Looking for Help in Finding Baptism Record for my Great Grandfather Thomas Herron.

Tim,

Statutory birth, death and marriage registration (in some jurisdictions called Vital Records) only started in Ireland in 1864, save for non RC marriages which were recorded from 1845 onwards.

For earlier years you usually need to rely on church records, where they exist.  Ideally you need to know the precise denomination and have some idea of where the person was born in order to search the correct records. Not all churches have records for that period and not all are on-line.

RC records are mostly on-line on the nli site:  

https://www.nli.ie/en/family-history-introduction.aspx

For other denominations, the churches usually hold the originals but there are also copies in PRONI, the public record office, in Belfast. A personal visit is required to access them. Access to the records there is free. This link explains what records exist, parish by parish:

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/proni-guide-church-records

If you are unable to go yourself, you could employ a researcher. Researchers in the PRONI area: http://sgni.net

I searched then statutory records for a Herron/Heron- King marriage but without success. Those records start in 1845 so suspect the parents married before 1845.

There are many Robert & Jane Heron deaths in the Whiteabbey area (part of Belfast).  Do you know what denomination the family was, and what Robert’s occupation was, as these might help narrow the search?

Regarding service in the Royal Navy, the timings you have given don’t seem to really allow for that. If Thomas was born c 1854/55 and arrived in the US in 1871, then he was only 16 or 17. He wouldn’t really have been old enough to have served in the Royal Navy (unless it was just for a few months).

Hi Elwyn,

Than you for your response!  I do not know much about my Great Great Grandparents (Robert Herron and Jane Wilson) other than them being born in Ireland.  Their son (my Great Grandfather) Thomas Herron was a carpenter all his life, so I am guessing that perhaps his father Robert Herron might have been one as well.    I know that my Great Grandmother Maria (Mary) King  (Thomas Herron's wife) was baptized as RC in June 1855.  I am going to guess that Thomas Herron was also RC as well (or converted at some point) because my Grandmother Jesse Herron was married in an RC church in the US.  I am not aware of any religious conversions in the timeline  Your information has given me a lot to think about.

Thanks again,

Tim Reed.

Tim,

Your extra information may have helped. I have found this death for a Robert Herron who was a Carpenter. He died 28.7.1894, aged 70 (ie born c 1824) and he was a widower. The informant was his step daughter Mary Wilson. (So that could fit with being related to Jane Wilson). The family lived in Ballygoland which is very near Whiteabbey, Co. Antrim.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1894/05960/4694082.pdf

Here’s Jane Heron’s death in 1880, wife of a carpenter. Informant was daughter Mary Jane Heron. Again living in Ballygoland.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1881/06432/4848229.pdf

In the 1800s Ballygolan(d) was a rural townland on the edge of Belfast. Today it’s all been built on and forms part of the city’s suburbs. The modern Whitewell Rd runs through the middle of what was once Ballygolan.

Griffiths Valuation c 1860 lists Robert Herron in Ballygolan in the village of Whitehouse Upper (East side), where he leased an “office” ie business premises.

Your query was to locate Thomas Herron’s baptism. To do that you would need to search the baptism records for churches in the parish of Carnmoney. Most of those records are gathered in PRONI in Belfast, so you might want to employ a researcher to go through them. Researchers in the PRONI area: http://sgni.net

Thank you Elwyn for this great information!  I found the attached document and I am not sure if this is related to the Robert Herron mentioned above.  It seems to be a permission slip for a Robert Herron to allow his son Thomas Herron to join the Royal Navy as Thomas is underage in 1871.  The Thomas Herron here has a different birth date (June 24, 1855) than my Great Grandfather (October 22, 1855), but the town of Carnmoney is mentioned. Unfortunately, the timeline does not match well.  This Royal Navy document says it is a 10-year term, which means Thomas Herron would have to stay in the Royal Nay until 1883.     My Great Grandfather Thomas Herron was living in New York, was married and had two of his five children by that time.   

I will keep digging!  Thanks again,

Tim

Tim,

Your attachment wasn’t attached.  However suppose either Thomas didn’t go ahead with joining the Navy or deserted soon after joining up. That might explain how he was able to be in the US in 1871. I am no expert on military records but it’s possible that there are navy records in the National Archives in Kew London that say what happened to the Robert who joined in 1871. Did he stay in the Navy (in which case it’s not your man) or did he leave or desert? You would need to get a London based researcher to look the military records up in Kew.

I wouldn’t worry too much about the discrepancies in ages on the documents. People in Ireland in the mid 1800s didn’t celebrate birthdays and often didn’t know exactly what their age was. But on top of that it was common to alter ages in order to join the army or navy. If too young you bumped it up, and if too old you chopped a few years off.  No documentary evidence of age was normally required then (and many people didn’t have any. Birth certificates were only introduced in 1864). Dates of birth were often made up in order to satisfy officialdom. The standard advice when searching Irish baptism records is to look 5 years either side of the date that you think a person was born.

Alexander Irvine was born in 1863 in Antrim town and became a Minister living in the US. This extract from his book “The Chimney Corner revisited” perhaps explains why people often had to guess their ages:

“My mother kept a mental record of the twelve births. None of us ever knew, or cared to know, when we were born. When I heard of anybody in the more fortunate class celebrating a birthday I considered it a foolish imitation of the Queen’s birthday, which rankled in our little minds with 25^th December or 12^th July. In manhood there were times when I had to prove I was born somewhere, somewhen, and then it was that I discovered that I also had a birthday. The clerk of the parish informed me.”

Sorry Elwyn.  I have attached it.

Tim

Hi Elwyn,

I attached the wrong document!  Here is the correct one.  My grandmother, through my cousin, said that my Great Grandfather had been in the Navy, but my cousin was not able to determine whether it was the Royal Navy or the US Navy.  My cousin did request a search of the US National Archives back in the 1970s, but no records were found.     You have given me some good tools here and I appreciate your time to help me.

Best Regards,

Tim    

Tim,

The attachment is for Richard Work from Co Donegal, so a different ancestor I think.  If you are looking for the Wark/Work family try Moville Upper parish in Co Donegal. There were several families there in the 1700s and early 1800s. 1774 cess records, for example:

http://donegalgenealogy.com/movilleupproj.htm

Moville Upper has Church of Ireland (COI) records from 1804, Presbyterian from 1837 and RC from 1847. By the wording on his naturalisation document which refers to your ancestor being “a member of the British nation”, I’d suspect he was either COI or Presbyterian.  The COI records are in PRONI in Belfast.

Hi Elwyn,

Yes, this is another ancestor - my 3rd Great Grandfather Richard Work.  Thank you so much for helping me.  I have my work cut out for me, but you have given me some options.   I really appreciate it. 

Thank you,

Tim