McArdles & McCanns

Philip,

I am not an expert on church laws and rules but am fairly certain that in order to be a sponsor at a baptism you have to be present. You can’t do it by proxy. (A bit like a witness at a wedding). I don’t think you can do it remotely. The broad idea is for the sponsor to ensure that the child follows a spiritual life, by example, and by interacting with it.  Not something that’s easy to do if you are 3000 miles away. (And I think you need to satisfy the priest that you are eligible to be a sponsor ie by being an adult, confirmed and RC. So you would really need to be there to do that).

I looked in the tithe applotment records for the parish of Forkill. It lists families who had land. There were no McArdle households listed in Carrive in 1828. There were 3 living in Shean. 2 McCanns in Carriff (Carrive). That tends to suggest that John McCardle and his family had either left the townland by 1828 or were agricultural labourers or others without land.  They might have been living with their in-laws but they aren’t listed in their own right.

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/armagh/tithe-applotments/forkill-paris…

Griffiths Valuation in 1864 has 3 McCanns in the townland. Margaret, Peter & Patrick. All adjacent and probably related. Margaret was probably a widow. She had land only (ie no house) so presumably lived with Peter or Patrick. They both had farmhouses as well as land. No McArdles. Griffiths did list many without land so that points to the McArdles having gone from the townland by 1864.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch

2 McCann farms in Carrive in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Forkhill/Carriff/1032819/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Forkhill/Carriff/1032823/

No McArdles in the townland in 1901. (Population then was 235).

There are no comprehensive records in Ireland indicating when someone left. It wasn’t really information anyone needed. (I don’t suppose such records exist today either). The absence of most of the pre 1901 censuses means it’s hard to say when someone left. You have to hope they were mentioned in land records, but labourers, servants and those without land rarely get a mention. It was possible to live most of your life below officialdom’s radar and prior to the start of statutory birth, death & marriage registration (1864) it can be hard to trace them.

I had a look at the deaths in the Newry registration area (which covers Forkill) for the years 1864 – 1901. There were 6 John McArdle deaths. To have had 5 children by 1821, your John & Catherine had to have been born before 1800. None of the 6 are of the right age or profession.

There were 5 Catherine McArdles. Only 2 are old enough. One died 1866 aged 84 and another 1872 aged 74. Neither of those certificates is available to view free yet. You can view the original certificates on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option:

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate.

So no clear information on whether the McArdles remained in Ireland. They might have left, or they may just have moved.  For every person who left Ireland for Canada or America there were twice as many who went to Scotland and England (where there was plenty of work available) and without some clues it can be hard to track them down. These are common names.

I notice a tree on Ancestry (Madsen Walsh McCann) which has daughter Catherine married to James O’Brien 29.5.1841 in Perth, Lanark, Ontario and dying 1870 in Perry, Buchanan, Iowa. Same tree has James marrying Ellen Hickey 17.3.1851 Will, Illinois and also dying in Perry, Iowa, in 1870.

Elwyn .......

Thank you very much for your quick reply.   Just to close the loop and to ask a question.

First I agree with the comments on using a proxy, however, I found a couple of local Catholic Priests here who were assigned to Canada and who disagree with us.  They say that using proxies at baptisms and confirmations is not unusual and has been happening "forever" in both Ireland and Canada.  Who knew.

On finding the John and Catherine McArdles after 1821 in Ireland it does not sound like it will happen unless we have a stroke of luck.

It turns out that the (Maden Walsh McCann) tree you reference is managed by Terri McCann who is my 4th Cousin.  I know her and she and I have been emailing for a number of years.  Your are correct that Catherine McArdle O'Brien is the daughter or John and Catherine McArdle.  What you may not know is that Micheal McArdle, Catherine McArdle, and James McArdle, John and Catherine children, all lived in Perry Township at the same time and within a stones throw of each other.  That was a surprise to me.

The question:  We have found a John McArdle with a birth date of 9 December 1786 with a baptism place of Ardee, Louth, Ireland, Diocese of Armagh and with the parents of John McArdle and Margret Mathews (nli microfilm 05601/3).  So given the numbers of John McArdles and the Catherine McCann in Ireland do you think are we talking about the same family?

Thanks,

Phil Jones

 

Phil,

I wouldn’t like to say definitely whether the Louth family is yours. It could be but I suspect not.

Forkhill RC baptism records only start in 1845 so there’s no way of telling whether your family were baptised there. Ardee parish in Louth obviously has older records and that has enabled you to identify a family there. You could try searching the Ardee records to see if the family stayed there. Obviously if they were there in the early 1800s, it’s probably a different family.

Both names are pretty common in those counties. It’s possibly just another couple with the same names. Looking at the 1901 census of Armagh there were 89 McCardles and 1097 McCanns. In Louth there were 166 McArdles and 330 McCanns.

No McMardles anywhere in Ireland by the way. That’s probably a transcription error or a spelling acquired after the family left Ireland.

Good evening All -

Hi Cousin Philip! Sorry for joining late to this discussion. But as John and Catherine's son married Mary McCann, I thought I might toss some of that information in here to see if that will assist. What I do know about the McCann familly is that Mary looks to have been born about 1819 (d 1896) or so to parents Arthur McCann (abt 1777-1852) and Anne Quinn (abt 1886-1864). We are of the belief that the family and the younger children of Arthur and Anne went to Canada around 1838-1840, while other older children may have stayed on. The other McCann children who are in Canada are as follows  Rose Ann McCann Toale (1825-1886 - married Michael Toale) John McCann (1826-1854 married Sarah Coburn of Shean Forkhill), Michael J. McCann (1830-1910 married Ann Kearns, Bridget Donnelly) and Elizabeth McCann (1833-1877 Married Peter Carberry). I know there are a number of McCann households in Forkhill, I do not have a coopy of the 1821 census myself, to know which townland would be home to this family and surviving records from Canada only mention Forkhill, County Armagh. We are not sure if Mary and Michael married in Armagh or of they married in Canada. The other children married in Canada. Would you happen to have access to the 1821 census infomation to know if any families were headed by an Arthur and Anne? Would any of this help in connecting Philip to the McArdles.

Thanks and blessings,

Terri McCann-Michalski

Hi Terri ......

I am going to keep this short, just to close the loop on this web site.  First, thank you for your information, I had some of it but you did fill in a number of holes I had.  I have all the information I need to link myself to John McArdle and Catherine McCann.  The information I needed came from the 1821 Irish Census, a fragment of which is contained in he book "Kick Any Stone" published in 2003 by the Mullaghbawn Community Association.  I do not have a copy of this book but will send you the name of a person in Canada that does have a copy.  The name of the Townland you asked about is Carrive in the Forkhill Parish.  I will send you a copy of the page in question.

You and some other of our cousins will also be getting some interesting information from me, in a few days - I hope.  Information on Michael McArdle/McCardle and Mary McCann that I just received from the U.S. National Archives.

Thanks,

Phil

 

Arriving to the party quite late. Hello all. I believe the John and Margaret are my ancestors... awaiting new dna matches and running the ones I have matched with to a common ancestor. That seems to be the more time consuming task. Loved reading your communications. 
 

Elise Ullom
 

 

Elise .........

Welcome to our party.  Can't wait to learn more about your information and details on John and Margaret.  We as a group have pushed our Irish ancestors back where we are looking for the parents of John McArdle and Catherine McCann and we are looking at few strings to pull and fewer leads to follow.  If John and Margaret are your ancestors, then maybe we are related, that would be great, however, we may be looking at a long shot.  Our McArdles came to Canada (Ontario) and then later some came to the U.S.; some of them stayed in Canada.  We have also found that the name McArdle is spelled many many different ways in the U.S. Federal Census and in the Canadian church records by the priest that baptize my ancestors.  Our Canadian folks are in Ontario, some of the U.S. folks are outside of Chicago and I am in Maryland.  Where are you located and what is the sort version of you possible link to John and Margaret?

Thanks,

Phil Jones

Thank you, Phil!  

 

Apologies for the length of time in responding.  I am in the USA.  McArdles and McCardles both... Jess/John McArdle (possibly Jefse?) and his son John McCardle (in later documents) They came in to the Virginia area early and were some of the first settelers in what would eventually become West Virginia (Almost Heaven:)  I have  created a Gedmatch account for DNA matching, and am on Ancestry.  I do have some Canadian distant family on Ancestry, but have yet to find the common ancestor.  Thank you for your response.  

 

Regards,

 

Elise

Still looking for McArdle/McCardle ancestors and cousins.  Have a Gedmatch profile and am on Ancestry.  

Hope all of you are well.

 

Elise

Hi all

My maternal grand mothers paternal line is McArdle.

We know from our family records that Patrick McArdle (1775-1850), first of Glen Ardle (now Strath Ardle) Perthshire Scotland left in a hurry and moved to County Armagh, Ireland in 1788. This was a direct consequence of their support for Bonnie Prince Charles and his death in 1788.

Patrick and wife Annie Vaughan had many issue. My 3rd ggf is Hugh Mcardle. He had a brother John and a son John Mcardle.

Most McArdles moved. Some went to Liverpool or back to scotland re-settling first in Glasgow, nd then Edinburgh, between 1830-1850.

From Liverpool, our branch migrated to Melbourne, circa 1862. We know that some males left Ireland before 1837 and migrated to USA, and two maiden McArdles moved to Ontario, Canada marrying Mr Thompson and James Dagg.

We long suspect the maidens Mcardle migrated there with their parents and brother(s). The maidens, Mrs Thompson and Mrs Dagg remained in upper North Canada, whilst it is probable, their brotgers moved to the USA, circa 1842.

It is this trail of Xmas that gives some hope we in Melbourne, may be reconnecting with our clan in Canada, USA and with the one branch we believe remained in Ireland post 1860.

I hope this helps and pleased to expand.

Cheers
John Guest
Grandson, Emily Florence Matilda Mcardle (1909-1976)
Melbourne Australia

Hi all

My maternal grand mothers paternal line is McArdle.

We know from our family records that Patrick McArdle (1775-1850), first of Glen Ardle (now Strath Ardle) Perthshire Scotland left in a hurry and moved to County Armagh, Ireland in 1788. This was a direct consequence of their support for Bonnie Prince Charles and his death in 1788.

Patrick and wife Annie Vaughan had many issue. My 3rd ggf is Hugh Mcardle. He had a brother John and a son John Mcardle.

Most McArdles who were first generation born in Ireland moved. Some went to Liverpool or back to Scotland re-settling first in Glasgow, and then Edinburgh, between 1830-1850.

From Liverpool, our branch migrated to Melbourne, circa 1862. We know that some male collateral relatives left Ireland before 1837 and migrated to USA, and two maiden McArdles moved to Ontario, Canada marrying Mr Thompson and James Dagg.

We long suspect the maidens Mcardle migrated there with their parents and brother(s). The maidens, Mrs Thompson and Mrs Dagg remained in upper North Canada, whilst it is probable, their brothers moved to the USA, circa 1842.

It is this trail of emails that gives some hope we in Melbourne, may be reconnecting with our clan in Canada, USA and with the one branch we believe remained in Ireland post 1860.

I hope this helps and pleased to expand.

Cheers
John Guest
Grandson, Emily Florence Matilda Mcardle (1909-1976)
Melbourne Australia

John ……

I have been researching my McArdle/McCardle (and many other spelling) for a number of years and have mostly run my branch and their offspring to ground.  I also think we, our Canadian group, have almost no information on John McArdle and Catherine McCann but have a better handle on their children.  I should note that our McArdles are Roman Catholic and attended St. Edwards church in Westport, Ontario and came from the Forkhill, County Armagh area sometime around the late 1830s.

We as far as I know, we have never run across any Mrs. Thompson or Mrs. Dagg in our research but there appears to be number of McArdles in Upper Canada and Ontario in the 1830s that arrived earlier than my folks.  Our research has been in the Westport, Leeds, Ontario area.

We also have a Mrs. Rose Hughes McArdle who died January 4, 1869 who was the widow of Brian McArdle, a native of Armagh, Ireland who died January 2, 1869 aged 84 years.  I have no clue who these two folks were but maybe they fit into your family tree.  They are buried in the St. Edwards cemetery.

Thanks,

Phil

Annapolis, MD, USA

Hello! 

 

I am from Ontario, looking for information on the McArdle family! This is a tricky one. 

 

My grandfather, John Anthony McArdle, was adopted by Hugh McArdle and Hannah "Jennie" Crowley in or around 1933. 

 

The story goes, his aunt Ellen "Nelly" martin (nee McArdle) was his biological mother but gave him to Hugh for unknown reasons. 

 

After doing my DNA test, I have a first cousin named Charles McDougall who married Helen Elizabeth rose Hamilton in Lanark/Perth county, Ontario. 

 

I'm wondering if my McArdle family could be connected to yours? The location of my DNA seems to fit but I can't find any McArdle names up there myself. 

 

My family of mcardles first lived in Hamilton Ontario, then moved to Toronto. Hugh came overseas with an older man named Patrick Reid who went on to live with them (listed on census as gardener?) Until his death in the 1950s. 

 

All I know about Hugh McArdle ancestry, is that they were from Ireland, and moved to Scotland sometime before 1880's. On his married certificate his parents are listed as Hugh McArdle and Ellen Burns. I have found a census with Ellen Burns living in Scotland with a John Martin, the daughter Ellen Martin and Hugh McArdle listed thereunder which makes me think Ellen was actually his stepsisters. the Crowley's in my family were from cork, and I'm not sure how Hannah met Hugh. 

 

My grandfather John Anthony married a woman named Marie-Claire Smith, who ironically was also adopted. 

Hamilton....... Sorry it took so long to get back to you but I had a few other issues we were dealing with. However, after your long wait, I'm sorry to have to say that none of your names or information matches anything I have found in my family line nor with anything I have run across in my research. I did take the liberty to contact my McArdle cousins who live in Ontario and they said that they also do not match up with any of the folks you mentioned in your request. That being said, I should note that there seems to be at least a few other McArdle families living in the Ontario based on some of the Canadian Census documents I have seen from the early 1800s. I also several years ago tried to contact a McArdle family living in Toronto with no luck. Sorry I couldn't be of better help to you. Thanks, Phil