Looking for Terence McGurren born 1843 wife Alice Keenan born 1851

Kathryn,

The spelling of peoples names and place names varies all the time in Ireland so will find multiple spellings. Some flexibility is required when searching databases for them all.

The year that Terence and Alice married was 1869 (and not 1849 as in your message). Here’s a link to their civil marriage certificate:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1869/11420/8194384.pdf

Both came from farming families.

Terence’s father was Patrick and they lived in Crockareddy townland. He farmed plots 4 & 5 a total of around 39 acres. The farm today is on the Cleenish Rd, near Bellanaleck.

Patrick died at Crockareddy on 10.9.1893 aged 91. The informant was his grandson James Owens, also of Crockareddy.

The townland of Crockareddy looks to be missing from the 1901 Irish census. Here’s a McGuran family (and the Owens who are clearly related) in the 1911 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Fermanagh/Drumane/Crockareddy/517444/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Fermanagh/Drumane/Croc…

I found a birth for Owen Magurin at Crockareddy 2.10.1887 and from that I know his parents were John Magurin & Catherine Dolan. They married 26th April 1881. John’s address was Crockareddy and his father was James Maguran (dead), farmer. Griffiths Valuation lists James on plot 7 in the townland (ie next door to Patrick) so he was presumably a relation of some sort.

Probate abstracts:

Probate of the Will of the late John Magurn, otherwise McGurn, Crockareddy, Co. Fermanagh, Farmer, who died 13 March 1919, granted at Armagh 20 December 1919 to Catherine McGurn, the widow and Patrick McGurn, Farmer, the son. Effects: £379.

The above will is on-line on the PRONI wills site. It mentions his wife Catherine, daughter Mary Anne, son Patrick and son John (Now in America).

Owens James of Crockareddy Belnaleck county Fermanagh farmer died 2 October 1947 Administration Londonderry 26 September to Annie Elizabeth Owens spinster. Effects £330 5s.

Alice’s father was Bernard Keenan and in 1862 he is listed in Griffiths Valuation as farming plot 7 in Rossavally townland. That was a 17 acre farm. Today that farm is on the Derrylin Rd near RD Tyres. (Rossavally & Crockareddy are immediately beside each other, so Terence more or less married the girl next door).

You can see the locations using the maps on the Griffiths Valuation site:

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch

Family in 1901 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Fermanagh/Drumane/Tossavalley/1365801/

And 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Fermanagh/Drumane/Rossavally/517482/

Probate abstracts from the PRONI wills site:

The Will of Bernard Keenan late of Rossawilla County Fermanagh Farmer who died 2 February 1891 at same place was proved at Armagh by Alexander M'Connell of Tully said County Farmer one of the Executors.

Letters of Administration of the personal estate of Brian Keenan late of Roosavally County Fermanagh Farmer who died 25 April 1895 at same place were granted at Armagh to Catherine Keenan of Rossavally the Widow.

Bernard’s will is on-line and can be read on the PRONI wills site. It mentions his wife Mary and three sons Thomas, Francis & Bernard. (So they were evidently Alice’s brothers).

Bernard was 81 when he died. Son Thomas was the informant:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1891/06081/4734379.pdf

The 1901 census tells you the farmhouse had 3 windows at the front, stone walls, 2 to 4 rooms and was probably thatched. There was a stable, a cow house, a dairy, a piggery and a barn.

You ask why your ancestors might have left Ireland, and why Australia. Tradition in Ireland was to leave the farm to the eldest son. The farms were too small to be subdivided and there wasn’t any spare land. Other sons therefore had to make their own way in the world. Ireland has very few natural resources (no oil, coal, iron ore etc) and so did not benefit from the industrial revolution in the 1800s, the way Scotland, England, the US, Canada & Australia did, which created hundreds of thousands of comparatively well-paid new jobs in new industries (coal mining, steel making, railways, ship building etc). So that was a big pull factor. There had also been a huge population explosion in Ireland going up from about 3 million people in 1750 to 8 million in 1830. There simply weren’t jobs for all those people. In much of Ireland the only employment was subsistence farming topped up in Ulster and one or two other areas with a bit of linen weaving. And then the straw that broke the camel’s back, along came the famine, numerous times throughout the 1800s. The worst period was when the potato crop failed almost completely 3 years in a row in the late 1840s, and then partially several more years after that.

Other factors led to the continued emigration too, eg early mechanisation on farms. With new machines to turn the soil and plant seed, farmers no longer needed an army of agricultural labourers to help on the farm. So those jobs were rapidly disappearing. Likewise mechanisation had led to linen factories being set up in places like Belfast. These made home weaving uneconomic and so also upset the labourer’s family economy. Agriculture was the biggest single employer in Ireland, but it was mostly a barter economy. Few people had any ready cash save what they could make from weaving or any government sponsored work such as building new roads. So when the opportunity arose to get jobs with a regular wage packet, as opposed to a few pence from your father each week, the decision to migrate wasn’t really all that hard to make. So it was as much about economic betterment as anything.

There was a massive tide of migration all through that century, including long before the famine. Years after the worst of the famine it’s impact was still being felt across Ireland, and there were still plenty of much better job opportunities in Australia and the USA. (After Scotland and England, the USA was the most popular destination for emigrants with about 40 to 50% choosing it. Only about 5% of Irish emigrants chose Australia and New Zealand, possibly due to the costs and length of the voyage, though quite a lot of folk from Fermanagh did choose Australia. Presumably they wrote home and others followed).

Hi. 

I am trying to get information on my relative Thomas McGurren. I believe his father was Patrick. 

Thomas was born in 1834 in Cockareddy, Cleenish, Fermanagh.

He emigrated to Australia on 8/8/1854 (age 20). He died in 1910 at Sydney. 

I believe he had a brother Terence (1843-1905) & a sister Margaret (1845-1906).

Any information to confirm this would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you. Tom.

Tom,

I think the Terence you mention is likely to be the family already detailed in this thread. (There are only 3 houses in the townland and just 1 McGurren family in 1911, so if you know your ancestor came from Crockareddy, then this really has to be your family in some way or other).

Griffiths Valuation for 1862 list 3 McGurn farms in the townland held by James, Patrick & Mary. (Mary was probably a widow).

The 1911 census shows a John McGurren married to Catherine Dolan. They married in 1881. Here’s their marriage certificate which shows his father was James (deceased) who was also a farmer.  A brother to Patrick perhaps?

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_re…

Next door were the Owens. Elizabeth Magurran who married Patrick Owens, a policeman. Here’s the birth of their son James (informant at  Patrick’s death. So she’s your direct line):

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1874/03137/2150336.pdf

So it looks as though Margaret, Thomas & Terence had a sister Elizabeth who married Patrick Owens.  And she appears to have acquired the family farm by 1911. Presumably because her siblings had left.

A number of trees on Ancestry show Patrick dying in 1868 in Londonderry. I think that’s wrong. He looks to have died at home in Crockareddy, Fermanagh in 1893.

Crockareddy is in the RC parish of Cleenish. Their baptism records cover the years 1835-1839 and then 1859 onwards. Marriages don’t start till 1866. If there were any earlier records they have been lost. So tracing back much further will be challenging and some  of the years you need for say Terence’s baptism are missing.

James McGurren farming in Crockareddy in 1834 according to the tithes. I don’t see Patrick listed.

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/fermanagh/tithe-applotment-books/paris…

Hi Elwyn. Thanks for that information.

I replied yesterday but not sure if I hit right button to send, so I will repeat message.

On Thomas' emigration papers it says that Patrick (father) & Margaret (mother) were still in Crockareddy, Cleenish, Fermanagh.

He was sponsored out here by a Mary Fitzgerald, who also sponsored (with Thomas'help) Margaret & Anne J McGurren.

Thank you for letting me know about Elizabeth, I didn't know about her. Would you have any further info about her please.

ie. Her life on the farm, family, any future relos etc. I am very interested to find out what i can about the Irish side of the family &

how they lived their lives. I was coming to Ireland last August for 4 weeks to do some ancestry on the family, but covid hit & put a stop

to it. I fear I may never get over there now as my wife is ill & that was to be our last big trip. 

Regards Tom

Thank you Elwyn for all this information which has helped me understand my ancestors lives and I think their lives were quite difficult here too.  They had many children and over the generations gave us the gift of living in a bountiful country and being blessed with many work opportunites and able to live in peace and happiness here.  I will pass this knowledge onto others in my family and they will be very pleased.

I have found Terence and Alices' resting place in Rookwood Cemetary in Sydney and visit them from time to time and they are surrounded by their fellow counrtymen who left their home and families never to return.  

Much appreciated

Kathryn

All- if you have not considered DNA testing, I would highly recommend it.  I tested at Family Tree DNA as did a responder to my posts here.  We matched!   Now I know so much more about the origins of my paternal line.   FTDNA does have an autosomal test called Family Finder ( for males and females) as it will identify relationships no further back than 400-500 yrs ago.  The maximum seems to be 5th cousins.  Then you start connecting with matches to share what you know.  It has been a help.  Good hunting.  

Tom,

You ask about the Owens farm. If you go to the 1911 census, you can click on the out-offices link. You will see that their house had a stable, coach house, & a cow house. The house & building return tells you the walls were brick or stone and that the roof was almost certainly thatched. There were 4 rooms and 3 windows at the front of the building.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Fermanagh/Drumane/Crockareddy/517443/

From the Valuation revision books on the PRONI website, I can see that the farm was 21 acres and that ownership passed from Elizabeth to James in 1920. So presumably she died around that time. They owned the freehold of the farm having bought it under the Land Act ie with a government mortgage, probably around 1910.

https://apps.proni.gov.uk/Val12B/Search.aspx

James died intestate in 1947 but his unmarried sister was still alive as she dealt with the probate. I had a look at the modern phone book to see if any Owens are still listed for Crockareddy. Postcode BT92. I did not see any but many people don’t have a land line any more so that’s not conclusive.

Here’s Elizabeth’s death in 1919:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

I have attached a few photos of typical buildings of that general area. They are actually from a museum in Donegal and are a bit smarter than any normal working farm but it should give you a rough idea.

A general description of the county written in 1837:

https://irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/history-and-genealogy/timeline/county-…

I also have a McGurn come to Australia - Elizabeth McGurn born approx 1817 in Cleenish Fermenagh. I have her parents as homas Mcguire McGurran and Ann/Elizabeth Shannon

came to Australia about 1855 with husband James Goan and 6 children

have never been able to trace the Irish connections.  Anyone maybe help please...  cheers

and as a coincidence, the daughter of Elizabeth McGurn (married name Goan) their first daughter had a son named Terence

Hello,my name is Bill Callahan and my mother Ruth MacDonald"s mother was Sarah mcgurn (magoren) from cleenish area.Ruth has taken a DNA test and i would love to follow up with you.Bill Callahan