Gaskin - Michael & Mary (Murphy)

Hello Vicky,

I found a copy of the original 12 September 1872 birth record for a Mary Gaskin, daughter of Michael Gaskin and Mary Murphy. Mary was born in the townland of Ballybar, Carlow, which was located in the Civil Parish of Clonmelsh. I also found Mary's baptism record showing she was baptized in the Tinryland Catholic Parish on 15 September 1872. Her full name in the baptism record is Maria Josephine Gaskin.

In addition I also uncovered the marriage for Michael Gaskin and Mary Murphy recorded in the Tinryland Catholic Parish on 27 October 1863.

If Mary is the daughter of your Michael Gaskin and Mary Murphy, I can send you these records in a followup reply. I'll also look for more information about the family if these are your ancestors.

Kind Regards,

Dave Boylan

Hello again Vicky,

I forgot to mention I also found the baptism record for Michael Gaskin, son of Patrick Gaskin and Catherine Byrne, recorded in the Tinryland Catholic Parish on 6 April 1834. I can send this to you with the other information.

Dave

Thank you all for those fantastic replies. I’m trying to apply the naming rule that many Catholic families applied and as it’s unclear as to whether I’m missing the names of any children it’s a little unclear. My Mary is recorded as being 61 in the 1901 census and that matches with Mary Murphy who married Michael in 1834. I have the following children listed with her in 1901 as Michael (22), Ellen (20) then John (my great grandfather) and his twin Henry (19). I think that we do indeed have the right people. Michael Gaskin is detailed on the marriage certificate for my great grandparents as deceased. The children are listed as being born in Liverpool so possibly Michael and Mary moved following the birth of some children but were there by at least 1879. My only concern are their ages! Mary would have given birth to twins at 43; possible of course. Any views are greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help.

 

 

I’ve just done some more double-checking and it all adds up. I haven’t come across any other Michael’s that tally date wise nor with a Mary. I’m pretty sure that I am on the right track!

You're welcome Miriam,

I'll get back to you within the next week or so with the information I found, and as much additional information I can uncover about the Gaskin/Murphy family, as I still have more research to do.

Regards,

Dave

Dear Vicki:

If you would email me directly at:  jhalloranryan@irelandxo.com, I will try to get our local volunteeer to meet with you.

 

All the best,

 

Jane

Hi Jane

I met with Bernie Walsh at Carlow Library yesterday and I was able to glean more details. This resulted in me visiting the place that my 3 x great grandparents living and Linkardstown graveyard. Thank you all for your help. It’s been most fruitful. Vicky 

Hello Vicki,

Thus far I've located the church marriage record for Michael Gaskin and Mary Murphy in County Carlow, as well as the County Carlow birth and baptism record for one of their children whose name was Mary. In addition I uncovered the baptism records for 7 of their children in Liverpool, England. Do you already have any of these records?

Also, do you have any of the civil birth records of the Gaskin children born in Liverpool? If not I can look for these too.

If you do not have all the Irish and English records mentioned above, I'd like to compile a full genealogy report on the Gaskin/Murphy family in narrative form, which may take up to a week or longer to complete, as I will still need to do more research for records in Ireland as well as in England.

Kind Regards,

Dave

That would be amazing. Only if it isn’t too much bother! Thank you.

Thank you for writing Vicki.

Since my last post yesterday I uncovered the baptism records for 9 children, rather than 7 children of Michael Gaskin and Mary Murphy, as previously stated.

The search continues.

No bother at all.

Dave

Hi Dave

I’ll be really interested to find out their names and how many were born (and survived) in Ireland. I get the sense that Michael & Mary had suffered numerous losses - but these are unrecorded. They didn’t have Mary until after about 7 years of marriage. I also find it fascinating that having coped with the Tithe Wars, local issues and famine that they decided to seek their fortune elsewhere. I do wonder if Michael left after his father passed away as he, as a younger son, didn’t have claim to anything? I know that he was still alive up until 1882 at least (birth of my great grandfather and his twin Henry).

I’m back in Merseyside now and I’ve been sharing details with my relatives. Utterly fascinating. I’m a History teacher and I will be inserting a segment about Ireland when looking at Empire. I may even run a Family History Club for a few weeks to help get people started. There are many, many people with Irish roots in Merseyside!!

Hello Vicki,

Many thanks for writing back again.

Except for Mary, all the baptism and or birth records and birth indexes I found for the Gaskin children too place in Liverpool. You may already have some or all of this information, but in case you don't I'll send everything I found, which will include copies of original records, birth indexes or transcriptions, and map locations where the Gaskins had lived in Ireland and in Liverpool.

I also uncovered what I believe is the marriage record for Michael Gaskin's parents and the baptism records for 7 of his siblings in County Carlow. I am now in the process of seeing if I can find Mary Murphy's baptism, as well as the marriage of her parents, and the baptisms for any of her siblings.

In my reply, I'll send you information about where I found the records at the various websites, most of which are free, but some are also subscription or require payment. You can then access the same websites I did and see if you can locate further information that I may have missed.

Concerning history, in college, I majored in English Lit and minored in history. I especially like American (I live in the U.S.) and British history, and only this past week I've been reading about the tragic Franklin expedition to North America in search of the Northwest Passage. It's been fascinating reading about this, especially when all the crew on board the HMS Terror and HMS Erebus perished in their search for the Passage in the 1840s.

I've also been especially interested in Dr. John Snow, who during the Cholera epidemic in London in the 1850s, was one of the first to discover, (in Britain at least), that cholera was not caused by airborne particulates, but by contaminated water. If you ever have time, read Steven Johnson’s book, called "The Ghost Map." See: https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Map-Londons-Terrifying-Epidemic/dp/1594482…

One of my favorite books about the Irish Famine is by a Welsh lady of Irish heritage, Cecil Woodham Smith, who wrote "The Great Hunger: Ireland: 1845-1849." See: https://www.amazon.com/Great-Hunger-Ireland-1845-1849/dp/014014515X

Also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecil_Woodham-Smith

In the meantime I'll be able to do a lot more research about the Gaskin family this coming weekend.

Thank you again for writing Vicki,

Dave

I’ll have a look at the book - I’m a History teacher and I’ve been really enjoying reflecting upon what life must have like during that time and the motivations to emigrate. I think some of Michael’s siblings may have gone too. I think there’s an Ellen and she may have moved to New Zealand. I’ll try to see if any went to America too. Thank you for all your help!

 

 

Attached Files

Hello Vicki,

I found the church marriage transcription for Michael Gaskin and Mary Murphy at the Find My Past (FMP) website, which shows the couple were married in the Tinryland Catholic Parish, County Carlow, on 27 October 1863. In this record Michael’s surname is erroneously transcribed as, “Gackin.”
FMP is mainly a subscription-based or Pay-As-You-Go website, but does not charge to search Catholic baptisms, marriages, and available church burial transcriptions for all of Ireland for much of the 19th century.

The search engine for the FMP baptism transcriptions can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/jnmqmuv
The search engine for Catholic marriages can be accessed at: http://tinyurl.com/jzylkjy
For Catholic Parish burial transcriptions go to the search engine at: http://tinyurl.com/j9qe5p9

However, not all Catholic Church Parishes in Ireland kept burial records.

In turn, and most importantly, attached to the FMP baptism, marriage, and burial transcriptions are links that will take you to copies of the original parish registers held by the National Library of Ireland in Dublin.

I haven’t included the full marriage transcription for Michael and Mary in this reply as it is lengthy and also under copyright. But I have provided a link so that you can access the transcription at: https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FMAR%2F1275456%2F1

In the transcription you’ll see that the address of Michael is “Linkerstown,” (actually spelled Linkardstown) and that his parents were “Patrietic Gackin” and Catherine Byrne. Mary’s father was Patrick Murphy while her mother’s first name was Catherine, with no maiden name recorded. Mary’s address is Tinryland. Attached to the transcription is the link which takes you to the Tinryland Catholic Parish registers held by the National Library of Ireland on Kildare Street in Dublin.

From this link you can access the particular Tinryland marriage register page for Michael and Mary. This page can be found at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634588#page/9/mode/1up

There are two facing pages to the marriage register. Marriages for each couple span both pages. The headings in the marriage register are in Latin, as are first names of the married couples.

You can enlarge the page by means of round icons in the upper center/ right of the screen. The icons are white with green backgrounds. You can also access the full-screen function by clicking on the last icon on the right with the two arrows pointing northeast and southwest.

The marriage for Michael and Mary is at Number 72 in the register. To the right of Michael’s name you’ll see the names of his parents, Patrick Gaskin and Catherine Byrne. Their address is also “Linkerstown.”

To the right of Mary’s name you’ll see the names of her parents, Patrick Murphy and Catherine. You’ll also see that a large ink blot, unfortunately, covers Catherine’s maiden name. The address of Patrick and Catherine Murphy is Ballybar.

To the right of the parents’ names, still on the left-hand register page, is a column that asks if there has been a denunciation to the marriage, that is, if there was an impediment to the marriage. There doesn’t appear to be a denunciation.

The first column of the right-hand page asks in Latin if there is an “Impedimentum,” to the marriage. Again, there does not appear to be an impediment to the marriage. The impedimentum question may pertain to a blood relation between the marriage couple, such as cousins.

Moving to the right is the month and the day of the marriage, “Oct 27,” followed by the name of the parish priest who married Michael and Mary. His name was S. Conlon. To the right of the name of the priest are the names of the witnesses. They were Patritius (Patrick) Haydon and Margarita Walshe, both residing in Castletown.

At the time of marriage Michael was living in Linkardstown and Mary in Tinryland. A Google Map shows that the Linkarstown and Tintyland are only 1.1 miles away from each other. See: https://is.gd/IHCEkR

For a Google Street View of Linksrdstown go to: https://is.gd/Hf813g

The Catholic Church where Michael and Mary were married is still standing in Tinryland. The church is called St. Joseph’s. For a Google Street View of the church, see: https://is.gd/MEctFJ

According to the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland website, St. Joseph’s Catholic Church in “Tinriland,” was built circa 1820. See the Buildings of Ireland link at: https://is.gd/gPFfUd

For a Buildings of Ireland map showing the location of St. Joseph’s Church and graveyard in Tinriland, go to:
http://webgis.buildingsofireland.ie/HistoricEnvironment/?REG_NO=10300740

For an Ordnance Survey Map compiled between 1837 and 1841of the R.C. Chapel in Tinriland, go to the GeoHive website link at: http://bit.ly/2L5aYC3

For an Ordnance Survey Map of St. Joseph’s R.C. Church and graveyard in Tinriland from the 1888 to 1913 time period, go to the GeoHive link at: http://bit.ly/2Zg36rd

I didn’t find that Michael and Mary had any children in Ireland in the 1860s. But, their first child, as far as I could determine, was Catherine, who was born in Liverpool on 8 October 1864. Her date of birth is found in her baptism record. She was baptized in St. Alban’s Church, Liverpool, on 11 October 1864.

Below is the baptism index for Catherine “Gasken” from Ancestry.com:

Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1741-1916
Name: Catherina Gasken
[Katherine Gasken]
Age: 0
Birth Date: 8 Oct 1864
Baptism Date: 11 Oct 1864
Baptism Place: St Alban's Church, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Michaelis Gasken
Mother: Mariea Murphy
Source Citation
Liverpool Record Office; Liverpool, England; Liverpool Catholic Parish Registers; Reference Number: 282 ALB/1/3
____

Accompanying the Ancestry.com index is a link that takes you to the original St. Alban’s baptism register, which is attached to this reply. Catherina’s entry in the register is the second to the last entry at Number 324. Unfortunately, the baptism register does not record where the Gaskin family had been living in Liverpool when Catherine was baptized.

As you’ll see, the St. Alban’s baptism register is in Latin. The entries in the register are difficult to read because of the handwriting. For example, the name of the priest who baptized Catherine appears to be Jacob Hickey, though I could be wrong about that. No godfather is recorded for Catherine, but the first name of her godmother was Maria, whose last name begins with Mc.

A Google Map of Liverpool shows that St Alban’s Church is located in Athol Street, just off Great Howard Street, east of the Mersey: https://is.gd/byU96Y

A Google Street View from 2014 shows that the structure that once was St Albans is no longer a church, but a venue for what appears to be wall climbing: https://is.gd/4yK6QW

Information from the Historic England site shows that Saint Alban’s was constructed in 1849: See: https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1356259

The baptism record for Catherine Gaskin shows she was born on 8 October 1864. There should also be a civil registration birth record for her. You can order her birth record for the General Register Office (GRO) website at: https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

To order the birth record from the GRO you’ll first have to register. Registration is free. You’ll then have to generate a birth index for Catherine before ordering the record. The index for Catherine will look similar to this:

Name: GASKIN, CATHERINE
Mother's Maiden Surname: MURPHY
GRO Reference: 1864 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 168
____

A Full certificate with the GRO index reference supplied is £11.00. This cert, I believe, can be used for legal purposes, but if you just want a birth record for genealogical purposes, you can order the birth record as a PDF, that is a copy, for £7.00. The GRO index reference for Catherine is: 1864, December quarter, plus the volume and page number where her birth record can be found in the GRO registers. The Volume is 08B. The Page Number is 168.

Catherine’s birth record will likely tell you where the family had been living at the time of her birth as well as the occupation of her father.

The following is the baptism index for Michael Gaskin, son of Michael Gaskin and Maria Murphy. Michael was born on 27 July 1866 and baptized in St. Alban’s Church, Liverpool, on 1 September 1866. The index is from Ancestry.com:

Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1741-1916
Name: Michael Gaskin
Age: 0
Birth Date: 27 Jul 1866
Baptism Date: 1 Sep 1866
Baptism Place: St Alban's Church, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Michael Gaskin
Mother: Maria Murphy
Source Citation
Liverpool Record Office; Liverpool, England; Liverpool Catholic Parish Registers; Reference Number: 282 ALB/1/3
____

A copy of the original baptism record for Michael also accompanied the index you see above. I’ve attached the baptism record to this reply. The record shows that at the time Michael was baptized the family were living at Shadwell Street (Liverpool). You’ll also see that no godfather is recorded for Michael, but that his godmother was Hanora O’Donnell. The priest who baptized him was Jacobus (Jacob) Hennessey.

A Google Map shows that Athol Street T-junctions into Shadwell Street: https://is.gd/JUcxgk

For a Google Street View of Athol Street and Shadwell Street, go to: https://is.gd/O18lof

The baptism record above shows that Michael was born in September of 1866. I went back to the GRO website to generate an index for Michael, whose birth would have been recorded in the Liverpool Registration District in the September quarter of 1866, and whose mother was a Murphy. I didn’t find a birth index for Michael. I also looked for his birth index at the FreeBMD website but without success.

The next baptism record I found at Ancestry.com is for Thomas Gaskin. The baptism index however, transcribes his last name as “Garkell.” Thomas was born on 21 June 1868 and baptized in St. Anthony’s Church, Liverpool, on 28 June 1868. The index further shows that his father was Michaelis “Garkell,” and that his mother was Maria Murphy. Thomas’s full baptism record is attached:

See the index that follows:

Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1741-1916
Name: Thomas Garkell
Age: 0
Birth Date: 21 Jun 1868
Baptism Date: 28 Jun 1868
Baptism Place: St Anthony's, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Michaelis Garkell
Mother: Maria Murphy
Source Citation
Liverpool Record Office; Liverpool, England; Liverpool Catholic Parish Registers; Reference Number: 282 ANT/1/9
____

Once you access a copy of Thomas’s baptism record you’ll see that his godparents were Peter Burns and Catharina Murphy. Catharina Murphy may have been Mary’s sister. The priest who baptized Thomas was Nicholas Molloy.

A Google Map shows that St. Anthony’s Church on the Scotland Road, Liverpool, is less than a mile east of Shadwell Street: https://is.gd/07oMmW

For a Google Street View of St. Anthony’s Church, go to: https://is.gd/UWzf6p

St. Anthony’s Catholic Church was built in 1833 from a design by John Broadbent. For more information about the church go to the Wikipedia article at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Anthony%27s_Church,_Scotland_Road

I next found Thomas’s civil registration birth index at the GRO website, showing his birth was recorded in the Liverpool Registration District in the September quarter of 1868 and that his birth record can be found in Volume 08B, Page 2 of the GRO registers. You can order the birth record from the aforementioned GRO website:

Name: GASKIN, THOMAS
Mother's Maiden Surname: MURPHY
GRO Reference: 1868 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 2
____

I didn’t find any more birth or baptism records for the Gaskin children between the birth Thomas in 1868 and the year 1872. But, sometime within this four year period Michael and Mary Gaskin went back to Ireland, where they had a child named Maria Josephine. I located her baptism transcription at the FMP website, which shows she was baptized in the Tinryland Catholic Parish on 11 September 1872. The FMP transcription of her baptism can be found at: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F5724042

The transcription has a link to Maria’s original Tinryland baptism record held by the NLI, which you can access at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634587#page/65/mode/1up

At the time of the baptism the register shows that Maria and her parents were living in Ballybar. The first name of the priest who baptized Maria was Patritio (Patrick). His last name could be Glowry. The godparents were Jacob and Catherine Farrell.

I knew there would probably be a civil registration birth record for Maria. Civil registration began in Ireland in 1845 when the government only recorded Protestant church and civil marriages. Registration of births, marriages, and deaths in Ireland didn’t commence for all religious denominations until 1864. Today, the irishgenealogy.ie website has copies of original civil births, marriages, and deaths for select years. For example, you can access original birth records from 1864 to 1918. Copies of original marriage records are available from 1864 to 1943, while death records can be accessed for the years 1878 to 1966. This is a work in progress and the website in the future will add copies of original marriage records from 1845 and death records from 1864.

I looked for and found Mary Gaskin’s civil birth record at the irishgenealogy.ie website, showing she was born in Ballybar on September 12, 1872. Her baptism record has her birth day as September 11, and so I’m not sure which day in September she was born. The birth record further shows her father was Michael Gaskin residing in Ballybar. His occupation was, “Smith.” This is the first instance where I came across Michael’s occupation in any of the records I found. This may refer to blacksmith. Mary’s mother is Mary Gaskin, formerly Murphy. Catherine Murphy was present at the birth and reported the birth to the local registrar. Catherine could have been Mary’s mother or sister. The Deputy Registrar, C. McDonell, recorded Mary’s birth in the Carlow Registration District on 18 September 1872. Mary’s birth record is attached to this reply and can be found on Line 370 of the birth register. The birth record is attached to this reply.

Both the birth and baptism records show that the Gaskin family were living in Ballybar at the time Mary was born and baptized. A Google Map shows that Ballybar is only 1.5 miles southwest of Tinryland: https://is.gd/D5c0s9

For a Google Street View of Ballybar go to: https://is.gd/41wYRw

I didn’t locate any more births or baptisms for Gaskin children in County Carlow, and so figured the family were probably in Ireland to visit, and after a while went back to Liverpool after Mary was born.

Sure enough I found the baptism index at Ancestry.com for Michael and Mary’s daughter Margarita, who was born on 9 April 1876 and baptized in the St. Sylvestor Catholic Church, Liverpool, on 9 April 1876. See the Ancestry.com index below:

Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1741-1916
Name: Margarita Gaskin
Age: 0
Birth Date: 1 Apr 1876
Baptism Date: 9 Apr 1876
Baptism Place: St Sylvester (Sylvestri), Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Michael Gaskin
Mother: Maria Murphy
Source Citation
Liverpool Record Office; Liverpool, England; Liverpool Catholic Parish Registers; Reference Number: 282 SYL/1/1
____

A copy of the original baptism record for Margarita is attached to this reply. Hers is the 2nd to the last baptism entry from the bottom of the register. The copy does not give an address of the gaskin family at the time of the baptism. The first name of the priest who baptized Margarita was Michael. I couldn’t readily make out his last name. The godfather was Patrick Murphy, who could have been Mary’s brother. The first name of the godmother was Anna, whose last name I couldn’t decipher either with any certainty.

St. Sylvester’s Catholic Church is no longer used for Mass, and according to a Wikipedia article, it was built 1889-1889, and is located on Silvester Street in the Vauxhall section of Liverpool: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Sylvester%27s_Church,_Vauxhall

A Google Map shows that Silvester Street is 8/10ths of a mile from Shadwell Street in Liverpool: https://is.gd/wgof40

For Google Street View of St. Sylvester’s Church go to: https://is.gd/Wj2504

Unfortunately, I didn’t find a civil registration birth index for Margaret Gaskin at the GRO website. I also looked for her birth index at another website called FreeBMD, but again, without luck. It may be that her birth was not registered with the registrar in the section where the Gaskins were living at the time of Margaret’s birth.

The child born and baptized after Margaret was Michael Josephus Gaskin. His baptism index from Ancestry.com shows he was born on 28 December 1877 and that he was baptized in St. Alban’s Church on 2 January 1878. His last name is spelled, “Gasken,” in the index, which follows:

Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1741-1916
Name: Michael Josephus Gasgen
Age: 0
Birth Date: 28 Dec 1877
Baptism Date: 2 Jan 1878
Baptism Place: St Alban's Church, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Michaeli Gasgen
Mother: Mariae Murphy
Source Citation
Liverpool Record Office; Liverpool, England; Liverpool Catholic Parish Registers; Reference Number: 282 ALB/1/5
____

A copy of Michael’s baptism record is attached. It shows he was on at No 1 Pennington Terrace, Townsend Street. The priest who baptized him was Gulielmo (William), whose last name appears to be Kielly. The godparents are Eugenius (Eugene) and Celia McCauley.

I couldn’t find a Pennington Terrace in Liverpool but did find on a Google Map that Townsend Street is just northeast of Saint Alban’s Catholic Church. See the map at: https://is.gd/8o5XgB

A Google Street View of Townsend Street appears to show it is a dead end off Boundary Street. See: https://is.gd/bD9Tx6

As with Margaret Gaskin, I didn’t find a birth index for her brother Michael at either the GRO or FreeBMD websites.

This would be the second child named Michael that Michael and Mary had. As you saw earlier the first Michael was born 11 years earlier in 1866. This means the first Michael had died and that his parents named another son after him, the father’s namesake. I looked for the death index for Michael Gaskin at the GRO and FreeBMD wesbites. I also looked for his burial record at Ancestry.com’s collection, “All Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1985,” but again, without results. I then expanded the search to Ireland and accessed the civil registration death indexes for Ireland at Ancestry.com, but once again I did not find a death index for Michael. It’s possible that, whether he died in England or Ireland, his parents didn’t report the death to the local registrar.

I next found the baptism index for Helena Gaskin at Ancestry.com. Helena was born on 15 May 1880 and baptized in St. Albans on 5 June 1880. Her parents are listed as Michalis Gaskin and Maria Murphy. See the index below:

Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1741-1916
Name: Helena Gaskin
[Helen Gaskin ]
Age: 0
Birth Date: 15 May 1880
Baptism Date: 5 Jun 1880
Baptism Place: St Alban's Church, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Michalis Gaskin
Mother: Maria Murphy
Source Citation
Liverpool Record Office; Liverpool, England; Liverpool Catholic Parish Registers; Reference Number: 282 ALB/1/5
____

A copy of the original baptism record for Helena is attached to this reply, and shows that she and her family were living in an address of 1 Penistone Terrace, which is the same address recorded on Michael’s 1878 baptism record. The priest who baptized Helena was Patricio L. Kelly. No godfather is recorded, but Helena’s godmother was Maria Anna Quinn. Helena’s baptism record is the 2nd entry up from the bottom of the register.

Once again I couldn’t locate a civil registration birth record for Helena Gaskin at the GRO or FreeBMD websites.

The last two indexes I found for children of Michael and Mary Gaskin were the baptism entries for Henricus (Henry) and your great grandfather, Joannes (John) Gaskin. They were born on 14 March 1882 and baptized in St. Albans Church on 20 March 1882. Their indexes follow:

Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1741-1916
Name: Henricus Gaskin
[Henry Gaskin ]
Age: 0
Birth Date: 14 Mar 1882
Baptism Date: 20 Mar 1882
Baptism Place: St Alban's Church, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Michaelis Gaskin
Mother: Mariae Murphy
Source Citation
Liverpool Record Office; Liverpool, England; Liverpool Catholic Parish Registers; Reference Number: 282 ALB/1/6

Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1741-1916
Name: Joannes Gaskin
[John Gaskin ]
Age: 0
Birth Date: 14 Mar 1882
Baptism Date: 20 Mar 1882
Baptism Place: St Alban's Church, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Michaelis Gaskin
Mother: Mariae Murphy
Source Citation
Liverpool Record Office; Liverpool, England; Liverpool Catholic Parish Registers; Reference Number: 282 ALB/1/6
____

Attached is the baptism register for Henry and John. The register shows that at the time of the baptisms the Gaskin family were living in 1 Penistone Terrace. Both children were baptized Patricio L. Kelly. Henry’s godparents were Thomas Gaskin, who may have been Michael’s brother, and Catherine Murphy, who may have been Mary’s sister.

John’s godparents were Petrus (Peter) McCauley and Maria Sherlock. The baptism register is attached. The baptisms are the first and second recorded in the register.

I did not find civil registration birth records for Henry and John. Vicki, do you have your great grandfather John’s birth cert?

During the course of the research I had looked for the family of Michael and Mary Gaskin in the 1871, 1881, and 1891 census returns for Liverpool, but didn’t find them. I found 61 year old Mary Gaskin and her adult children, Michael, Helen, John, and Henry in the 1901 based on the information you provided in your reply of 17 August to Ireland Reaching Out. The 1901 census shows the Gaskin family living in Bousfield Street, Liverpool.

You can view Bousfield Street off the Walton Road (A59) on a Google Map of Liverpool at: https://is.gd/XCOwf6

For a Google Street View of Bousfield Street and Walton Road, go to: https://is.gd/iXbZzH

The 1901 census shows that Mary Gaskin is a widow, which means that her husband Michael had died sometime between the birth of their sons John and Henry in March of 1882, and the year 1901, though it is also possible that he had died in 1881 before his twins were born.

With that in mind I looked for Michael’s death index at the GRO website, and uncovered one possibility. The index shows the death of a Michael Gaskin was registered in the Prescot (Lancashire) Registration District in the March quarter of 1890. At the time of death Michael was 46, placing his year of birth circa 1844. The index is below:

Name: GASKIN, MICHAEL
Age at Death (in years): 46
GRO Reference: 1890 M Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 575
____

As you know Prescot is just east of Liverpool, and so I don’t know if the above index refers to the death of your Michael Gaskin. You’d have to order his death record from the GRO to find out who reported his death to the local registrar. The informant could be his wife, or one of his children.

Also Vicki, did your great grandfather John Gaskin marry Ursula Checkland? If so I found John and Ursula in the 1911 census living in the household of Ursula’s parents, Henry and Mary Checkland. The address of the household is 91 Peel Road, Bootle. The census shows that John and Ursula were born in Liverpool and that they had two children, 6 year old Anthony and 5 year old John who were also born in Liverpool.

I can send you the census if you do not already have it, that is, if the census refers to your great grandparents John and Ursula.

I next discovered the GRO death index for the person who be Michael and Mary’s son, Michael Joseph Gaskin. The index shows that Michael’s death was recorded in the Liverpool Registration District in the September quarter of 1902. His age at the time of death was 22, but Michael was born in 1878 and so he would have been 24 years old in 1902.

The index follows:

Name: GASKIN, MICHAEL JOSEPH
Age at Death (in years): 22
GRO Reference: 1902 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 103
____

Michael’s death cert can be ordered from the GRO.

I also found Michael Gaskin in the Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1985 collection
at Ancestry.com. The index to the burial record shows Michael was buried in the Ford Cemetery, Liverpool, on 10 July 1902. The index follows:

Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1985

Name: Michael J Gasken
Death Age: 22
Birth Date: abt 1880
Death Date: 1902
Burial Date: 10 Jul 1902
Burial Place: Ford Cemetery, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Source Citation
Liverpool Record Office; Liverpool, England; Liverpool Catholic Parish Registers; Reference Numbers: 282 F
____

A Copy of the burial register entry for Michael is attached to this reply. It shows that his residence at the time of death was the “Lpool Coroner,” instead of a street address. Do you know if Michael died as the result of an accident? The burial record also appears to show the plot where Michael is buried in the Ford Cemetery. This is 1a223.

When I was going through the Liverpool Catholic burials at Ancestry.com I found one register entry of a Mary Gaskin who died in June of 1920 and was buried in the Ford Cemetery on 23 June 1920. At the time of death Mary was 75 years old and had resided in Hermia Street. I couldn’t find Hermia Street on a Google Map of Liverpool or Bootle, though I read that Hermia Street, off Stanley Road was heavily damaged during the Blitz in World War II. Do you know if this entry may possibly refer to your Mary Gaskin?

As you can see this reply is getting lengthy, and so I’ll close here. But I’ll be sending a second reply with information I found about Michael Gaskin, his parents and siblings in County Carlow.

Finding more information about Mary Murphy however, is more problematic. Her marriage record shows that her father was Patrick and her mother Catherine, but her mother’s maiden name in the marriage record is covered with what appears to be an ink blot. Without knowing her mother’s maiden name, I can’t be sure of locating the correct baptism record for her. I’ll have more information about Mary in the next reply.

This reply includes 9 attachments:

Catherine Gaskin 1864 baptism
Michael Gaskin 1866 baptism
Thomas Gaskin 1868 baptism
Mary Gaskin 1872 birth
Margaret Gaskin 1876 baptism
Michael Gaskin 1877 baptism
Helena Gaskin 1880 baptism
Henry and John Gaskin 1882 baptisms.
Michael Gaskin 1902 burial
____

Kind Regards Vicki,

Dave

That is tremendous detail. Absolutely fascinating details and such fascinating names. Some clearly have not passed down through the family. I think that Mary’s parents were Patrick Murphy who was born around 1819 and Catherine Hogan who was born around 1815. I think Catherine’s parents were James Hogan and Mary Bolger from Wexford. I’m not sure about Mary’s siblings but it sounds like there will be details online. Ballybar must be literally a field or so next to Linkardstown graveyard. I visited the graveyard last week and Tinryland and can only imagine how much Michael and Mary missed the countryside. Where they lived in Liverpool was at the frontline of dock life and poor housing. It would have been grim.

The details that you’ve shared are fascinating and really help to build a thorough picture of my great-grandfather’s family and background. John died in the 1930s and all I’d been told was that he’d been in a gas attack during the war. He was an early volunteer - and yes, he did marry Ursula Checkland, and managed to survive the war. He returned a different man, like so many, and I think that Ursula maintained order and ensured that food was on the table. John Gaskin has been a mystery to me which is why finding out all this detail is absolutely brilliant. Ursula used to tell her daughter Cissy (Ursula) - “Never marry an Irishman”! So John must have clearly grown up in a family that retained very strongly Irish Catholic traditions and neighbours. I’ll write all this down!

 

I thought I’d add that John Gaskin was a clerk prior to the war and apparently saved the life of someone from a prominent family who offered him a very good job upon his return from war. He declined this as he didn’t want to appear greedy or the like. It would have helped him hugely I suspect if he’d not allowed his pride to get in the way! In order to be a clerk it seems that he would have received an education though.

Hello Vicki,

Thank you for your fast reply and the additional information about Mary Murphy’s parents, Patrick Murphy and Catherine Hogan, as well as Catherine’s parents, James Hogan and Mary Bolger. This is just the information needed to carry on further research.

I’ve already begun finding more information about John Gaskin, his parents, and his siblings. I’m also going to see what records I can locate for John’s service in World War I.

This research may be completed by the weekend, but if not, by sometime next week.

Once again, thank you form writing.

All the Best,

Dave

Hi Dave

I found John’s wedding certificate to Ursula and Michael is listed as decreased and a slate layer. I’m not sure about the death date of the Michael you found as my Michael was born in 1834. I know that mistakes can easily happen and I think I’ll need to obtain a copy of it to see if I can get clarification as maybe Mary or one of the children would be named on it too like you said. I know that John served in the Liverpool regiment, the Kings, and was in one of the Pals Battalions from the beginning. 16th rings a bell but I could be wrong! Vicky

 

 

 

Thank you Vicki. If you do obtain a copy of the death record, and if it does pertain to your Michael, could you send it as an attachment in a future reply?

In the meantime, I believe I found at least two documents that refer to John Gaskin's service. I need to do more digging to see if anything else turns up. I'll send these military documents to you in the forthcoming reply this week with the rest of the information I've found.

Thank you again,

Dave

Will do Dave - I’ll look at ordering it. With regard to military service I’m always fascinated by the medical records and deciphering them. I teach WW1 medicine/treatments. Many thanks for all the time you’re taking re this!

Attached Files

Hello Vicki,

I found the Tinryland Catholic Church Parish baptism transcriptions for 8 children of Patrick Gaskin and Catherine Byrne at the Find My Past (FMP) website. Each of the transcriptions includes a link to copies of the original baptisms held by the National Library of Ireland (NLI). The names and years of baptisms for the children are:

Joannis, (John) 1817
Elinora, 1819
Mary, 1823
Catherine, 1826
Pat, 1829
Jas (James), 1831
Mich (Michael), 1834
Mary, 1836
____

You are indeed fortunate that your ancestors worshipped in a parish church that has records that go back that far in the 19th century, as many Catholic Churches in Ireland do not. The fact that the baptisms go back as early as 1819 prompted me to go to the NLI website for the Tinryland Catholic Parish Church (present day Saint Josephs) to see exactly when the parish registers commence.

The NLI website shows that baptisms are available from 28 March 1813 to 24 May 1844. There is a slight gap in the registers at this point, but they pick up again on 2 June 1833 and go to 20 December 1857. There is another gap in the baptisms until they begin again on 6 January 1858 and run to 6 March 1881

The NLI website also shows that Tinryland marriages commence on 20 June 1813 and proceed to 28 February 1843. There is a gap in the marriage registers when they begin again on 25 April 1843 and go to 26 November 1857. After another gap the marriages begin again on 21 January 1858 and go to 17 May 1881. You can view the availability of the Tinryland Parish baptisms and marriages, plus view a map of the Tinryland and surrounding Catholic Parishes at the NLI website link at: https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0734

I don’t believe I mentioned in the previous reply, but the Catholic Parish of Tinryland was located in the Civil Parish of Tullowmagimma, also known as Tullowmagrinagh and Thumbagurna. See: https://www.libraryireland.com/topog/T/Tullowmagrinagh-Carlow-Carlow.php

The following link will take you to the 17 November 1817 FMP baptism transcription for Joannis Gaskin:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F5610734

To access a copy of his original baptism record go to the NLI link at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634585#page/25/mode/1up

The baptism record is on the right-hand page, 11th entry down from the top. The baptism record shows that his godparents were Michaelis Byrne and Margarita Gaskin. No residence for the family is recorded in the baptism.

The following link will take you to the 27 February 1819 FMP baptism transcription for Elinora Gaskin:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F5289240

A copy of the original baptism record for Elinora can be viewed at the following NLI link:
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634585#page/30/mode/1up

Her baptism is the 7th entry down the right-hand baptism register page, and shows that her godfather is Toma (Thomas) Baxter and her godmother, Sara Holdan.

Next, Mary Gaskin’s 15 July 1823 FMP baptism transcription can be viewed at: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F5289396

To access a copy of her original baptism record at the NLI go to: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634585#page/52/mode/1up

Mary’s baptism is on the left-hand register page, 4th entry up from the bottom. Her godfather is Michl Gorman. Her godmother is Ann Shortall..

The 27 August 1826 baptism transcription at the FMP website for Catherine Gaskin can be found at:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F7410576

A copy of Catherine’s original baptism record at the NLI can be seen at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634585#page/68/mode/1up

Her baptism is the last entry on the left-hand page. Her godfather is Thomas Hollogan. Her godmother is Mary Gaskin. This baptism record shows the Gaskin family was residing in “Linkerstown,” that is Linkardstown.

Next, Patrick Gaskin was baptized on 21 March 1829. See his FMP transcription at: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F5610993

Pat’s NLI baptism record can be found on the left-hand page, 2nd entry up from the bottom at:
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634585#page/79/mode/1up

His godparents are Pat Holden and Ellen Gorman. The address of the Gaskin family is Linkardstown.

The child baptized after Patrick was James. His baptism took place on 22 August 1831. His FMP transcription can be found at: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F4138657

The NLI link where James’s baptism can viewed is: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634585#page/91/mode/1up

His baptism is on the right-hand page, 2nd entry down in the register. His godfather is Gerado (Gerard or Gerald) Byrne. His godmother is Judith Shortall. No residence for the Gaskin family is recorded in the baptism record.

The following FMP transcription for the 6 April 1834 baptism of your great great grandfather, Michael Gaskin, can be found at: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F4120818

To access a copy of Michael’s original baptism record at the NLI website go to the following link:
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634586#page/8/mode/1up

His baptism is on the left-hand register page, 6th entry down from the top. Michael’s godfather is Wm Byrne. His godmother is Mary Gorman. The address of the Gaskin family is “Linkerstown.”

The youngest Gaskin child whose baptism I found is Mary. She was baptized on 18 December 1836. Her FMP baptism transcription can be viewed at: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F4120850

Mary’s baptism record is the 5th entry down from the left-hand baptism register page at the following NLI link:
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634586#page/19/mode/1up

Her baptism record shows that the godparents were Pat and Brid Gorman. The address of the Gaskin family is, “Linkerstown.”

This is the second baptism record for a Mary Gaskin, which means that the Mary Gaskin who was born and baptized in 1823 had died.

Earlier you saw that the Tinryland Catholic marriages go back to the year 1813. The first child of Patrick Gaskin and May Byrne, John, was born in 1817. I figured that Patrick and Mary would have been married sometime before 1817, but I was wrong, as I found their marriage record at the FMP website showing their marriage took place in the Tinryland Catholic Parish on 17 October 1819.

The FMP marriage transcription for Patrick and Mary can be seen at: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FMAR%2F1564617%2F1

A Copy of their original marriage record held by the NLI is on the right-hand marriage register page, 4th entry up from the bottom at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634585#page/108/mode/1up

One of the witnesses to the marriage is Thomas Murphy. The first name of the second witness looks like “Franciscum.” The surname appears to be “Hayden.”

What this marriage record shows is that Patrick and Mary were married after they had two children. As you saw earlier, their son John was baptized on 17 November 1817, while their daughter Elinora was baptized on 27 February 1819, eight months before the marriage of her parents.

The baptism records for John and Elinora do not show a notation by the priest who baptized them, that they were illegitimate, or in Latin, “Illegitimus,” as some baptism records do. I believe that out-of-wedlock births occurred more often in pre-Victorian times than is commonly supposed.

GRIFFITHS VALUATION

In her reply of Saturday, 17 August 2019, Miriam had kindly mentioned that Patrick Gaskin could be found in Griffiths Valuation leasing property from James Dowling in Linkardstown. She had also mentioned Griffiths Valuation (GV) maps.

By way of explanation Griffiths Valuation was enumerated in the 32 counties of Ireland between 1847 and 1864. The valuation for County Carlow was completed by the year 1852.

Unlike a census, Griffiths Valuation did not enumerate individual members of a family, such as husband, wife, and children in a household residence. Those named in the valuation were individuals who paid to lease property, such as land, houses, and outbuildings. Each person who paid to lease the property was called an “Occupier.” The other person listed in Griffiths Valuation was the person who owned the property, or who worked as the middleman for the owner. This person was called the “Immediate Lessor.”

You can access Griffiths Valuation transcriptions and original copies for free at the askaboutireland website link at: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

Below is the Griffiths Valuation transcription for Patrick Gaskin in Linkardstown from the askaboutireland website.

No. and Letters of Reference to Map: 4b
Civil Parish: Tullowmagimma
Townland: Linkardstown
Occupier: Patrick Gaskin
Immediate Lessor: James Dowling
Description of Tenement: House
Area of Land: 0
Rateable Annual Valuation of Land: 0
Rateable Annual Valuation of Buildings: 5 Shillings
Total Annual Valuation of Rateable Property: 5 Shillings
____

Griffiths Valuation shows that Patrick leased a house, but no land from the Immediate Lessor, James Dowling in Linkardstown, Civil Parish of Tullowmagimma. James would have been the middle man for the property, not the owner. The absence of land in the leasehold could indicate that Patrick was a tradesman of some sort at the time, and not a farmer. The house Patrick leased was valued at 5 Shillings. He would not have been required to pay a tax on this property as only those leaseholds valued at over 5 Pounds were subject to the tax. In this case the owner had to pay the tax. The map number at the top of the valuation entry (4b) refers to the location of Patrick’s lease on an Ordnance Survey Map that had been previously published. More on Ordnance Survey maps later.

Below is the Griffiths Valuation entry for James Dowling, who had leased property from an Immediate Lessor named Henry Bruen at map reference 4a in Linkardstown. This property included a herd’s house, office, and over 103 acres of land. The land was valued at 98 Pounds, while the herd’s house and office were valued at 10 Shillings. The total value for James Dowling’s lease was 98 Pounds and 10 Shillings. He would have been required to pay a percentage of this value toward the tax. Though Griffiths Valuation doesn’t actually mention the owner of the two properties noted above, I believe Henry Bruen would have been the owner. If you access all the leaseholders in Griffiths Valuation for Linkardstown at the askaboutireland website, you’d see that Henry Bruen is listed as the Immediate Lessor for the majority of the acreage in the townland.

An “Office” in Griffiths Valuation refers to outbuildings, which could include a barn, stable, blacksmith shop, piggery, etc:

No. and Letters of Reference to Map: 4a
Civil Parish: Tullowmagimma
Townland: Linkardstown
Occupier: James Dowling
Immediate Lessor: Henry Bruen
Description of Tenement: Herd’s-house, office, & land
Area of Land: 103 Acres, 1 Rood, 33 Perches
Rateable Annual Valuation of Land: 98 Pounds
Rateable Annual Valuation of Buildings: 10 Shillings
Total Annual Valuation of Rateable Property: 98 Pounds, 10 Shillings
____

There is also an Occupier in Linkardstown named Denis Murphy leasing a house at map reference 2b, valued at 5 Shillings, from an Immediate Lessor named Garrett Nolan. Denis may have been related to Mary Murphy Gaskin:

No. and Letters of Reference to Map: 2b
Civil Parish: Tullowmagimma
Townland: Linkardstown
Occupier: Denis Murphy
Immediate Lessor: Garrett Nolan
Description of Tenement: House
Area of Land: -
Rateable Annual Valuation of Land: -
Rateable Annual Valuation of Buildings: 5 Shillings
Total Annual Valuation of Rateable Property: 5 Shillings
____

Next, I accessed the Griffiths Valuation Ordnance Survey Map at the askaboutireland website, to see if I could locate Patrick Gaskin’s property in Linkardstown. I’ve found over the years that these online maps are not the easiest to navigate, and in some cases I’ve not found properties of the Griffiths Valuation Occupiers I was looking for. Also, I have never been able to link or attach the Griffiths Valuation maps from askaboutireland to replies such as this. This may be due to a lack of computer savvy on my part, or it’s possible the Valuation Office in Dublin has put a lock on being able to copy these maps.

But, during the 19th century several ordnance survey maps were produced in Ireland, some in color and some in black and white. I found the Ordnance Survey Map for Linkardstown at the GeoHive website. This is the exact same map as the one for Griffiths Valuation, except the map from GeoHive does not have the map coordinate numbers attached to it. However, by cross referencing the Ordnance Survey Map from Griffiths Valuation at askaboutireland, and the other black and white and colored Ordnance Survey Maps from GeoHive, I believe I found where Patrick Gaskin’s property was situated in Linkardstown.

You can view the map at the GeoHive link at: http://bit.ly/2Zs5Qld

On this colored Ordnance Survey Map from the 1837 to 1841 time period, you’ll see a road going horizontally across the very bottom of the page. This is the modern-day Ballybar Upper Road. You’ll also see another road heading north off the Ballybar Upper Road, at the end of which are several buildings. One of these buildings is Patrick’s house.

To show you the exact location of where I believe Patrick’s house was located, go to the black and white Ordnance Survey Map from the 1888 to 1913 time period at the GeoHive link at: http://bit.ly/2ZucmYG

On this map each structure is numbered along the lane running north from the Ballybar Upper Road. The location of Patrick’s house, as far as I could determine, is structure 476, just below the dead-end lane. The rest of the structures on this area of map (406, 450, 456, and above the lane at 391, were leased, I believe, by James Dowling.

If you go back to Ireland from Merseyside, you may want to consider stopping at the Valuation Office in Dublin at the Irish Life Centre, Abbey St Lower, North City, Dublin 1, and ask one of the office staff there is they can verify that this is the location of Map Reference 2a on the Griffiths Valuation Map for Linkardtown. The website for the Valuation Office can be found at: https://www.valoff.ie/en/

A Google Street View from the Ballybay Upper Road shows the lane that heads up toward the house that Patrick Gaskin had leased. You’ll actually see two paved surfaces coming off the Ballybar Upper Road. The one of the left is a driveway that leads to house just beyond the tree. The one on the right is the one that would have led to Patrick’s house: https://is.gd/rExt8k

Next is a satellite view from Google showing the Ballybar Upper Road and the lane that heads up toward what appears to be barns and perhaps a house, or the location of a house, where Patrick had lived in the early 1850s: https://is.gd/Jb6dUm

Griffiths Valuation shows that Denis Murphy leased a house in Linkardstown at map reference 2b. I couldn’t locate 2b on the colored Ordnance Survey Map that accompanies Griffiths Valuation at the askaboutireland website. But I did find map references a, c, d, and e. You can view this area of Linkardstown from the Ordnance Survey Map at the GeoHive website link at: http://bit.ly/2ZropX1

There are actually 4 different Ordnance Survey Maps you can access from Griffiths Valuation for Linkardstown, one of which is in color, while the other 3 are in black and white. One of the black and white maps does have map reference 2, which you can view in black and white at the GeoHive Map at: http://bit.ly/2ZzrO6d

The section of the GeoHive Map where Denis Murphy’s house may have been located is labeled, 6 * 692, the second plot of land below the Linkardstown House. Denis Murphy’s house, I believe, would have been somewhere within the boundaries of this land, just to the right of present day Nurney Road. You can see this area on a Google Map at: https://is.gd/E9xXNV

A Google Street View of this same area along the Nurney Road can be seen at: https://is.gd/jMD3MA

Officials at the Valuation Office in Dublin may be able to pinpoint where Denis’s house in Linkardstown was situated. It is worth stopping by the office, as many years ago they found where my great great grandfather had leased his house and land in Ballybricken North, County Limerick, based on the map reference number found in Griffiths Valuation.

PATRICK MURPHY AND CATHERINE HOGAN AND FAMILY

Vicki, your information shows that Mary Murphy Gaskin’s parents were Patrick Murphy and Catherine Hogan.
I found their marriage transcription at the FMP website. They were married in the Tinryland Catholic Parish on 16 July 1839, according to the transcription at: https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FMAR%2F1564494%2F1

Their full marriage record is at the top of the left-hand marriage register page at the following NLI link : https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634585#page/131/mode/1up

This record shows that Patrick and Catherine were married by “Banns,” which means their marriage had been announced at Mass for 3 previous Sundays before the marriage took place. One of the witnesses to the marriage was Ann Timmins. The first name of the second witness is Cath. Her last name may be McGuin, though I can’t be sure of that. The address of Patrick and Catherine is Tinryland

Next I looked for the baptism transcription of Patrick and Catherine’s daughter Mary in County Carlow at the FMP website, but did not find it. Or did I? I uncovered one baptism transcription for a Mary Murphy, daughter of Patrick Hogan and “Ketty Horan,” baptized on 16 September 1839, according to the FMP transcription at: https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F6377197

In accessing a copy of the original baptism record at the NLI website, I found that the first name of Mary’s mother is actually spelled “Kitty,” (short for Catherine), and that Kitty’s maiden name could be Hogan, rather than Horan. You can view the baptism on the left-hand register page, 3rd entry down from the top at:
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634586#page/30/mode/1up

Mary’s godparents are Martin Timmins and Mary Murphy. The residence of the Murphy family is Tinryland. Vicki, I think this record actually pertains to the baptism of your Mary Murphy, as I did not find a marriage record for a Patrick Murphy or a Catherine/Kitty Horan anywhere in County Carlow in the 1830s, nor did I locate any more baptism records for children whose parents were Patrick Murphy and Catherine/Kitty Horan in the Tinryland Catholic Parish, or in County Carlow. If this Mary is the daughter of Patrick Murphy and Catherine Hogan, she would have been baptized exactly 3 months after her parents were married on 16 July 1839. What do you think?

Next I located the FMPI the baptism transcriptions for 5 of Mary’s siblings, all baptized in the Tinrytown Catholic Parish. The names and years of baptism for these children are:

Thomas, 1843
Margt, 1845
John, 1848
James, 1852
Pat, 1854
____

To view the index of these baptisms go to the FMP link at: https://is.gd/qJbuzb

The baptism transcription for Thomas shows he was baptized on 28 June 1843. His full baptism record at the NLI website can be found on the right-hand baptism register page, 4th entry down from the top at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634586#page/45/mode/1up

Thomas’s godparents are William Hogan and Cath Donahoe. The residence of the Murphy family is recorded as Ballybar.

Next, the transcription for Margaret shows her baptism took place on 16 August 1845. See:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F4120675

Her full baptism record at the NLI website can be viewed at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634586#page/53/mode/1up

Margaret’s baptism is the 9th entry down from the top of the left-hand baptism register page. Her godfather is James Hogan. The first name of her godmother is Cath. I couldn’t quite make out her last name however. The residence of the Murphy family is Ballybar.

John Murphy was baptized on 29 July 1848. To see his FMP baptism transcription go to:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F6377368

John’s baptism record from the NLI website is the 8th entry up from the bottom of the right-hand baptism register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634586#page/62/mode/1up

His godparents are Charles Timmins and Anne Timmins. The residence of the Murphy family is Ballybar.

The 15 February 1852 FMP baptism transcription for James Murphy can be accessed at:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F4120780

James’s baptism is on the left-hand baptism register page, 5th entry up from the bottom at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634586#page/71/mode/1up

James’s godparents are Pat Hogan and Margaret Byrne. Margaret Byrne may have been related to Michael Gaskin’s mother, Catherine Byrne. The residence of the Murphy family is Ballybar.

Lastly, the baptism of Pat Murphy took place on 2 July 1854 as shown at the FMP transcription at:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F4120783

Pat’s baptism record is on the right-hand register page, 4th entry up from the bottom at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634586#page/75/mode/1up

Pat’s godparents are Edward Hogan and Maria Hogan. The residence of the Murphy family is Ballybar.

Griffiths Valuation shows there were actually two townlands called Ballybar. One is Ballybar Upper and one is Ballybar Lower. Ballybar Upper and Lower were located in the Civil Parish of Clonmelsh, which is bordered on the east by the Civil Parish of Tullowmagimma, the Civil Parish where Linkardstown was situated.

I didn’t find a Patrick Murphy leasing property in either place, but Griffiths shows that a Edward Murphy leased only land in Ballybar Upper, and so Patrick Murphy and his family had either been living in the household of another person in Ballybar Upper, or had lived in Ballybar Lower.

In Ballybar Lower, Griffiths Valuation shows that a James Hogan leased a house and over 2 acres of land at map reference 9, from an Immediate Lessor named Thomas Cummins. The land was valued at 2 Pounds and 5 Shillings, while the house was valued at 10 Shillings, for a total valuation of 2 Pounds, 15.

Your information shows that Catherine Hogan’s father was James Hogan, and so I’d wager that Patrick and Catherine Murphy and their children were living in the household of Catherine’s father, James Hogan in Ballybar Lower.

The Griffiths Valuation transcription for James Hogan in Ballybar Lower follows:

No. and Letters of Reference to Map: 9
Civil Parish: Clonmelsh
Townland: Ballybar Lower
Occupier: James Hogan
Immediate Lessor: Thomas Cummins
Description of Tenement: House and land
Area of Land: 2 Acres, 2 Shillings, 9 Perches
Rateable Annual Valuation of Land: 2 Pounds, 5 Shillings
Rateable Annual Valuation of Buildings: 10 Shillings
Total Annual Valuation of Rateable Property: 2 Pounds, 15 Shillings
____

Once again I accessed the Griffiths Valuation ordnance Survey Map from askaboutireland and located map reference 9, where James Hogan’s lease was situated in Ballybar Lower. I compared this map with the similar Ordnance Survey Map at GeoHive and can show you the approximate location of his house. This is the bloack and white Ordnance Survey Map from the 1888 to 1913 time period: http://bit.ly/2LigaTb

In the center of the map you’ll see a plot of land labeled 733. Just below this plot of land you’ll see the representation of what appear to be two structures. James Hogan’s lease was in this approximate area of Ballybar Lower. You can see this same area on a modern Google Map at: https://is.gd/bWPSiO

James Hogan’s property on the Google Map was located in the center of the map below Dolmen Precision & Fabrication LTD in a road called Bullock Park.

You can view this same area on a Google satellite view at: https://is.gd/CHsxjY

The same location off Bullock Park can be seen on a Google Street View at: https://is.gd/rhM2Tf

If you do go to the Valuation Office in Dublin sometime in the future you can also ask a staff member to go over the Ordnance Survey Map for Griffiths Valuation for the location of James Hogan’s lease in Ballybar Lower.

While I didn’t find Patrick Murphy recorded in Griffiths Valuation, I did locate a Patrick Murphy in another land record called the Tithe Applotment Books, which predates Griffiths. This information was found at the National Archives of Ireland website search engine at: http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/index.jsp

For an explanation of the Tithe Applotment Books, go to the National Archives of Ireland links at:

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/about.jsp

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/aboutmore.jsp

https://www.nationalarchives.ie/article/tithe-applotment-records/

The information at the links above show that the Tithe Applotment Books were compiled between 1823 and 1837. The record of Patrick Murphy in the Tithe Applotments that I found leasing property in “Tinriland,” is not dated, but this may refer to your Patrick Murphy. You can view the Tithe Applotment index for him at the National Archives of Ireland link at: https://is.gd/EB53eO

If you click on Patrick’s first or last names, which are highlighted in blue, you’ll be taken to a copy of the original Tithe Applotment Book entry where he can be found leasing property in Tinriland. You can also access the copy of the original Tithe record at: http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625728/00…

Patrick Murphy is the 4th Occupier listed from the top of the Tithe page, below Occupiers named Rev. Wm. Tyrell, Margaret Norris, and Thomas Coyne. In reading this record it appears that Patrick and several of the other occupiers had leased their farmland in common, with Patrick’s share of the tithes amounting to 1 Pound and 10 Shillings.

Unlike Griffiths Valuation the Tithe Applotment Books do not have map coordinates to show where a particular Occupier’s leasehold was situated in a particular townland.

THE FAMILY OF JAMES HOGAN AND MARY BOLGER

Your records show that Catherine Hogan’s mother was Mary Bolger, and so I next looked for the baptism transcriptions for any children of James Hogan and Mary Bolger at the FMP website. I found the baptism transcription for Catherine as well as 8 other children of James Hogan and Mary Bolger in the Tinryland Catholic Parish. These children include:

Joannes (John), 1813
Cath (Catherine), 1815
Thoma (Thomas), 1817
Michaelis (Michael), 1820
Gulielmus (William), 1823
James, 1826
Patrick, 1828
Edwd, (Edward), 1831
Mary, 1833
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What is interesting to note about the Hogan baptisms is that by the time that Mary was born in 1833, her eldest sibling John was 20 years old, while her older sister Catherine was 18.

It was a bit of a challenge locating the baptisms for John in 1813 and Catherine in 1815, as their baptisms were not indexed with the other 7 Hogan children at the FMP website. That’s because in John’s baptism his mother’s maiden name is spelled Bulger, rather than Bolger, while in the case of Catherine, her last name was transcribed as, “Hogar,” rather than Hogan.

John was baptized on 4 July 1813. To view his FMP transcription go to:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F5289018

A copy of his original baptism record held by the NLI can be accessed at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634585#page/4/mode/1up

His baptism is the first one listed at the top of the right-hand baptism register page. His mother’s maiden name is spelled “Bulger.” His godparents are Jacobus Kelly and Anna Bulger. No address is recorded for the Hogan family in the baptism record.

Next, Catherine “Hogar” was baptized on St. Patrick’s Day, 17 March 1815. Her FMP baptism transcription can be found at: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F7410970

Catherine’s baptism record at the NLI website is the 9th entry down the right-hand register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634585#page/12/mode/1up

Her godparents are Patritius Donahoe and Maria Timmins.

Thomas Hogan was baptized on 25 November 1817. See his FMP baptism transcription at:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F5610736

His NLI baptism record can be found at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634585#page/25/mode/1up

Thomas’s baptism is the 7th entry up from the bottom of the right-hand register page. His godparents are Michael Cummins and Anna Jons.

Michael Hogan was baptized after Thomas. Michael was baptized on 10 September 1820. See his FMP transcription at:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F5289305

Michael baptism record at the NLI website is the 3rd entry down the left-hand register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634585#page/38/mode/1up

His godparents are Gulielmus (William) Timmins and Maria Hayden.

Gulielmus, or William Hogan was baptized next. His baptism took place on 21 May 1823. See the transcription at:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F5289391

His NLI baptism record is on the left-hand register page, 5th entry down from the top at:
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634585#page/51/mode/1up

William’s godparents are Michael Byrne and Elinora Hayden.

The next Hogan child to be baptized was James. His FMP transcription shows his baptism took place on 2 May 1826.
See: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F5289512

His full baptism record at the NLI link is the last entry at the bottom of the left-hand register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634585#page/66/mode/1up

James’s godparents are Pat and Mary Bolger. The residence of the Hogan family in this baptism record is Ballybar.

Patrick Hogan was baptized on 17 July 1828 according to his FMP baptism transcription at:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F7410521

His baptism record at the NLI website is the 1st entry at the top of the right-hand register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634585#page/76/mode/1up

Patrick’s godparents are Patrick and Betty Byrne. The baptism record shows the residence of the Hogan family was Ballybar.

Three years later Edward Hogan was baptized in the Tinryland Catholic Parish on 5 July 1831 according the FMP transcription at: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F4138652

His baptism can be found on the right-hand register page, 7th entry down from the top at the NLI link: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634585#page/90/mode/1up

Edward’s godparents are Martin and Ann Timmins. The residence of the Hogan family is recorded as Ballybar.

The youngest Hogan child whose baptism transcription I found at the FMP website was Mary. She was baptized on 28 August 1833: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F4110111

Her baptism record is the 6th entry down from the right-hand register page at the NLI link: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634586#page/4/mode/1up

Mary’s godparents are John and Ellen Timmins. The address of the Hogan family is Ballybar.

As noted earlier Tinryland Catholic Parish marriages did not commence until 1813, the year that James and Mary Hogan’s son John was baptized. I looked for the marriage of James Hogan and Mary Bolger anyway in the Tintryland Catholic Parish at FMP, but didn’t find it. I also looked for their marriage in other County Carlow Catholic parishes with registers that go back to the early 19th century but without success. I then searched for their marriage in other counties in Ireland but did not find their marriage record.

JOHN GASKIN

Last week I had looked for any military records for John Gaskin at Ancestry.com and the FamilySearch website. I found two records at Ancestry.com, both pertaining to the Victory Medal he received for service in World War I.

The index for one of these records from Ancestry.com is below, which shows he had served in the 17th Kings Liverpool Regiment as a “Pte,” that is, a Private.

WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920

Name: John Gaskin
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Private
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: The King's (Liverpool) Regiment
Regimental Number: 54282
Previous Units: 54282 17th. KLR. Pte

Source Citation
The National Archives of the UK; Kew, Surrey, England; WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls; Class: WO 329; Piece Number: 817

Source Information
Ancestry.com. UK, WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014.
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Attached to this reply is the roster of other men who served in the 17th Kings Liverpool Regiment with John who had also received the Victory Medal.

The next record pertains to a British Army WW I Medal Rolls Index Card, also found at Ancestry.com:

British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920

Name: John Gaskin
Regiment or Corps: The King's (Liverpool) Regiment
Regimental Number: 54282

Source Information
Ancestry.com. British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2008.

Original data: Army Medal Office. WWI Medal Index Cards. In the care of The Western Front Association website.
____

For more information about the 17th Battalion of the Kings Liverpool Regiment, go to the webmatters link at: http://www.webmatters.net/txtpat/index.php?id=609

Also see: https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/community/2235

A copy of the original index card for John Gaskin is also attached. I was hoping to find John’s World War I service record, but did not do so.

The National Archives in Richmond, Surrey, near London, holds British military records, and they may have John Gaskin’s service record, including any medical records that pertain to him. The National Archives website can be found at: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

The subscription portion of Find My Past (FMP) also includes British Military records that you can access, but I don’t think FMP will have as many records as the National Archives will. If you have any planes of making a trip to London from Merseyside in the next year or two, you may want to consider stopping at the National Archives in Richmond, Surrey, to see what military records you can find for John Gaskin. To view the catalog entry at the National Archives for the 17 Battalion King's Liverpool Regiment, go to the following National Archives link at: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353647

You can also contact the National Archives for more information about how you can see if there is a service record for John Gaskin in World War I.

Also pertaining to John Gaskin, I found his Catholic burial index and a copy of the actual burial register at Ancestry.com’s, “Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1985,” showing that he was buried in Ford Cemetery, on 9 November 1935. He was age 52 when he died. See the index below:

Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1985

Name: John Henry Gaskin
Death Age: 52
Birth Date: abt 1883
Death Date: 1935
Burial Date: 9 Nov 1935
Burial Place: Ford Cemetery, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Source Citation
Liverpool Record Office; Liverpool, England; Liverpool Catholic Parish Registers; Reference Numbers: 282
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I’ve also attached a copy of the original burial record for John. His is the last entry at the bottom of the right-hand register page, and shows that his residence at death was Fazakerly…, with the remainder of the residence appearing to read, “Sanitarium.” This would be the current day University Hospital Aintree, or the Fazaakerly Hospital from the information I’ve found about it.

The Ford Cemetery burial register also shows that at the time of death John was 52 years old, and that he is buried in Grave W.D. 310.

I then found the index for the burial of John’s wife Ursula Mary Gaskin at Ancestry.com’s, “Liverpool, England, Catholic Burial, 1813-1985.” The register shows that Ursula was buried in the Ford Cemetery on 18 January 1962. At the time of death she was 79:

Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1985

Name: Ursula Mary Gaskin
Death Age: 79
Birth Date: abt 1883
Death Date: 1962
Burial Date: 18 Jan 1962
Burial Place: Ford Cemetery, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Source Citation
Liverpool Record Office; Liverpool, England; Liverpool Catholic Parish Registers; Reference Numbers: 282

Source Information
Ancestry.com. Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1985 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011.
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A copy of the original Ford Cemetery burial register is attached, and gives the further information that her residence at the time of death was 100 Childwall Valley Rd. Ursula is also buried in Grave W.D. 310.

While at Ancestry.com I wanted to see if there were will or administration indexes for John and Ursula Gaskin. The full name for this Ancestry.com collection is, “England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995.”

I didn’t find a will/administration index for John, but I did for Ursula, which you can view below:

National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995

Name: Ursula Mary Gaskin
Death Date: 15 Jan 1962
Death Place: Liverpool, England
Probate Date: 28 Feb 1964
Probate Registry: Liverpool, England

Source Information
Ancestry.com. England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2010.

Original data: Principal Probate Registry. Calendar of the Grants of Probate and Letters of Administration made in the Probate Registries of the High Court of Justice in England. London, England © Crown copyright.
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A copy of the original will and administration entry for Ursula is attached to this reply. Her name is on the right-hand page, second column, 4th entry down, and shows that at the time of death she had lived at 100 Childwall Valley Rd. The administrators of her will were Eric Harris, Francis Joseph Gaskin, and Ursula Rooney, wife of James Andrew Rooney. The value of Ursula Gaskin’s estate was £16995.

Information at Ancestry.com explains how you can order the will of an individual. See the following:

If you wish to order a copy of a will or grant mentioned in this collection, you can do so for a fee from the Principal Probate Registry at First Avenue House or any district probate registry. You’ll need to provide the full name of the deceased, the date of the grant and the registry where it was issued. For more information, please visit the Probate Registry’s website at: https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

Also see: http://www.ancestor-search.info/NAT-Probate.htm

This reply contains 5 attachments:

John Gaskin’s Medal and Award Roll
John Gaskin’s Victory Medal Index Card
John Gaskin’s 1935 burial register
Ursula Gaskin’s 1962 burial register
Ursula Gaskin’s will index
____

With Kind Regards Vicki,

Dave

Hello! Is PTE. John Gaskin of the Liverpool Regiment service number 54282 a relative of yours? My aunt died last year and in within her late husbands belonging was something that belonged to 54282 PTE. J Gaskin L'pool R. 

Many thanks

Hannah

 

Hi Hannah - I've since found out that this is not my great grandfather but I've tried to locate your John Gaskin's family but I've not had any luck. What is the item and could it be used by a museum? I'm a history teacher so find artefacts really fascinating!! Thank you for contacting me though. Vicky

 

 

 

 

Thank you for letting me know. I have a medal of his. I have done some more research and found out he was a POW. My plan is to take it the the Liverpool Museum as they keep lots of military items for those that were in the Liverpool Regiment. Many thanks Hannah

That's a good idea. I've tried to trace his family but I've had no luck. I wonder why it ended up where it did? 

 

He is a complete mystery, the only records I can find for him are his army ones. He goes missing in 1918 and then I found him as a POW in Dulmen his age is give as 03-90 but I can't find anything further with than, then there is another record showing his release from the camp and returning to England in Jan 1919 and then the trail goes cold. Nothing before the army and bother after, I'm at a loss and still no idea how his medal ended up in the family.

many thanks Hannah