Michael Dempsey born circa 1821-1824

JM:

The subscription site Roots Ireland indicates they have Hacketstown records starting in 1823. My search for Michael Dempsey did not locate a record anywhere in Co. Carlow. The NLI parish register for Hacketstown shows records starting in late August 1820. https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0707  You may want to check the register for a baptismal record for Michael from 1820-1823.

Roger McDonnell

Hello Roger

Many thanks for your reply to my query. Thank you also for searching for Michael Dempsey on Roots Ireland on my behalf and sharing the results of that search.  It seems that Michael Dempsey and his father James are quite elusive to track down. I have had a quick look at the link you sent, which is brilliant, I had no idea that there was access to those parish records on-line. I suspect though that the Dempsey family were not Catholic.  Do you know of any sources of other denomination church records on-line?  I confess that my knowledge of Irish history is not up to much, I wish I knew more about the social history of the area at the time of Michael's birth.  His military record which I attached to the original post suggests that he was born before 31st December 1821, as he joined the army at the age of 14! Later records, census, marriage records etc given differing ages.

Thanks again for your help - much appreciated.

JM

JM:

If the Dempseys were Church of Ireland then records for Hacketstown in the 1820s are not available. They were destroyed in the 1922 Public Records Office fire.

Roger

Hi    JM   There are Dempseys in my wifes family genealogy from Wicklow, I dont think there is any connection at all.   saw yours and stopped .  I have never seen a full British Army paper before,  I would have assumed that it would have included his Parents or a contact  in case of whatever.  I saw what I believe was a mention of Michael in the Census of 1851 in Fulwood Barracks in Lancester.  Didnt see him in 61 when he seems to have been disharged.  He was still a young man , did he get married that you know of.  What country did he go to.  I ask because if he got Married  because there may be some info about his Father. He was young going into the army, did he follow his father.  If James is his father, you seem uncertain , then he would have died somewhere and the record might say more, maybe.   There are two James Dempseys in Griffiths Valuation in that area , finally why do you not believe that James record  is his Father, why would someone pass it down otherwise.    You dont have to answer any of this but you can ask yourself.   Its a nuesance about the records being burned, our own people seem to have done more harm to us than the British in this instance, but I might have done the same myself.  On the assumption that they were RC I looked in the record for 1821 and on the 14/12 same year there is a record of a Michael born to a James and Judy and although I first thought that it was Dempsey, I could not swear to it as it is blotchey.  Looked for further children with no luck  same with Marriages although they dont go back very far..   Anyway dont give up,   theres more than one way to skin a cat, not that I want to,,   Best Myles

Hello Myles - Thank you for your reply to my post. Michael married 24th Feb 1861 in Newcastle upon Tyne then moved to first Bakewell in Derbyshire and then to Chesterfield in Derbyshire.  I know that he was involved in the Indian Mutiny in 1857 and it was after this that he left the army, married and settled in England. He was just 14 when he joined the army.  I will attach the military record for James Dempsey which may be of interest to you.  Michael's marriage certificate names his father as James and gives James' occupation as labourer.  I found the military record for a James Demspey from Hacketstown and think this may be him, but I have no way of knowing if there was more than one James Dempsey in Hacketstown, nor even if our Dempsey's were natives of Hacketstown for years before the military reocrds name that as place of birth. Do you have any suggestions for where I might search for a death record for James? I will have a look for the record you have seen 14/12 - 1821 in the RC records and see what I can make of it.  Thanks again for your help.

Also - thanks to Roger for his advice re the Chirch of Ireland records - sorry I don;t know how to reply to each of you individually.

Hi JM,   To reply just do as you are doing, Roger is a Volunteer in IrelandXO, Im just a passer by who has always believed that everyone is entitled to their own genealogy,  and if I can help, or feel that I have something to offer , then I do, I love searching and IrelandXO is a site that does that at no cost to the person so.......   Im still going over James Army details.  As to getting the details of his Death,that may well be very difficult. The C of I ,  sorry Church of Ireland is usually very good about those records,but as to if they are there, or not.  I rang the Cof I record department in Churchtown Dublin,  to see what was available  and he wasnt very hopeful but the will check.  Knowing or finding a death detail was always,is always a problem before 1864. The only alternative is headstones and which graveyard to look in if they had enough money to get one done. There ars sites that do that, they have millions of records for USA  but I dont know what portion is Irish and you have to pay whatever.  As I said before most Irish Jo Soaps didnt have the money, and as you go back it gets worse untill you get back to the time they were free and then they would have written songs about you.  Best for now Myles

         Hi JM, nothing to report as yet, there is a shortage of records at that time. I did find a sort of town census for one of the towns in the area which leads me to believe ther may be others. I am trying to work on James, his Father as there is nothing that Michael can give me to get his birth.  He did say in his Marriage that his Father was James and his second son was too. He had a family like my Fathers, I would be Albert.  If the second  military record is James his Father,   and I would say that it is, then Michael would have been born before he went into the army.      If times were hard then the Army would have been a good option and it looks like he got a few shillings to join, a godsend for a family man Im sure.         I looked up James pension and although they have no trouble saying that he was a Cat,  one of theirs and give details,   I couldnt find a Pension.   I know that he agreed that he was discharging himself but his ailment happened on their watch. and it seemed like he needed to get himself out for some reason.     The other thing I am trying to find out about is Army pay.   I assume that they got paid. How did they pay , was it to him direct and he had to get something home or did they somehow make a payment direct to the family.  If I cant find records I have to look somewhere.   Its all very interesting.    Best for now Myles

Thanks for your message Myles.  I have looked at the Catholic Church records and agree that the entry for 14/12/1821 may well say Michael of James and Judy. The name Judy never appears in subsequent generations, which makes me question whether this is him or not.  I have had a look on Find a Grave (which is free to search) but there was no James Dempsey in County Carlow Ireland.  There were a few Dempsey's in Wicklow though, that may be of interest to you?

Thanks again for all your help everyone.

               PS.     Hi JM  Just a query, did you get the records from the Army or were they passed down     Best

Hello Myles - thanks for another interesting message and for continuing to help me to pursue this line of enquiry.  The army records were from Find My Past, but I am certain that Michael is correct as I have been in contact with another family member who knows his story and we also have a picure with his Indian Mutiny Medal.

                  Hi JM    I dont doubt for a minute that the Army records are of who you think they are,  My thinking is , I had an old friend when I,, well many years ago , He was old then, He had joined the British army in the second world war, He was wounded and discharged home, anyway he was paid while in the Army , he got some and an allowence was paid to his Family in Ireland.  Thats what I am looking for with James, was he paid and something to his family at home, Where was home ? Do they have or have kept records.  I could ask, but Im not a relative, and Irish,  That why I was hoping that you got them from the Army yourself... Best for now    Myles

Hi Myles - I suppose I could contact the army and ask those questions.  I had never thought of that - so thanks for the tip.

Hi JM       If you can then great .  I know that Michael did get a pension.  If its possible for you, then you might get something or nothing.I didnt want to call them and sour the cream.  Best Myles

        Hi Jm, update,   Im not having much luck with James Im sorry to say.  Hacketstown seems to be an area with about 32 towns in it one is Hacketstown. If James came from that town or the area ?   Didnt find anything in the town. A big shortage of records.  Best for now Myles

Hi Myles

Thanks for the update.  It seems the Dempsey family are rather elusive :0)

I appreciate all the time you have spent looking.

JM

         Hi JM,    The Wicklow Dempseys were a bit like that for a while too but you find something sooner or later, Ill keep looking as I go along. My own Ancesters are a bit like James in that way as I have it back to 1800 my Gt Gt GF and I havent found his Birth yet and thats about forty years looking, it lags way behind, its my second longest search and I recently solved my longest one. More records are coming on line all the time and some of the records these scsnners can read is nothing short of fantastic.  I have to confess I have never paid for information except what I paid in the public record offices.  I enjoy searching so Ill keep looking .  Stay safe  Best for now Myles