Patrick and Esther Campbell and family

Randy,

I had a look in the tithe applotment records for 1825 which should list folk with land in Bangor then. I don’t see a Campbell family listed.

There are several trees on Ancestry with this family. One has Patrick & Esther dying in Ontario, both in 1857 (September & October). Another has them both dying in Bangor with the same dates. Trees on Ancestry often need to be taken with caution.

What denomination were they, do you know?

Hi Elwyn,  thanks for your response.  It was unknown until recently that Patrick and Esther had moved to Canada.  In fact, two of their children, Henry and Maria were both assumed to have died in Bangor as well.   We now know for sure these four are buried in Victoria Lawn Cemetery in St. Catharines, Ontario. There had been no records of them having moved to Canada until the gravestones were found, and the Cemetery confirmed they were buried there.  I have since found a Census record for Henry and Maria from1861.  The previous census in Canada was in 1851 and none of these Campbells are shown on it, so we are assuming the family moved to Canada sometime in the early to mid 1850's.  The Trees you have seen showing Patrick and Esther dying in Bangor have not been updated to reflect what is now known, probably because the people who are responsible for those trees are not aware.  The gravestones are shown on Billion Graves.  Patrick and Esther were my 3rd great grand parents, and I descend from their son James.  

I agree, Tree information needs to be taken with caution, I don't believe anything until I have seen records, and even then I like to have multiple records for confirmation.

The 1861 Census for my great great Grandfather James shows the Church of Scotland, in Census information after that it shows Presbytyrean.  I had a look at census information for his siblings and they show Presbytyrean.  I just had a look on line and discovered the Church of Scotland is Presbytyrean, so now I know!

I appreciate you having a look at this for me, it certainly isn't easy to find relatives from so far away!  I am retired but do hope to get to Ireland, possibly next year once travel is possible again.

Thanks, 

Randy

Randy,

Statutory birth, death and marriage registration (in some jurisdictions called Vital Records) only started in Ireland in 1864, save for non RC marriages which were recorded from 1845 onwards. So you probably won’t find statutory birth, death or marriage certificates in Ireland for this family. For earlier years you usually need to rely on church records, where they exist. Not all churches have records for that period and not all are on-line. 

As you say, Church of Scotland & Presbyterian is the same thing.  You do occasionally come across Church of Scotland, in Irish censuses, but mainly they used the term Presbyterian. (With a Presbyterian living in Co Down and a Scottish name like Campbell, you can probably safely assume the family came over from Scotland in the 1600s).

For Presbyterians the churches usually hold the originals but there are also copies in PRONI, the public record office, in Belfast. A personal visit is required to access them. Access to the records there is free. This link explains what records exist, parish by parish:

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/proni-guide-church-records

If you are unable to go yourself, you could employ a researcher. Researchers in the PRONI area: http://sgni.net

There are 6 Presbyterian churches in Bangor but none has any records before 1829, so you may struggle to get back very far. However you may find the baptisms of the children born post 1829.  If you find any baptisms you may get the family townland and if so I can have another look to see if I can find anything more. If Patrick had 27 acres of land in the 1820s or 1830s he ought to be in the tithe applotment records (which were compiled for land taxation purposes).  These are the only 3 I can find anywhere in Co Down, in the parishes of Inch, Annaclone & Tullylish. If you don’t find the family in any Bangor records it might be worth searching the Presbyterian records for those 3 parishes.

Campbell, Pat.-Townland: Ballyrenan Year: 1825-Inch-Down

Campbell, Patrick-Townland : Ballysheal Year: 1833-Annaclone-Down

Campbell, Patrick-Townland: Clare Year: 1834-Tullylish-Down

Your Patrick making linen would be fairly standard. Most farmers in Ulster grew  a bit of flax and then got their labourers to weave it into linen on hand loom weaving machines like the ones still used in the Outer Hebrides to make Harris Tweed. (Most Irish linen was made in Ulster). By the mid 1800s water powered factories were springing up in Belfast and other towns in Ulster which made it faster and often to a better standard. This gradually made the home weaving industry uneconomic.

The land around Bangor is good quality and a farmer with 27 acres there should have had a fairly comfortable life. 

Elwyn,

Thanks for this additional information, it gives me an idea of what direction I need to go now with this.  I had a great uncle who is no longer alive who went to both Scotland and Ireland looking for family records, and we know he found some in Bangor, but what he found I don't know.  I am going to try to locate his living relatives and hope that one of them still has his research.  Supposedly he didn't find anything in Scotland because records there were lost in a fire, but I don't even have any idea of when my Campbell relatives actually left Scotland for Ireland, or where in Scotland they originated from, so I really don't know what he had found or what he knew.

Thanks again for your help.

Randy

Co Down was heavily settled by Scots in the 1600s. During that century some 200,000 came over, and many settled in Down. By the 1700s they were leaving again. Statistically your ancestors likely arrived then.  There are no records in Ireland or Scotland that tell you where they came from. The records never existed, rather than they were lost in a fire. But we know lots in Down came from Ayrshire, Dumfries & Galloway and so on.

Campbell a common surname all over Scotland as you probably know. No easy way of finding where they came from.  The settlement policy was to exclude Highlanders (as they weren’t seen as having reliable political attitudes) and so the majority came from the more southern parts of Scotland.

I guess that's why we have never been able to get further back with the Campbell name then we are.  DNA matches might help, but I know that is also very challenging (if not impossible) when trying to find a common ancestor.  

Thanks for the additional info, it is all very interesting.

Randy

Hello Randy,

My name is Lorreanne White. My great grandfather John Alexander Campbell was a son of James and Ellen (Mitchell). Patrick and Esther came to Canada in 1855 from Bangor. They belonged to 1st Bangor (Presbyterian). I have a paper signed by the Rev Hugh Woods more or less saying they were good upstanding citizens and there should be no hurdles to them immigrating to Canada. My cousin Robyn went to 1st Bangor a few years ago but unfortunately the records were put  away as they were renovating the church. She did actually get to sit in the family "pew." We are going to contact 1st Bangor again and will try to get more information about them. I do know they were Ulster Scots. Anyway hope this helps! 

The following records relating to Bangor 1st Presbyterian church can be viewed in PRONI in Belfast (free).  Take photo id on your first visit to get a reader’s ticket. Takes 2 minutes.

1st Bangor

Baptisms, 1852-88 and 1895-1923; marriages, 1808- 1932; index to marriages,  1808-45; title deeds and leases, 1696-1868.

Lorreanne,

Thanks so much for responding to my message and providing the information that you did, it is very helpful.  Amazingly enough, I was contacted by another cousin yesterday, Lisa Campbell, who I have been in contact with in the past, and she had just received this same paper from her dad and sent me a copy of it.  I am retired and hope to get to Ireland some day, and will certainly plan on visiting the church now that I know about it.  Are you on Ancestry or My Heritage?  I have accounts on both sites but wasn't able to find you.

Randy

I've been in touch with her father too. And yes I'm on ancestry.com Lorreanne White
My cousin Robyn Moore and I were hoping to go this summer (she's been numerous times) but we're waiting to see how things in Europe play out ...

Yes, it's hard to know what might happen in Europe, pretty scary for sure.  I have never been to Poland but I have relatives there on my mom's side. I made contact through My Heritage with a cousin there a few years ago.  Hoopefully things will settle down and you and Robyn will be able to get to Ireland this summer.  If you do go please let me know, I'd be interested in hearing about your trip.

Randy

Hello Randy and Lorreanne123. I am the great great grandson of James and Ellen Campbell down through George, then Frank, then Robert. I too have been in touch with Lisa Campbell along the way. I am Michael if you wish to contact me as I have a fair amount of info although you may already have it.