John Stoney (c.1806 unknown to 1882 Roscrea)

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Hi,

A search of  subscription sites - www.rootsireland and www.findmypast.ie did not show any birth record for a John Stoney.

Roost web has a record of a number of families with the father recorded as - James J. and George in Birr and Thomas in Newport., Co. Tipperary.

There is a record of a Catharine baptised in Birr May 20th 1798. Father: James J. Stoney and Mother: Catharine. Birr records appear to be Church of Ireland (Anglican);

There is a baptism in Newport in March 1802 of a Patrick Stoney: Father: Thomas Stoney and Mother: Catherine Garter or Carter.

The marriage of John Stoney to Anne Scully in Dunkerrin, Co. Offaly was a Roman Catholic ceremony. Witnesses: Edward Ryan and Andrew Ryan.

Regards,

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Further to previous post, www.rootsireland.ie has a record of the baptism of Elizabeth Stoney in Dunkerrin on March 15th 1829. Parents: John Stoney and Anne Scully. Address: Castletown. Sponsors: John Tobin and Catherine Glaccan.

Other baptism with the same parents' names: Judith 1837 - Address: Loughane; Patrick: 1839, same, James: 1841, Address: Butcherstown?, John: 1844, Loughane; William: 1848, Loughane. The addresses are vague. 

Baptismal sponsors for Judith were: Patrick Burns and Mary Quinlan, for Patrick: William Hannan and Jane Bermingham.

Based on naming of children, it is likely that that  Elizabeth was called after her fathers' mother.  See Griffith's valuation attached for Eliza Stoney, Emmel. 

See landedestatesdatabase@nuigalway - Stoney - Tipperary - Emmel Castle

Regards,

Thank you - I had all the kids and Patt (Patrick) Stoney (1839) is my known ancestor.

The "Emmel" lead is very useful and I will look into this over weekend.

Again my thanks - being both Irish and RC records they tend to cause me some problems for "long distance" genealogy.

Regards

Leigh

p.s. I had thought the "Emmel" Stoney's a different family as couldn't find John but will attack with new eyes.

Hi,
Some time ago I was asked to help a guy who lived in, what once was a castle now a house. All they had was Augustus  Robinson  in the middle of the name was AD 1835 over the courtyard arch.
To cut a long story short one of this Augustus Robinsons ancestors Sarah Robinson (from Knockshigowna) married into the Stoney family, to a Thomas Stoney (b 1677)  originated from Yorshire, England. 
They had a son George Stoney b 1713 and he married Elizabeth Johnston of Emmel Castle.
The rest of my information was the Robinson family, they were Berwick on Tweeed, England (they came to Ireland around 1700)
AD............ we thought was the After Death 1835, Alphonse DeLapere were his middle name. It was the year he extended the Castle into a house and married soon after.

On the link for the marriages that McCoy sent you on the right hand page is a marriage of Thomas Stoney to a Ruth Falkiner.
She was from Mount Falcon in Borrisokane, I used to go to that house when I was a about 9 with my Gran, she lived about a 10 min walk from the house.
This maybe connected to your Stoney's or not.
Margot

Have had a look at "Emmel" Stoneys and still believe them to be different family. These Stoney's are all "gentry" and in Burkes which does not fit with my ancestor John Stoney who is tenant farmer/ farm labourer ............. also all this family are RC and the Burke's families are not.

Ok,
Possibly this one.  The only Stoney in Moneygall. He is a Tenant Farmer.I canot see who was the Landlord.
004587428/004587428_00100.pdf (nationalarchives.ie)

You mentioned...............
 According to Griffith's he appears to have lived in Boherboy, Saggart through 1830/40s before moving (back?) to Tipperary in 1852 
Can you upload what you have seen please.
The only one I can see after 1852 in in Dorrha.

Margot

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Hi Margot

Attached all as JPEGS - hope they help

Leigh

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Missed one, sorry.

John was still in Saggart in 1853

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I also have the attached for Walsh Park (Dorrha?) in 1953 - perhaps he was in process of moving.

Or even 1853 !!!

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Dunkerrin R.C. records have a Patrick Stoney baptised there on June 17th 1820. Father: Hugh Stoney anf Mother: Elizabeth Magee.

Baptismal sponsors: Daniel Magee and Jane Meagher. Address: Briccane, which maybe Brickanagh in Griffith's records.

The Emmel Stoney's named some children "Johnstone Stoney".

A Ralph Stoney was Rector of Terryglass. Do you have any family records which would put "John Stoney" of Moneygal in County Kildare, unless he was in the military.

Attached is a record of the Will of George Stoney of Elm Hill in 1872, plus Codicil. Interesting reading.

Regards,

Hugh Stoney and family (like so many others) decamped to USA and appear in Iowa. I am looking for Hugh's ancestors. 

John is definitely not a redorded part of the gentry at Emmel Castle, Arran hill, Greyfort, Oakley Park and other known "seats" of the well known Stoneys.

I have looked at Rev. Ralph Stoney and do not believe he is involved.

Margot.

Do you have some approx dates for Edward Stoney in Moneygall?

I have a possible brother to John as an Edward Stoney married to Margaret Meagher 12 Feb 1832 in Moneygall

Thanks

Hi,
Sorry, no other info on Edward Stoney.  The records don't go back that far.

The Griffiths Valuation in 1853 for John Stoney...........
Where you see his name...
The first colum states - next says a then his name then the next two colums say - - -  and - - -  then the the landlords value.
That means he was the last tennant.......... it is now   a    for abandoned 
He was not in Saggart at that time, just was the last tennant.

I would say looking at the marriage records and all the other records that Edward Stoney and John Stoney are brothers.
Records before then are like the Wills and court records, I have searched and cannot match any to a possible father for John and Edward.

The John Stoney who died in 1882, his son Thomas was present at the death.
I looked for his birth, his Mother was AnneManly.
The marriage of John Stoney to Anne Manly says his father was Thomas and he was from Clash.  The marriage was in Toomevarra. June 28th 1864.

Margot

Many thanks Margot.

The Griffiths info is particularly useful as it means he left Saggart in 1852 to go to Walsh Park where he was resident 1853. I would never have picked that up.

Re 1882 death, John & Anne Scully had a son Thomas (Christened 5 Jun 1834 at Moneygall) so I'll keep that for now.

Another John Stoney and Anne Manly had 3 children - Thomas (Chr 13 Jul 1864), Mary (20 Dec 1868) and John (b. 8 Aug 1869) - all born/ christened Moneygall. I am not sure where this John Stoney fits in the tree as he would be born c.1839 (?) and doesn't match with anyone I have found at present.

Thanks again for your help. Lots of little steps .........I have now pushed my Stoney ancestors back 2 generations so happy. Unless, of course, you have a break through ;-)

Leigh

 

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The attached may be of some assistance in relation to the various "Stoney" families in the Monegal area.

The 1821 census, which apparently is house No. 17, does not clarify how Mrs Armstrong and the children relate..

It would appear that the "John Stoney" who stated that he was born in Moneygal in 1836 was employed in the British Services and would appear to be seeking a pension?

p>Regards,

 

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Attached record gives some detail on the famlies with the surname "Stoney" in Counties Tipperary and Offaly from 1688.

There is no record of families of the same surname who settled in the same area, as to how they connected.

Regards,

I've come across this thread but can't work out what parish it's attached to. I'm a descendant of the "gentry" Stoneys and have been working on the family. I don't understand why you think that John Stoney of Boherboy, Saggart (there in 1847-1853), is the same person as John Stoney of Walshpark, Dorrha (there in 1853), and the same person as John Stoney who married Anne Scully in Dunkerrin in 1828 and had children baptised there in 1829 to 1851. The latter two Johns could be the same, but not all three. I don't know how you can say that John Stoney was in Boherboy in the 1830s when Griffith's Valuation wasn't set up till 1847.

The marriage licences, Emmel, Ralph Stoney, and George Stoney of Kyle Park (not Elm Hill) are all belonging to the gentry family.

The "a" opposite John's name in the Boherboy record does not mean "abandoned", it means that the house is marked "a" on the map.

The Edward Stoney in the pension application is a son of George Stoney, a "natural" son of Thomas Stoney of the gentry family, I have been informed by a descendant who also found it.

Whether all the Stoneys are related I don't know. George Stoney who migrated from Yorkshire about 1693 had 5 sons who appear to have survived infancy: we have a family tree for Thomas (files above); John appears to have remained in Yorkshire or returned there; James had one son that I know of and he had one son that I know of (unlikely that there was an only child in two successive generations); George and Robert I know nothing about. The Stoneys in Tipperary and Offaly do not seem so numerous that it would be impossible for them all to be descended from the original George.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi John

There has been a lot of "extraneous" information posted on this thread, so I'll get back to basics.

Firsty, as indicated this Stoney family is NOT gentry but all farm labourers or similar ............. so unlikely you'd have come across them.

My GG grandfather was Patrick Joseph Stoney, who was christened 1863 in Saggart..His father was Patt Stoney christened 1839 in Moneygall to John Stoney and Anne Scully (RC marriage 1828 Moneygall), with all their children christened in Moneygall. Ann Scully Bolton died 1852 at Birr Moneygall.. - KNOWN

I originally sought help re John Stoney (1806 unknown - 1882 Roscrea) - KNOWN. He disappears from Boherboy after his wife dies in 1852 ............. and dies in Roscrea Tipperary.

Type error on my original request as should have said he lived in Boherboy, Saggart "40/50s" not "30/40s" ............. Griffiths don't appear until 1848/49/51 for him living there. The Walsh Park was me searching for him in Tipperary and could well have no relevance.

The question was "where did John Stoney come from?" It seems likely that he originated from Tipperary (which was Stoney "central") and as died in Roscrea, but I have no evidence and I was seeking help on this.

Hope that clears it up.

Leigh

 

Thanks, Leigh, for clarifying. I have looked at the baptism record for Patrick Joseph in Saggart and there is, unusually, an address which findmypast.ie interprets as Kingmod, but as a Dubliner I suspect it might be Kingswood. There are two Kingswoods, see https://www.townlands.ie/search/?q=kingswood , but the one in Clondalkin Civil Parish is almost as close to Saggart village as Clondalkin village and only just outside the Saggart parish boundary, see http://www.dublinhistoricmaps.ie/boundaries/religious-parishes/index.ht… and tick 1839. It is conceivable that if John Stoney of Moneygall had migrated to Boherboy, he might have found a job for his son Patrick in Kingswood: it seems unlikely that he would have adult sons living with him in Boherboy.

It still seems unlikely to me that John Stoney and Anne Scully would have had children baptised in Dunkerrin in 1848 and 1851 and that John was living in Boherboy in 1847 to 1853, but perhaps you have this clear in your own mind.

Incidentally, the John Stoney who died in Roscrea district in 1882 died at Dunkerrin and had a son Thomas, see https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…;

John
 

Hi John - you're echoing my own thoughts/fears re John Stoney in Boherboy (or not!) but I have found no other records even vaguegly close to similar dates across Tipperary/ Laois & Dublin. I think John Stoney's activities from 1806 birth in Moneygall to 1882 death in Roscrea remain shrouded in mystery. You have in fact responded to my original request where I was hoping for best but fearing the worst.

What is known and confirmed is:

[GG Grandfather] Patrick Joseph Stoney – Born 1863 at Mont Pellier, Tallaght and RC Baptised 1863 at Saggart as shown in Catholic registers. His 3 Jul 1893 marriage record to Catherine Morton confirms his parents as Patt Stoney & Anne Scully. PJ Stoney & Catherine lived at Old Bawn, Tallaght – following PJ’s death, Catherine married Edward Mark Quinn the farmer on whose Old Bawn land PJ was labourer. Confirmed by my late Grandmother and later by Irish Quinn family “historian” ……….. who have it recorded that PJ came “down the mountain” to get married which I assume is reference to Montpellier Hill (Hellfire Club) on the slopes of which is a forestry plantation, known as Hell Fire Wood. Could PJ have been labouring in the forestry plantation? He died of dropsy 1897 in South Dublin Union Workshouse.

Patt Stoney - RC Baptised 12 May 1839 at Moneygall to John Stoney & Anne Scully (mistranscribed in some places as Anne Trully). Patt Stoney married Anne Oldbury as shown on PJ’s birth records. Confirmed ex National library of Ireland, Parish records and online sources.

John Stoney – Born c.1806 married Anne Scully 28 Nov 1828 at Moneygall. They had 10 children I have identified, including Thomas (1834) and Patt (1839) who was the youngest – all children RC Baptised at Moneygall. John is shown to have died in Roscrea (age 75/76) in Civil Registration Death Index.

 

Hi Leigh, If you’re satisfied that Patrick Joseph was born at Mountpelier, he could well have come down the mountain to be married. But he’s not likely to have been a forestry worker: Hellfire Wood is a modern plantation, and I remember going up the mountain as a child in the 1950s and it was pretty bare. This is also shown in the Ordnance Survey 1897/1913 map. Patt Stoney of Saggart could be the same man as Patrick Stoney baptised in Dunkerrin in 1839. There was an Elizabeth Stoney of Dublin buried in Dunkerrin in 1852, which suggests movement between Dunkerrin and somewhere in Dublin. Patrick does not seem to have been the youngest son: I have found Eliza (1829), Mary (1831), Thomas (1834: mother given as Nancy Kinelly), Judith (1837), Patrick (1839), James (1841), John (1844), William (1848), and another John (1851). I am still doubtful that John Stoney of Dunkerrin was the one who lived at Boherboy: I think it’s more likely that he stayed in Dunkerrin all his life. True, he is not in Griffith’s Valuation, which shows that he was not the main occupier of a house. But I do see in Griffith’s Valuation a William Scully in Dunkerrin: if this was Anne’s father John and his family could have lived with William. I know you’re really looking for John’s father and I’m sorry I can’t think of any other avenues to explore. John