Murdoch (various spellings), Cleland, Hamilton- all in Killyleagh

Murdoch, Cleland & Hamilton are all common Scottish surnames in Co Down. You ask if there are any still living in Killyleagh or anywhere in Co. Down. In the 1911 census there were 129 Murdochs, 251 Cleland and 1761 Hamiltons in the county. Narrowing that to Killyleagh village there were no Murdochs, 6 Clelands & 20 Hamiltons.

I searched the local phone book for the Killyleagh area (postcode BT30). I found 22 Murdochs, 25 Clelands & 111 Hamiltons. Given that most people aren’t listed in the phone book these days there are presumably many more than that. It’s not our policy to give out details of living people but you can find them easily enough using the UK phone book. https://www.ukphonebook.com

Thank you for your reply. And no, I'm not asking about anyone specific. I wouldn't know who to ask for anyway. This is a general question to see if they are names that are still around or might have died out due to families immigrating to other countries. It's also a reach out to anyone of those surnames if they're in the forum. My earliest trackable ancestors are the Murdogh's, William and Jennett Murchland Murdogh, who married in either 1663 or 1668 in Scotland at Paisley Cathedral. They moved to Ireland and their son William was born in Northern Ireland in 1700. They also had at least three other sons, Hugh, Adam, and James. William's baptismal records are said to be at First Presbyterian Church in Killyleagh.

William married Martha HAMILTON. Their son Hamilton Murdoch (spelling change) was born in Killyleagh in 1731. He married Mary CLELAND. Hamilton sailed out of Belfast in 1768 on the Lord Dungannon with his family and into Charleston, South Carolina.

I have looked around a bit on PRONI and can't find anything but then again, it's new to me so I am still figuring out how things work.  I know a lot of records have been lost but I feel like I should be able to find at least one thing from before Hamilton Murdoch left Ireland, even just taxes. I looked up both William's on a whim and nothing there, either. Shouldn't I be able to find William Jr.'s baptismal records since it's at the church? How do I go about doing that? And do any of these names sound familiar to anyone? Maybe they're shared ancestors??

The baptism records for 1st Killyleagh start in 1693, so it’s quite possible the 1700 baptism is recorded there. There’s a copy of those records in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast. They are not on-line. A personal visit is required to view them.

I am sure the families originated in Scotland. The names, denomination and general location all point to that. However I’d wonder whether the reported marriage in Paisley Cathedral relates to the right family. If they married in 1663/8 then it’s very unlikely the bride was still fertile in 1700. The average woman in those days stopped having children after about 20 - 25 years. William would have been born between 32 and 37 years after they had married. So I’d question whether it’s the right couple.

Also Paisley Cathedral (which is Roman Catholic) wasn’t built till the 1800s. Possibly it was Paisley Abbey, which is Church of Scotland (ie Presbyterian), where the marriage took place? It was there in the 1600s.

In response to JL Plunkett, my name is Emilie Murdock and my husband is John D. Murdock. We have traced his Murdogh ancestors back to Paisley, Scotland, and I beleive I may be able to  provide you with at least some of the specifics you are looking for concerning the Murdogh, Murdoch, Cleland, Hamilton, and even the Plunkett lines.  I am new to this forum and don't know exactly how to appropriately use it, but I have a lot of information from many years of research and I would be happy to share it with you either thru this forum or direct contact via email.  

My husband's great-great grandparents were John F. Murdock and Phoebe Plunkett and we have traced his ancestors back to William Murdogh and Janet Rowan, Paisley Abbey, Scotland, 1673. We were fortunate to have visited  Paisley Abbey in 2015.  I also have documentation for William Murdoch and Martha Hamilton (my husband's 5 X great-grandparents) from First Presbyterian Church in Killyleagh, County Down, Ireland, which we also visited in 2015. I have been trying for years to find a connection between our Martha Hamilton and the Killyleagh Castle, still owned by the Hamilton family.  Some of my documentation is  from PRONI but it's been years since I visited that site and I believe there may be more records available now. They have a wealth of information and,  though it can be a little daunting, they are very helpful in providing you with what you are looking for. It's well worth the time spent exploring what's there.  

I believe you must be a descendent of Phoebe Plunkett and I would very much like to hear from you and share what I have discovered about our amazing ancestors who emigrated from Scotland to Ireland to America.  And I would be interested to know more about the Plunketts. 

I hope I have used this forum correctly but please feel free, anyone, to correct me if I haven't. 

Emilie Murdock

My apologies for not responding immediately. I work in healthcare and it's a very trying time right now. It was my mistake on the Cathedral vs. Abbey. Sorry for any confusion. I find it oddly fascinating about the childbirth. I had no idea they stopped so young. Well, young to us, middle age to them probably. Thank you for your help, Elwyn. I love your name, btw! 

Emilie, first, thank you for the information!! I'm glad that I am not completely wrong. Yes, I am descended from those Plunkett's but there's a twist to that story. I actually have two distinctly different lines of Plunkett's on my paternal side and my father either didn't know or didn't think to mention it. The line of Plunkett's is not who give me my name. I had been looking for the family of my great-great grandfather John R. Plunkett. He doesn't show up anywhere on anything until he marries my great-great grandmother in 1881. I have a 1st cousin who has been at this for a few years and never found any family. I started looking at my paternal great-grandmother, who had been a Roden. As I went through some gravesites online, I discovered her great-great grandmother, Hannah Plunkett Crumly. So that's how I have "the other Plunkett's", as I call them. With your research experience I'm going to guess you have ventured as far into the Plunkett's as you can go and already know about the book entitled 10,000 Plunkett's written in 1969 by an elderly lady named Emma Plunkett Ivy from Georgia. She lays the entire line out and groups them by families. She even had a submission of one of my great uncle's and his family and while she put him in the book she couldn't put him in a family because she didn't know where he fit. That's because he doesn't. Wrong family. 

Charles Plunkett (unknown DOB) is my family line progenitor. He was married to Hanah Cleland. Their oldest son Robert and his wife Margaret Murdoch Plunkett (d/o of Hamilton and Mary) are my great grandparents x5. Robert's younger brother William, as you probably already know, is your husband's ancestor. And of course, William is Phobe's father. So my grandparent Robert and your husband's grandparent are uncle/niece. To go back further, William and Martha are my great grands x7. Also, John F. Murdoch is the son of James whose sister Margaret marries Robert Plunkett. Robert becomes his uncle by marriage. Margaret becomes Phobe's aunt by marriage. When John and Phobe marry there's no blood relation that I can tell. That's one of the few marriages where there's not.  

So, I probably haven't told you anything you don't already know. I just wanted to make sure I explained things and told you about the book. If you haven't purchased it and are interested I can tell you where I ordered my copy. It's out of print. I have gotten as far as I can with these Plunkett's. My focus is still on finding John R. Plunkett's family, if possible. It's his name I carry and I want to know more about him. He's always been a mystery. But I would love to know if there are relatives of our Murdocks and Hamilton's and Cleland's that came to America still residing in Northern Ireland. Or Scotland. I may be in the wrong country entirely. :)  That's why I hoped maybe a relative would see my message and respond and I did! Even if you don't live in Ireland I found a relative. Don't make me figure out what number cousins your husband and I are. It's just too much. Hannah and Phobe were 1st cousins and that's all that matters. Ha! 

Jamie Plunkett

Hello Jamie.  No apologies needed.  Your response was actually very timely compared to most. And considering you work in healthcare, you are to be commended. Thank you! 

If I may ask, where do you live?  My husband and I  live in Rockwall, Texas and  we retired here a year ago from Florida to be with our family. Although I am the chief researcher and spokesperson for all things genealogical, my whole family is interested and involved in our Murdock heritage.  After 25+ years of research I have a ton of  documentation.  I will be happy to help you in your research but I am a little limited right now as my files, although very organized, are mostly in storage. If need be, I can go there and "dig up" what I need!

So, I am first going to work on the Plunkett name you gave me.  And, yes, I have heard of the 10,000 Plunkett book.  I think I looked for it years ago but either didn't find it or lost interest.  So, can I still get it and where?  Also, you mention your great-great grandmother who married John R. Plunkett in 1881.  What was her name?  Yesterday I took a quick look back at Phoebe Plunkett married to our John F. Murdock (my husband's  2 X great grandparents) and it looked like there were numerous inter-marriages between the Plunketts/Clelands/and Murdochs. This was a common practice but it  makes genealogy research extremely complicated.  I will try to unravel the relationships and let you know what I come up with.  But, yes, you and my husband, Doug, are for sure "some kind of cousins" and that's good enough for me too.  

I too have wondered if there were any of our ancestors left behind in both Ireland and Scotland and are there any remaining today?  Maybe this forum will turn some up for both of us.  I would caution you that some of the information that's out there, especially thru Family Search, can be inaccurate.  I started out with Family Search (Mormons) many years ago when they were the first to offer their service free, and very much appreciate their work. Then Ancestry.com came into being and, although you have to pay for their service, they have always tended to be more dependably accurate. Either way, I never take anything as gospel unless I can document it myself.  

So happy to have found a new cousin and this wonderful forum.  Who knows what we will discover?

Slainte,

Emilie Murdock

Emilie, I live in Huntsville, AL. I'm from AL orginially but not Huntsville. I moved here in 2007 and said I would move away when my youngest child graduates high school. Well, she's a senior this year so I have a dart and map on the ready. :D  My great-great grandmother's name was Artie Nessie Crow. She and John were only 20 when they married.  Speaking of towns, I used to live in a small town just outside of Huntsville. There is at least one family of Cleland's I know for a fact and I'm sure there have to be more. It's also full of Plunkett's, all of them descendents of the same ancestors as me and your husband. I always suspected I was related to all of them when I moved there but I didn't know how because there was no link from my John Plunkett to any of them. I know one of the Cleland boys and I would love to know who his ancestors are. I may have to dig into it and see who left Sand Mountain and when. I'd also like to say how much I love the name Murdoch. It's been a favorite since the days of the A-Team with the character Howling Mad Murdock. Please don't feel you have to drag anything out of storage on my behalf! I know how that is. Once it's out it never goes back in, at least not the same way. 

Concerning the Plunkett book, I ordered mine through Amazon. It's a softcover and the only thing I found wrong were two pages that were out of order. Other than that it's perfect. After it arrived I found out the book company has a website to place orders directly from them. They specialize in out of print books and have been in business for over 50 years. They're called Higginson Book Company and they're located in Salem, MA. Their website is www.higginsonbooks.com. It's not the cheapest book I have bought but it's well worth it. As I have come across other Plunkett's in my search I have used the book as a reference guide, mostly with names or keeping a family line straight. It's been a huge help and kept me from going down rabbit holes. I believe you and your husband will really enjoy it, especially the stories. Mrs. Ivy is a pretty good story teller. She had a rather dry sense of humor but I like that. It's evident she's not a seasoned professional author but that's what makes it even more special. It's the telling of her family history as well as all of ours. I know I couldn't have done a better job. 

My email is jlfeemster@comcast.net if you would like to email outside of the forum. Feemster was my married name. It's Scottish. And ugly. :) 

Take care!! 

Jamie Plunkett 

Hello Cousins,

I am descended from Jane Murdoch, one of Hamilton Murdoch's daughters that came from Ireland to Charleston, SC.  Does anyone happen to know if there are birth records for Hamilton's children perhaps at the First Presbyterian Church in Killyleagh?  I'm working on a DAR application and more concrete information on Jane's birth would be welcome.

Happy New Year!

There are baptism records for some of the 1700s. According to the PRONI guide to church records, 1st Killyleagh Presbyterian has the following:

Baptisms, 1693-1757 and 1835-1881; marriages, 1692-1757, 1833-51 and 1854-72; minute books, 1725-32,and 1809-70; accounts, 1820-60; communion rolls, 1835-70.

They should include Hamilton’s own baptism but will only include his marriage and children’s baptisms if they were before 1758. The records are not on-line anywhere so far as I am aware, and a trip to PRONI is required to view them. If you are unable to go yourself, you could employ a researcher. Researchers in the PRONI area: http://sgni.net

(2nd Killyleagh’s records start in 1840). 

Elwyn, thank you!

I am new to Irish research and I'm just now figuring out what PRONI is so this is very helpful imformation.  I appreciate your input.

Ginger