Gilmour family from Knockaraven

Doug,

The marriage certificate names Ellen’s father as William, a farmer. She was married in Dromore Presbyterian church. Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church, so that may be where she and any siblings were baptised. Dromore Presbyterian’s records start in 1835 so that might be too late for her but you might find some younger siblings. There’s a copy of the records in PRONI in Belfast. I don’t think they are on-line anywhere.

I looked for children born to Robert & Ellen 1864 onwards in the statutory records but did not find any. For children born before that you would need to search the church baptism records.

The Valuation Revision records list Gilmours on several different farms in Knockaraven.  Plot 1 was Robert (William), plot 3 was James, plot 4 was Robert (deceased) with the tenant now being “Mrs Gilmour”, plots 5,6 & 7 were all held by Robert. The Robert in plot 1 is likely a different Robert to the others. You can follow through to see subsequent changes of occupant using the Valuation revision records:

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/services/searching-valuation-revision-books

3 Gilmour farms in the townland in the 1901 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Camderry/Knockaraven/1741379/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Camderry/Knockaraven/1741380/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Camderry/Knockaraven/1741381/

I noted these probate abstracts for Gilmour of Knockaraven in the PRONI wills site:

The Will of Alexander Gilmore late of Knockaraven in the County of Tyrone Weaver deceased who died 12 July 1865 at same place was proved at Londonderry by the oath of Catherine Gilmore of Knockaraven (Dromore) aforesaid Widow one of the Executors.

The above will is on-line. He left everything to wife Catherine.

Administration of the estate of Robert Gilmour late of Knockaraven Dromore County Tyrone Farmer who died 15 January 1904 granted at Londonderry to Matthew Gilmour Farmer.

The Tyrone Constitution of 1st October 1909 reports a court case at Mid Tyrone Revision Sessions in which a Robert Gilmour of Knockaraven had had his right to vote challenged by Nationalists in the area. There’s a Q & A: Have you a farm in Knockaraven? Yes. Are you the tenant there? Yes. How did you get possession of it? By my father’s will, which was produced 2 years ago in Dromore. I did not think it necessary to bring it here. What is Mathew Gilmour to you? I could not tell; it is far out if it is anything. Are you sure there was a will made? Quite sure. When was probate taken out? It was produced 2 years ago. Does anyone live with you? My sister lives with me. Who took out probate for you? Was it a solicitor? No. Who was it then? It was the supervisor. His honour – Why did you go to the supervisor? You will get into trouble about it. What did you pay him? I paid him £3 5s, and believed it was all right. Mr O’Connor – We don’t object to people going to the Excise, as it generally ends in more litigation. His honour – I cannot understand why people will do things this way. They will go to the supervisor for probate, and they will get the schoolmaster to draw up and agreement. (To witness) - That supervisor will soon be round to you for some extra taxes (Laughter).

The background to the above case is that Home Rule was being discussed in Ireland at the time and would likely be voted on. There wasn’t a universal franchise then and the right to vote was linked to having land of a certain value.  Both Nationalists and Unionists tried to get people struck off the voting register on various grounds including not having any land or not actually residing there. (Many people were away working in Scotland & England but their names somehow remained on the electoral register in Ireland.) The comments about probate are just an interesting social aside. When someone died people didn’t always like paying a solicitors and instead they approached people they respected eg the local schoolmaster or the local supervisor of Customs & Excise (being educated people) and asked them to help with the work. Mr Gilmour seems to have done that.  The solicitor’s comments that he was happy with such arrangements was because they often led to more work for him! Presumably they made mistakes!

Maria Gilmour of Knockaraven signed the Ulster Covenant in 1912. (You can see her signature on the Covenant Site). So that tells you a little about her political views (ie against Home Rule).

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/services/search-ulster-covenant

Thank you once again Elwyn. Is is appropriate to post my email on this site ? I would like to correspond directly with you. If not that's ok I will use the board. 

Doug,

You can E-mail me on ahoghill@irelandxo.com

Our conversation will not be visible on this board.

We also have Gilmour( Gilmore) relatives from Knockaraven. James and Matilda Gilmore were  from there.  They had nine children, James died around 1845, Matilda and children sailed to America after his death.  Would love to connect this family to yours.  Can you help?  They also belonged to the Presbeterian church on Omagh.  Listed in Oghill earlier.  Any info would be appreciated.  thanks  Daryl Gilmore

 Hi Daryl

So as much as I would like to say we can work together on this and devlop our shared history I dont think I can...unless there was some funny business going on!  I have a Matilda Gilmour in my family . Gilmour was her maiden name. She married a James Patterson from Aughnamoe just east of the town of Dromore and died if I remember correctly when she was 50 and is buried at the Dromore Pres Churchyard. Maybe she faked her death and sailed to the US but I dont think so. She had a brother named Robert who married an Ellen Gilmour from Knockaraven. Maybe Ellen is related to your Gilmours (Gilmores)?

Matilda and Robert had a brother named James and he emmigrated but I havent followed up too much on him yet. so again not a match unless he faked his death and slipped over to North America!  Not trying to make light of it but it just doesnt seem to be a match.

So i think the only possibility would be linked by marriage...my Robert Gilmour who married Ellen Gilmour from Knockaraven and she may be related to your James.

Ive sort of hit a brick wall going back any further. I will ask though, your Gilmour relations from Knockaraven, do you have any information on where they came from before they settled there. Our story is my relations came from a Scottish Island and before that France. I am wondering if they were part of the Huguenot movement and I am searching my thoughts in that regard but the father you go back the less and less info there is. 

Sorry I cant be of more help.

Doug 

Hi Doug,

I am seeking information on the Matilda and James Patterson that you wrote of above.  I believe that James was the brother to my Great Great Grandfather Alexander (I am still trying to prove this).  They both list their father as William Patterson, whom I have found to have a farm in Aughnamoe Townland.   I would appreciate if you could share any information that you might have on the family.  I have a tree on Ancestry - I would love to invite you to take a look at it and see if I am on the right track with the family. Looking forward to heariing more!

-Jill Hunter Rumbarger

Hi Doug,

I am seeking information on the Matilda and James Patterson that you wrote of above.  I believe that James was the brother to my Great Great Grandfather Alexander (I am still trying to prove this).  They both list their father as William Patterson, whom I have found to have a farm in Aughnamoe Townland.   I would appreciate if you could share any information that you might have on the family.  I have a tree on Ancestry - I would love to invite you to take a look at it and see if I am on the right track with the family. Looking forward to heariing more!

-Jill Hunter Rumbarger

Daryl

in looking back at the message board to see if anyone can solve my mystery I re-read your post. In the couple of years that have passed I believe we have some people in common. 
the James/Matilda Gilmour you mentioned emigrated or at least Matilda did, James died in the last 1840’s I believe (46 or 47).

my DNA was matched with some of the relations living in the US and in corresponding with them I think that our link is that James (who died) and William (my ancestor) may have been brothers.

id like to follow up with you and see if we can confirm this and perhaps other theories I have developed. 

later in my original thread a person named Jill followed up with me and we were able to sort out a lot of info in common. She has been a terrific help and was able to fill in a lot of missing links. Maybe we can do some similar things

Hello Doug and Daryl,

My 4x-great-grandparents on my mother's side were James and Matilda Gilmore. I can only go back as far as James, who passed away in the 1840's, and would love more information on this side of the family. I can find nothing on Matilda, other than her immigration. My 3x-great-grandparents were James Gilmore (James and Matilda's son) and Elizabeth McCaskey. I have hit an immovable brick wall on Elizabeth, I only know that she was born in Ireland. I have found a little bit of information on her life after she and James got married, but nothing before that. I do not know where she was born, when she came to America, or who she came over with. Any information you have on them would help. I love knowing that there are more people out there like me who just want to know where they came from, and are having a hard time finding it. 

I have attached a couple of pictures that I have found of my ancestors. The couple is James and Elizabeth.

Thank  you so much,

Molly Sanders

Hello Molly, well more puzzles to solve I guess. Thanks for reaching out as you never know when something may turn up or a link is made with someone who knows just a little bit more. Since I started this thread I have learned lots and discovered many things. McCaskey…., so this is interesting. I did a quick search and found McCaskeys in a few places. Since you said this is a road block I will ask a few questions anyway, do you know how old Elizabeth was when she died?Any obituary? No hints on whether James and Elizabeth knew  each other in Ireland or found each other in the US?

jill who I mentioned earlier in the thread has been sooo helpful. She sent me some church records and I will look at them to see if McCaskey is mentioned in them. It’s a long shot but you never know. It’s the church that the Gilmours attended.

do you have a tree developed on ancestry? I’d like to take a look.

we definitely share some DNA I believe as I think your James’ uncle is my third gg father (William). Although I have not found any paper proof of that, there is much to point to that being true. Add to that I have some DNA matches with descendants of James and Matilda so James and William were related.

there is another DNA match of mine that although I have reached out to her for a response none has happened. Her info leads me to believe that James and William Gilmour may have had another brother named Robert. That is her line. She has on her tree their father also being James. Now I know that this was a common name but with the naming conventions of the day in our line , James and Robert seem to show up quite a bit. As circumstantial evidence goes it’s a bit of a reach but just one more puzzle piece that seems to belong.

So let’s see what we can figure out

doug