Roger. I intend to write this and some related stories  but will need some actual facts in order to do so!

I will try Gedmatch. I don't see where Ancestry breaks down various parts of Ireland; it simply says I'm 51% from Ireland, Scotland, and Wales. MyHeritage, meanwhile, describes me as 47% British and Irish and seems to imply I'm more Scandinavian and Spanish than Irish or Scottish. I can only assume it's somehow measuring the genetic contribution of Viking and Norman invaders.

Meanwhile, the County Tyrone mystery grows. Maybe one of my Presbyterian/Methodist ancestors from Co. Armagh migrated from Tyrone and changed religions, or maybe the Catholic Macgurrells migrated south from Tyrone to Co. Leitrim or thereabouts.

Susan

Hello Laura

There are a few different versions of the name in Leitrim

McGurrin, McGurin, McGurn and Gurn

Felim Gurn Electoral Area ManorhamiltonPartyIndependent

Telephone
Email   fgurn@leitrimcoco.ie Address Main Street, Manorhamilton, Leitrim

Maybe email Felim as well and ask him for help.

I would suggest you send you query to the Local Newspaper - Leitrim Observer and they would publish your query.

If you email it to - frankie.smith@iconicnews.ie he said he will put it into the paper for you.

Geraldine

Wow!  So many wonderful suggestions from different people ...  I will work on following up.

1.  Jane Halloran Ryan - I did send an email to the librarian at Ballinamore.  I like the idea of visiting there, too.  I would like to read some material they have in their collection before I go to Ireland.  I'll wait and see what she says.

2.  Kevin Flynn - Thanks for working on building a backwards profile to determine the townland.  I had never heard of townlands before.  Your idea to "lay down anchor" in Carrick on Shannon may be the best.  It looks lovely and as if there is lots to see and do.

3.  Roger McDonnell - I hadn't even heard of Gedmatch and so I will go there and upload my DNA from Ancestry.ca to see if there are any other matches with people who tested with other countries.  Looking forward to the "good analytical tools" that it provides.  I agree that all of this can be addictive.  It is a lot like taking a history course online.

4.  Susan MacDonald - The map that I was given by Ancestry.ca shows a concentration of my genetic pools in the Upper Midlands and it also says it.  It also says Ulster.  Funnily, I can see that you are looking for McGirls and I have some on my family tree.  I don't have a clear understanding of how they fit in totally, as yet.  I can see that my Great Great Aunt, Catherine Cavanagh, married a McGirl and so there are lots of them in that vein.  There are some that are even closer that used to come to family picnics all the time and were great friends of my Mother's (Rose and Wilf McGirl).  Not sure exactly how they fit in.  I will work on it some more.  I have a nice old picture of another Great Great Aunt (Maida Callendar) on the other side of my Irish family standing with Wilf McGirl in his WWII army uniform.  The inscription on the back is in my Mother's handwriting and it says Aunt Maida and her adopted son, Wilf McGirl.  His family still lives just outside Toronto.  I haven't seen them in a few years, I will try to connect with them again.  I have McGurns, McGirls and McGintys - lordy, it can be confusing!  LOL.

5.  Geraldine Buckley-Smith - Thanks for the other spelling suggestions for McGurn.  Two of them are new to me.  I took your advice and sent an email to Frankie Smith at the Leitrim Observer.  What a great idea!  I will also contact Felim Gurn.

Truly, I am really happy that so many people offered to help me.  I can't believe it.  

Even from afar, Irish people are kind.

Warm regards, 

Laura

Hi Laura P:

And another tip from a Leitrim Volunteer:

Check out the Leitrim Heritage Centre which is located in Ballinamore (where the library is that I told you about previously).  They may also be able to assist you.  Their website address is:  http://www.leitrimroots.com/

If you need any further assistance, please let me know.

All the best,

Jane.

Hi Jane:

I sent an email to the folks at the Leitrim Heritage Centre and we'll see what happens.

Thanks so much.

Laura

Hi All 

I am from North  Leitrim and I have just been following your posts. Balinamore is a good bet for some research. There is also  PRONI  Public Records of Northern Ireland  in Titanic Quarters in Belfast alot of old records are kept there as  Irish records were destroyed in a fire in Dublin way back. I have been there myself tracing ancestors. Still ongoing with that. I am from a place called Rossinver in North Leitrim. There are Gurns in Manorhamilton as you said also in town called Kinlough. There are Mc Gurns in Ballaghmeehan  and I know there is a Hugh Mc Gurn. You could contact the Parish Priest of Manorhamilton, Ballaghmeehan and Kinlough and they may be able to shed some light on your search.  Maybe post on FB that your looking to find your ancestors and ask people to share it.  There is a love Leitrim page that might be of some help. 

Good luck 

Mary 

Hello

Attached is the piece printed in the Leitrim Observer this week.  Hopefully you will get some response.

Geraldine

Wow - so many nice helpful people here.  I love that piece in the Leitrim Observer.  I didn't even know of the publication and am wondering if it is also available on-line.  My great grandfather (Edward White) was also from Leitrim - specifically Carrigallan.  When his wife (Annie Rourke) died in the US, he returned to Carrigallan shortly after her death with 3 of his 4 children to live with family. Sadly they were not there for long when he too passed away.  I only had the opportunity to visit Carrigallan for an afternoon when I was there with my family, so we didn't really get too far with family research.  We were helped by a priest in the local church who directed to some White headstones in the cemetery and I have this photo of what I believe is the resting place of my great grandfather and his parents Hugh and Maria White.  If anyone here has any suggestions for me - I would be delighted to hear (read) them.  Oh - and BTW - definitely catch a hurling match if you can during your trip!

https://www.leitrimobserver.ie/