John Mathews/Matthews and Mary Lyster/Lester

Hi Julie,

The need for dispensation as a result of "consang" (consanguinity) implies that they were related in some way.  Second-degree consanguinity (which is what that notation appears to say) may mean that they shared grandparents or a grandparent (perhaps step-cousins?).  

I hope you find more help from your post here.  Best of luck!

Amy O'Keefe

Julie,

The Dr Dorrian referred to in the marriage records was Dr Patrick Dorrian, Bishop of Down & Connor until his death in 1885. So he granted the dispensation for them to marry.  That’s not unusual to see in the records. Lots of people who were distantly related got married, and the parish priest often had to seek the Bishop’s permission. There were occasionally other reasons for granting dispensations but it’s clear from the records you have found that the issue in this case was consanguinity.

I have looked for the births of the 3 children but like you cannot find them, nor can I see a death for Julia. Possibly the events simply weren’t registered.

Have you looked for baptism records for the 3 children in Belfast?  RC records are mostly on-line on the nli site:  

https://www.nli.ie/en/family-history-introduction.aspx

One aspect that puzzles me slightly is John’s occupation of “iron miner.” There are no iron mines in or close to Belfast. So where did he work? The nearest ones I am aware of were around Cargan and Martinstown east of Ballymena (about 30 miles or more from Belfast).  I had a look for births and a death in that area too, but without success. Or were the family in England or Scotland for a year or two (plenty of mines in both)?

Sorry, but I cannot add anything else to your existing knowledge.

Hi Amy and Elwyn,

Thank you for your replies.   I have looked in England for John James Mathews' birth but there are so many of them I can;t narrow it down.  I will look in Scotland.  Were there any mines in Wales?  If so, would they be English records or Welch?

Julie

Elwyn, I was interested in your comment that John's record showed that he was an "iron miner".  Could it possibly have been "ironmonger"?  That seems more likely. Perhaps it was not transcribed properly. Just a thought.  Amy O'Keefe

Amy,

The words seem pretty clear to me. Iron Miner are two separate words on the original birth certificate. You can see for yourself on this link:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03036/2113129.pdf

The birth was actually registered twice (obviously a mistake) but the second, deleted, entry also contains the same words. So two opportunities to assess it and I am sure both cannot be interpreted in any other way:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03036/2113117.pdf

Hello,

I hope there is still a way to follow this thread. 

Since my first post I have found more information on the John Matthews family. John Matthews and Mary Lester (Lyster) were married in June 1874. in St. Peter's R.C. Church. 

In March of 1875 Thomas Henry Matthews was born In Whitehaven, Cumbria, England.  John was working as an iron miner.  Due to a dispensation that was needed to confirm the marriage in the RC. church, John and Mary were married again in Nov. of 1875 at St. Peter's in Belfast. 

In 1876 Julia Matthews was born in Belfast.  She died in 1877. 

The family went back to Cumbria (Cumberland) England where John worked in the iron mines, in 1879 Mary Elizabeth was born and 1881 Elizabeth was born.  The 1881 English Census for Cleator, Cumberland  The family is listed as: John Matthews, born in Ireland and Mary his wife born in Whitcross, Armagh  with John James (my grandfther) age 7 born in Ireland, Thomas age 6 born in Cumberland and Mary age 1 born in Cumberland.  (Apparently Elizabeth was not born at the time the census was taken). In 1883 another daughter was born in Cumbria and given the name of Julia.

The family then immigrated to the United States where John along with several of his sons worked in the coal mines in Shenandoah, Pennsylvania. 

Several more children were born in Pennsylvania.  1885 Edward Francis, 1887 Joseph Michael, 1889 Margaret, 1891 Patrick Theodore and 1894 Catherine. 

I have not been able to find a birth certificate for my grand father, John James Matthews.  Every reference I can find for him taken while his parents were still alive say he was born in Ireland.  He gave his birth date as Sept. 1878.  According to the 1881 English Census he is older than Thomas (b. 1875).  

In 1900 Census the Matthews family was living in Newton, Massachusetts.  I have taken a DNA test and have found many connections to this family.  My DNA kit number is KX1010308 on Ged Match.  I also have a tree on Ancestry. The Matthews Tree.

If anyone can help me find birth information on John James Matthews I would be most appreciative.  I will share any information I have on this family. Thank for you patience reading this long post.

Julie Rizzello nee Matthews

Julie,

I am glad my suggestion of searching English & Scottish records paid off and you found your family in Cumberland. There was a regular ferry service from Belfast to Barrow in those days and it was an easy journey.

If John James was older than Thomas who was born in March 1875, then the arithmetic points to John James having been born in the first 6 months of 1874 (or earlier).  That being so, he must have been born before John & Mary married.  So might be registered under the mother’s name only. I searched 1873 & 1874 for a John Lester/Lyster but without success. Also tried “unknown” as many children were registered without a forename, but again without success.

Sorry, but like you, I cannot find his birth in Ireland.