Mary Donovan

Hello Tara.

There is a baptism transcription at the Find My Past (FMP) website for a Mary Donovan, daughter of John Donovan and Mary Downing. Mary was baptized in the Fermoy Catholic Church on 20 December 1846. The address of her parents at the time of the baptism was Princes Street. Princes Street would be in Fermoy at the time.

You can access the FMP baptism transcription for free at the following link. Once you click on the link you first may be asked to establish a free account with FMP before the baptism transcription appears: https://is.gd/Qz04vW

Attached to the transcription is another link that will take you to a copy of the original Fermoy Catholic Church baptism for Mary Donovan, held by the National Library of Ireland. Go to: https://is.gd/ALphJA

There are two facing pages of the Fermoy baptism register. Baptism information is found on both pages. You can enlarge the register pages by means of round icons in the upper center/ right of the screen. The icons are white with green backgrounds. You can also access the full-screen function by clicking on the last icon on the right with the two arrows pointing northeast and southwest.

Mary’s baptism is the 12th entry up from the bottom of the page. The street address of the family, Mary’s name, and the names of her parents are on the left page of the register. On the right page of the register are names of the godparents. I couldn’t tell however, if Anne McCarthy was the godmother, or if the two people recorded under her were the godparents. As you can see the baptisms in the register can be a challenge to read in spots because some baptisms are squeezed together and also because of the handwriting and fading.

Attached to this reply is an Ordnance Survey Map from the 1837 to 1842 time period showing the location of Princes Street in Fermoy. On the map, Princes Street is below the River Blackwater and just below King Street and the Post Office. The map is from the GeoHive website.

Placing a modern map of Fermoy from GeoHive over the old Ordnance Survey Map, shows that today, Princes Street is called Connolly St. and that King Street is McCurtain St. This map is also attached.

I also found the baptism records for other children of John and Mary Donovan in Fermoy and can send these to you if you confirm that the baptism of Mary Donovan in the FMP transcription and the Fermoy baptism register, is the Mary Donovan you are looking for.

All the Best,

Dave Boylan

SOURCES
Find My Past
National Library of Ireland
GeoHive Maps

Hi Dave,

Thank you so much I think this is the Mary Donovan that is my 2nd great grandmother, the age is right and the father is right. Does John and Mary Downing have a daughter Kate as a Kate Donovan was present at the birth of Mary's first child. The only other thing we know of John Donovan is he is listed as a gardener on Mary's marriage certificate with Patrick Sweeney as John Sweeney father listed as a labourer. John is listed as being born county Mayo but Mary is listed as being born on Lancashire census as being born County Cork. Their marriage was in Fermoy as previously said and their first child was born in Grange Fermoy. 

If you you let me see the other children's listing I will see if I can trace any of those back. 

I have enclosed pic of Mary Donovan with my grandmother on her knee taken circa 1915 in Haslingden. I have put this picture on ancestor pages on this site. 

Thank you so much for your help.

All the best Lynn 

Hello Lynn,

Unfortunately, I didn’t find the baptism record for a Kate or Catherine Donovan, daughter of John Donovan and Mary Downing in the Fermoy Catholic Parish. I also looked for the baptism of a Catherine/Kate Donovan in other County Cork Catholic parishes as well as other counites in Ireland, but still did not uncover a baptism record for a Catherine or Kate Donovan, daughter of John Donovan and Mary Downing/Downey/Downy, etc. The name Downey or Downy would be an alternate spelling for Downing. At this time in Irish history names were not standardized.

John and Mary also had a daughter named Mary baptized in the Fermoy Parish in 1845, but this child must have died as an infant, as the second child named Mary was baptized in 1846, as noted in the previous reply.

The FMP transcription for the first-born Mary Donovan can be accessed at: https://is.gd/1L3i4k

As you can see Mary was baptized on 31 August 1845. Her mother Mary’s maiden name is transcribed as “Downey,” rather than Downing.

A copy of Mary’s original Fermoy baptism record is the 5th entry up from the bottom of the baptism register at: https://is.gd/MIt2Lq

The left-hand page of baptism record shows her family’s residence was Prince’s Street.

The right-hand page of the baptism register shows that Mary’s godparents were Wm Smith and Honora Ryan.

The next child after the birth of the second child named Mary was Margaret Donovan. She was baptized in the Fermoy Parish on 17 March 1849. Her mother’s maiden name is transcribed as “Downy.” See the transcription at: https://is.gd/4VWw4i

By the year 1849, Fermoy baptisms were not spread across two pages. Margaret’s baptism is on the left-hand register page at: https://is.gd/399icN

To find Margaret’s baptism, scroll down the page until you come to the second baptism for 17 March. Three baptisms took place on that day. Margaret’s godparents are David Donovan and Margt Geary.

The last Fermoy baptism is for Johanna, who was baptized on 3 October 1852: https://is.gd/D8zEOv

Johanna’s baptism is the first entry at the top of the right-hand baptism register page at: https://is.gd/VZIlOB

No godfather is recorded. Johanna’s godmother is Johanna White. It’s possible that John and Mary named their daughter after Johanna White.

An Ordnance Survey Map from the 1837 to 1842 time period shows there is a Grange, as well as a Grange East and a Grange West. On the map you’ll see that a portion of the town of Fermoy is in the lower right corner, just east of the Union Workhouse. The map is attached to this reply.

After seeing these records, do you still think this is the Donovan and Downing family you are looking for?

Kind Regards,

Dave

Hi Dave I have printed out all the records you sent thank you so much I will keep looking I am trying to tie them together if I can find census docs or record with John Donovan with these children as a gardener the places and dates fit in with my ancestors just can't work out why a Kate Donovan would be listed as being present at the birth of Mary's first child Bridget, if she was not Mary Donovan's sister?, and to be present at the birth she must have lived to be old enough to be recorded on Fermoy registry. I will keep looking trying to find out if Dave Donovan is a brother or father to John Donovan since he is godparent. 

To be listed as a gardener in the mid 1800's would this be for a manor house or such or is could he be a person who grows vegetables like a market gardener?. 

Thank you once again for your help. 

Hi Lynn,

You're welcome.

I can only surmise that being listed as a gardener means John Donovan would have worked for another person, as you suggested, perhaps at a manor house. There is just no way to tell with complete certainty however, that this is the case, just from the information on the 1874 Fermoy marriage record for John Sweeney and Mary Donovan. But odds are he was working for someone given that a majority of Irish Catholic farmers did not own land at this time.

Concerning Kate Donovan, without her relationship recorded on Bridget's 1875 birth record, it is impossible to tell how she was related. If not Mary's sister, she could have been a cousin or an aunt. For example, Kate could have been the unmarried sister of Mary's father, John Donovan, or the wife of one of John Donovan's brothers.

The other thing to consider is that all the children of John Donovan and Mary Downing that I found were born during or just after the Great Irish Famine. Some historians place the famine years between 1845 and 1849, while other state the famine took place between 1845 and 1851. Johanna Donavan as you saw in the previous post was baptized in 1852.

There is the possibility that John and Mary had a daughter named Kate during the famine years, but that her baptism was not recorded (more on this below) or perhaps not found or transcribed by the Find My Past website in the Fermoy, Cork Catholic registers. The other possibility is that the baptism of a Kate Donovan was recorded, but that the baptism is unreadable because of fading or other damage.

In going through the Fermoy registrs, I found that baptisms for the months of April and September are missing for the year 1847. For the year 1848 the months of September, October, November and December are missing in the Fermoy baptism registers. That is a total of six month’s worth of missing Fermoy baptisms in just two years.

Fermoy Catholic marriage registers are available from 18 May 1828 to 20 February 1881. John Donovan and Mary Downing may have been married between 1840 and the birth and baptism of their first daughter named Mary in 1845.

An investigation into the Fermoy marriage registers for 1840 to 1845 shows that marriages in the months of April, June, and November of 1840 are missing. For the year 1841, marriages are missing for the months of March, April, and December. In 1842 marriages are missing for the months of March, April, and October. In the year 1844 marriages are missing for the month of March.

For the years 1840 to 1844, a total of 10 month’s worth of marriages are missing in the Fermoy registers.

Another avenue you can take in looking for Kate’s baptism, is to post another message to Ireland Reaching Out asking one of the volunteers if they can search the subscription RootsIreland site and see if they can locate a Fermoy, Cork Catholic baptism record for a Kate or Catherine Donovan, daughter of John Donovan and Mary Downing/Downey/Downy. You can explain the baptism may have taken place in Fermoy in the 1840s or 1850s, but that you are not sure of an exact year.

After receiving your latest reply I wanted to see if I could find more information about David Donovan. He was Margaret’s godfather at her 1849 baptism.

In turn, I located an FMP baptism transcription for a David Donovan in the Fermoy Catholic registers, showing his baptism took place on 22 November 1829. His parents are James Donovan and Joana Hickey. This David would have turned 20 in November of 1849, which means he would have been old enough to be a godfather.

David’s baptism transcription from FMP cam be found at: https://is.gd/Ekmhob

But, when I located a copy of David’s original baptism record, I found that his last name is spelled similar to Bowdoon, which may be an alternate spelling for Bowdern or Bowdren. This would not be David Donovan, and would be an error in the FMP transcription.

You can view a copy of the original baptism record for David at: https://is.gd/HLtXFg

His baptism is the 9th entry up from the bottom of the left-hand register page.

Irish genealogy can be exhilarating and exasperating, all at the same time. I’m sorry I couldn’t find more exhilarating news Lynn.

Thanks again for writing.

Dave

Hi Dave, 

Thank you again for all your hard work, yes genealogy can be both exhilarating and exasperating. 

I have found this link that lists John Donovan in Midleton area as a gardener in years I would expect him to be doing this, looking at the history it would be in the areas the British army had barracks so this is possibly where Mary Donovan met John Sweeney.

https://corkgen.org/corkancestors/Midleton.htm

John Sweeney's younger brother James also served in the British Army his first child Catherine Sweeney was born 3rd of August 1876 in the Youghal area, James was in the 33rd a foot regiment he married Minnie or Mary Meara or Mara in 1875. James was born in India in 1854.

I will keep looking and searching. 

Best regards Lynn 

Hi Lynn,

Catherine Sweeney's birth record that you attached shows she was born at 108 Old Youghal Road. This is in the northeast section of Cork City, north of the River Lee, as you can see on the Google Map at: https://is.gd/J8f93Q

The Google Street View at the following link shows the Old Youghal Road heading into Cork City: https://is.gd/Q9VTEG

The attached Ordnance Survey Map is from the 1888 to 1913 time period, and shows the location of the Victoria Barracks complex on the Old Youghal Road. On the map it is labeled as, “Youghal Old Road.” The Ordnance Survey Map is from the GeoHive website.

James Sweeney may have been stationed at the Victoria Barracks before he left for India, where he was stationed when Catherine was born on 3 August 1876.

Today, the Collins Barracks Military Museum is located where the Victoria Barracks was on the Old Youghal Road in Cork City: https://is.gd/ANGgZs

A Google Street View of the Military Museum can be seen at: https://is.gd/ixIcl6

Attached is another Ordance Survey Map from the 1837 to 1842 time period, showing the “Barracks,” on what would be the Old Youghal Road. The road on this map however, is not named, and the barracks was not yet called Victoria Barracks.

The barracks was later named Victoria, who became queen in 1837. The barracks was constructed between 1801 and 1806 according to a Wikipedia article at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collins_Barracks,_Cork

Also see: https://is.gd/xC0s3w

You can also read more about the barracks and view a slide presentation at the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland website links at:
https://is.gd/a6ADbr and https://is.gd/kPZWAO

All the best with your continued research Lynn.

Dave

Thank you for the interesting links and photos, I have included them in family history. 

Cheers Lynn 

You're welcome Lynn.

Dave