Kilcoyne

Hello again Leighton!

I was not able to find a marriage record (church or civil) for James and Catherine. I was able to find some civil birth records for children. I was able to find Oney in 1871. I did not find Margaret but I did find a Catherine. Also two James records 1881 and 1884. Very likely the 1881 died in infancy but I did not find a death record. All of the birth records show Cloonahill or Cloonaughill which I believe is actually Cloonlaughil townland in Achonry civil parish. The RC church/parish is Curry and records start in 1867 which may explain not finding a marriage record.

first record Oney 1871   https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

first record Catherine 1875  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

fourth record James 1881  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

first record James 1884  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

The 1858 Griffiths Valuation head of household listing for Achonry civil parish shows a James Kilcoyne in Cloonlaughil townland. I assume this is the James Kilcoyne in your note but it could be his father.

https://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/sligo/achonry.htm

Here is the 1901 census which shows two different clues. There was a Margaret born in 1882 and also Catherine was born in Co. Mayo. I also searched for a Mayo marriage record with no success.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Sligo/Achonry_West/Clo…

The 1911 census shows James and Catherine living with their son Patrick who would have been born around 1867. Catherine indicates she had nine children but only five living in 1911.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Sligo/Achonry_West/Clo…

James died soon after the 1911 census was taken. See ninth record 

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Catherine died in 1915 See ninth record   https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Let me know what questions you have.

Roger McDonnell

Leighton:

I locate two more civil birth records.

Roger

See last record Maria 1866  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…;

See third record Patrick 1868  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

Roger my man you are the best :) So I had found something about Oney having older siblings. One being Patrick b in 1868 and before him Mary born in 1866. I guess she was actually Maria. Tell me when you search whatever database you have are you able to look at those pages in order? The birth record for Oney has her at the top of the page. Somebody told me she was a twin and I'm curious if maybe there's a record at the bottom of the previous page that could confirm. I know that Margaret or I guess Maggie came to the US and married here. She died in 1907 and is actually buried in the plot with Nora's husband John. The census you showed me lists the daughter Catherine as 20 years old but if we have a birth record of being born in 75 than she should have been 25/26 in 1901. Could Catherine be the same as James in that regard having an older sibling with the same name that died in infancy? Or maybe the 0 is actually a 5 and just hastily written. If that's the case that brings us to 8 kids with 9 having been listed so that twin could still be possibility. As always thank you Roger and I appreciate your help.
-Andrew Leighton Green

Oh also Margaret's obituary lists her parents living in Charleston Co Mayo

Leighton:

FYI Charlestown is 2.3 miles from Cloonalaughil. Sometimes immigrants listed their nearest town/village rather than the townland so in this case Nora's family showed Charlestown.

I looked for Catherine Kilcoyne birth records and there were three-- 1872 1875 and 1880. The other two were for different families. My guess is that Catherine didn't want her age to be exact and rounded down to 20.

All civil events were reported to the local Registrar who was usually a doctor in one of the larger villages. For the Kilcoynes the Registrar District was Aclare. The registrar districts reported to a Superintendent's Registrar District which is this case is Tubbercurry (Tobercurry). The Tubbercurry Superintendent's Registrar District only has two subordinate Registrars Districts (most had five or six). The two were Aclare and Coolaney. Registrations of births, marriages and deaths were forwarded periodically to the SRD and then on to Dublin.

I'm providing this info as background. If you look at the page for Oney, you will see her birth was registered in the Aclare RD. There were only three births registered in the month of June (see June 30th on the right). I don't think a twin to Oney is on another page. It would be on this page. It is certainly possible that the child died in the first hour and the family did not want to register the birth.

Roger

Oh I see. I wasn't sure how it worked so I thought maybe if there were multiple pages this could have just been the last page. Ok. I'll have to try and remember whoever told me that she was and get more info out of them. Thank you again for all your help.

Leighton:

I saw on another message that you are from Philadelphia. I grew up in North Philadelphia and went to La Salle College but have lived in Maryland for many years.

Roger

I think I found a marriage record for James and Catherine from Low Park Co Mayo in 1865 but I'm not positive. If it is them her father's name was Owen Kilroy. And yes I'm from the Northeast. Live in upper bucks county now. I had a scholarship for LaSalle high school but wanted to go to public school so we didn't do it. I have friends that went there though for high school and college. My grandparents are both from Germantown. Nora and John owned a grocery store at 2601 Roberts Ave which is on the corner with Whissahickon. My grandmother (their granddaughter) grew up at 244 Manheim.

Leighton:

Great find! The www.irishgenealogy.ie site is not flexible. If you search for Kilcoyne, it will not present any records spelled Kilcoin.

Note the RC chapel was called Kilbeha which is a misspelling of Kilbeagh (which is the old name for the civil parish). That church is the currect parish of St. James Charlestown. Ironically, the church in Carracastle five miles down the road is also called St. James.

Roger

Do you think that was them then? I was hesitant to accept it as fact because I don't know the area well enough to make educated guesses. Also I for whatever reason have the worst luck with that website. Most of the time when I search it says no results found even though I know the records exist as I've seen the links and it's worked a handful of times. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I guess I should probably start searching for Owen Kilroy in Co Mayo then

Hello Leighton:

To add to the information and many records that Roger so kindly provided, I found transcriptions and copies about the Kilcoyne and Kilroy families that you may be interested in.

I knew from previous searches into the Kilcoyne surname that there could be several variant spellings which in the past had thrown me off the track in locating the Kilcoyne name in church baptism and marriage records as well as civil registration birth and marriage records. Knowing of Kilcoyne name variations, coupled with the 1901 census provided by Roger showing that Catherine Kilcoyne was born in County Mayo, allowed me to locate the church, as well as the civil marriage records for James Kilcoyne and Catherine Kilroy.

I’m not related to the Kilcoyne or Kilroy families.

I initially found the church marriage transcription for James and Catherine at the Find My Past (FMP) website. This transcription shows that Jacobus “Kilcain” and Catherina Kilroy were married in the Kilbeagh Catholic Parish, County Mayo, on 28 February 1865. The alternate name for this parish, according to FMP, is “Charlestown.”

Because James and Catherine’s first names were recorded as “Jacobus” and “Catherina,” I knew that the priest who had married them had recorded the marriage in the Latin form.

The FMP transcription of the marriage can be found at: https://is.gd/tZ6Z5M

Attached to the transcription is a link that will take you to a copy of the original Kilbeagh Catholic Parish marriage record held by the National Library of Ireland in Kildare Street, Dublin City.

A copy of the original Kilbeagh marriage register can be accessed at: https://is.gd/1IdQXu

Once the link open you’ll see two facing pages of the marriage register. You can enlarge the register pages by means of round icons in the upper center/ right of the screen. The icons are white with green backgrounds. You can also access the full-screen function by clicking on the last icon on the right with the two arrows pointing northeast and southwest.

The marriage for Jacobus and Catherina is on the left hand page. Scroll down the page until you come to the first number 28 in the left margin. This is where the marriage is recorded, and shows that the witness to the marriage were Thomas Harkin and Maria Harkin.

Based on the date of the church marriage I found the civil registration marriage for James “Kilkoin” and Catherine Kilroy at the irishgenealogy.ie website. The marriage date is the same as found in the church record, February 28, 1865. James and Catherine were married in the Roman Catholic Chapel of Kilbeagh by a clergyman whose name appears to be Paul Henry, C.C. The initials C.C. stand for Catholic Curate.

At the time of marriage James was a 26 year old bachelor. Mary was a 19 year old spinster. James’s residence at the time of marriage was “Cloonafil,” which I believe would actually be the townland of Cloonlaughil, where the Kilroy family is living in the 1901 census. James’s occupation was farmer. His father is James “Kilkoin,” also a farmer.

No occupation is recorded for Catherine. Her address at the time of marriage was Kilgariff. Her father is Owen Kilroy, a farmer.

The witnesses to the marriage have different last names than the witnesses in the Kilbeagh church marriage. The witnesses in the civil marriage are recorded as Thomas Durcan and Mary Haran, whereas in the church marriage they are Thomas Harkin and Mary Harkin.

The marriage was recorded in the Swineford (County Mayo) Registration District by the registrar, Philip C. Philips on 3 April 1865.

You can access the civil marriage record at the following link: https://is.gd/gbpUTb

The marriage is the first one in the register. Because marriage traditional took place in the bride’s parish, the Kilbeagh Catholic Parish in County Mayo would have been Catherine’s home parish.

You can see the location of the Kilbeagh/Charlestown, County Mayo Catholic Church on a Google Map, showing the name of the church is St. James, located off Chapel Street, near the Mullaghanoe River: https://is.gd/anL6Hl

You’ll notice the church is just south of the border with County Sligo.

According to the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland website, construction of the, “Saint James's Catholic Church, Chapel Street, LOWPARK, Charlestown once Newtown-Dillon, MAYO,” was started in the year 1855 and consecrated in 1858, seven year before James and Catherine were married there. For more details and a slide show of the exterior and interior of the church, go to the Buildings of Ireland link at: https://is.gd/dRB0Xt

In one of your replies to Roger you had mentioned that you may have found the marriage of James and Catherine in Lowpark. The church would have been in the Lowpark section of Charlestown, according to the Buildings of Ireland website.

A very nice black and white Ordnance Survey Map of Charlestown, attached to this reply, shows the location of “St. James R.C. Chapel.” This map, compiled between 1888 and 1913, was found at the GeoHive website.

For a Google Street View of St. James Church and Chapel Street, go to: https://is.gd/FilQ0I

For a Google Satellite View of the church and the cemetery behind the church under partial cloud cover, see: https://is.gd/YUawHk

The following will bring you to a Google Street View of St. James Cemetery behind the church: https://is.gd/YazEI3

The next link will bring you to the Find A Grave site for the Saint James R.C. Church Cemetery: https://is.gd/WEGGtN

There are several Kilcoynes buried in the St. James Cemetery, according to the submissions at the Find A Grave link: https://is.gd/8h6pyH

Kilroys are also buried in the cemetery: https://is.gd/khlsBt

None of the Kilcoyne or Kilroy burials however, are from the 19th century.

KILGARRIFF

One of the challenges that many family historians looking for their Irish ancestors face, is locating the town, or towns where the ancestors came from. Such could be the circumstance with Catherine Kilroy, as there are at least three townlands under the name of Kilgariff in County Mayo. Two of these, Kilgarriff and Kilgarriff West, were situated in the Civil Parish of Kilbeagh. The Catholic Parish also goes by the same name of Kilbeagh with Charlestown as the alternate parish name.

The third Kilgarriff in Mayo was located in the Civil Parish of Aghamore. See the IreAtlas at: https://is.gd/ICcYwh

When the civil parish was still a part of Irish land divisions, Kilgarriff and Kilgarriff West were in the Civil Parish of Kilbeagh, just east of St. James Catholic Church in Charlestown. The Kilgarriff in the Civil Parish of Aghamore, was located several miles south of St. Patrick’s Church. You can see the locations of all three townlands on a Google Map at: https://is.gd/EIBRXU

Then too, just to make things a little more interesting, you’ll notice on the map that Kilgariff West is actually east of Kilgariff.

The civil registration marriage record for James and Catherine shows she was from Kilgariff. However, but it’s also possible she was from Kilgarriff West.

I didn’t find Catherine’s father, Owen Kilroy in an Irish property tax record known as Griffiths Valuation. Roger had mentioned Griffiths Valuation in his reply, showing that James Kilcoyne had leased property in Cloonklaughil.

The valuation for the Kilbeagh Civil Parish was completed by the year 1856.

I looked for Owen Kilroy not only in Kilgarriff and Kilgarriff West, but other townlands and parishes in Mayo, but didn’t find him. Only those who paid to lease property were recorded in Griffiths Valuation. Owen and his family may have lived in a lease paid by another person.

While I didn’t find Own Kilroy, Griffiths Valuation shows a John Kilroy leasing land and a house in Kilgarriff West, Civil Parish of Kilbeagh. John may have been related to Catherine. Griffiths Valuation is attached to this reply. The entry for John Kilroy is Number 26 toward the bottom of the valuation.

This may be the same John Kilroy as the 78 year old John Kilroy in the 1911 census. He, his 50 year old son Michael, and Michael’s wife, Bridget, along with a 13 year old relative named Michael Shiel were the “Residents of a house 8 in Kilgarriff, West (Sonnagh, Mayo).” See the census transcription from the National Archives of Ireland link at: https://is.gd/1mxluh

Once the census appears, make sure to click on “Show all information” to view the full census page.

CLOONLAUGHIL

The February 28, 1865 marriage for James “Kilkoin” and Catherine Kilroy, shows that James’s residence at the time of marriage was “Cloonafil,” which would be a reference to Cloonlaughil. The following Google Map shows that Cloonlaughil, in County Sligo, is just north of the St. James Catholic Church in Charlestown, Mayo. The map also includes Kilgarrif and Kilgarriff West, east of the church, and also the townland of Kilgarriff south of the church: https://is.gd/mB1m4j

See Google Street Views of Clonnlaughil at: https://is.gd/i4G8uz and https://is.gd/GWpVkc

The marriage record for James Kilkoin shows he was 29 years old, placing his year of birth circa 1839. The marriage record shows that his father was also James.

I looked for James’s baptism transcription at the FMP website for counties Mayo and Sligo, but did not find it.

I also looked for Catherine Kilroy’s baptism. When she married in 1865 she was 19 years old, placing her year of birth circa 1846. The marriage record shows her father was Owen Kilroy. I didn’t find the baptism record for Catherine either in County Mayo or County Sligo.

There will not be civil registration births records for James or Catherine, as civil registration of births in Ireland didn’t begin until the year 1864. Civil registration of deaths also began in 1864. Marriages however, were first recorded by the government in 1845, but only for civil marriages and protestant marriages. Catholic marriages were not recorded at this time. Marriages for all religious denomination, like births and death, were recorded beginning in 1864.

With Kind Regards,

Dave Boylan

SOURCES:

Find My Past
National Library of Ireland
irishgenealogy.ie
Google Maps
National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland
GeoHive Ordnance Survey Map
Google Street Views
Google Satellite View
Find A Grave
IreAtlas
Ask About Ireland: Griffiths Valuation
1911 Census, National Archives of Ireland

Dave:

Thanks once again for all your work assisting Leighton. FYI My McDonnells come from five miles east down the N5 road in the village of Carracastle. The N5 now bypasses Ballaghaderreen, Carracastle and Charlestown.

Leighton:

I understand your frustrations with irishgenealogy.ie  it just takes time to figure out how to use the site. Finding the registration district is the first step but with marriages you have to consider that the bride may have been from another parish (and registration district) so it gets tricky. Another tip which I did not follow is to search on the names of both parties to the marriage. I searched on James Kilcoyne and did not get the record but if I had searched on Catherine Kilroy the record should have come up. All the best!

Roger

Dave thank you so much for that information. You all have been so helpful and I can't thank you enough. I suppose without baptism records and being born before civil birth records were started I may soon be running cold in tracing much further back. Roger yeah I'll figure it out eventually it's just frustrating. Especially since this shouldn't be as difficult as it is for me since I'm only 34 and have been using computers and websites most of my life. Thank you again for all your help.

You're welcome Roger and Leighton.

Dave