Daniel O’Connell

John:

The subscription site Roots Ireland only has two Daniel Connell baptismal records in Co. Longford-- the first in 1838 and the second in 1867. For both records, the father was James. I assume you do not know his mother's maiden name.

Have you considered a general DNA test?

Roger McDonnell

Thanks for your information. I can’t find very much info on Daniel O’Connell, the only thing is in the 1911 census he is recorded as being born in Co Longford.

He does alternate between Connell and O’Connell, even between his children.

On what I believe is his marriage, his father is Michael Connell, but one of the witnesses is John O’Connell who I guess is his brother.

I have done the Ancestry DNA test and have links to some of my ancestors from Ireland (Kelly, Burns, Hoban) but nothing links to the Connell connection and these relatives seem to come from Mayo.

I am going to do a DNA test with Living DNA to see if I get any other matches.

Thanks 

John Connell 

 

Hello John,

I am not related, but see if the information in this reply matches any of the records you have found concerning Daniel O’Connell/Connell, specifically his marriage record, and other records pertaining to members of his family living in St. Helen’s.

I accessed the 1911 census based on your information that he was living in St. Helen’s, Lancashire, and found he was a 52 year old widower. The census, from Ancestry.com, also shows his occupation was in a “Sheet Glass Works.” He was a lodger in the household of 31 year sold Edward and 28 year old Polly Golding of 79 Liverpool Road, St. Helen’s. Edward Golding was a cooper by trade and his wife Polly assisted him in the business, but it appears the Goldings also ran a boarding house, as there are several other lodgers in the household aside from Daniel.

So you don’t have to go through your files to retrieve the 1911 census, you can access it quickly here: https://i2.paste.pics/NNQIV.png

As you had stated in your message to Ireland Reaching Out, the 1911 census shows that Daniel was born in County Longford.

I then looked for Daniel in the 1901 census for St. Helen’s, Lancashire, to see if he had been living with a wife and children. I found that 42 year old Daniel “O’Connel” was married to Jane, who was 34 years old. The census shows that Daniel and Jane had six children. Their address was 57 Albert Street, St. Helen’s.

Go to the following link to access the 1901 census: https://i2.paste.pics/NM24F.png

In the 1901 census Daniel’s occupation is “Glass Labourer,” and so I suspected I had found the right Daniel O’Connell, as the 1911 census shows he was also employed in the glass trade.

In addition, the 1901 census shows that Daniel’s wife Jane was born in St. Helen’s, Lancashire, which indicates that he and Jane were married in England rather than in Ireland.

Daniel and Jane’s oldest child in the household is their 15 year old daughter Mary, who was born in Lancashire, St. Helen’s. I wasn’t sure if Mary was actually their first-born child. They may have had a child before her who had died.

If Mary’s age of 15 is accurate in the census, she would have been born in 1886, which means her parents would have been married sometime before that.

I looked for Daniel and Jane’s marriage index at the FreeBMD website, and uncovered what looks like the marriage index for Daniel “Connell,” showing that he married Jane Killen, and that their marriage was recorded in the Prescot Registration District in the September quarter of 1883. The September quarter is inclusive of the months of July, August, and September.

A transcription of the marriage index from the FreeBMD website is below:

Marriage September Quarter 1883

Daniel Connell
Jane Killen
Registration District: Prescot
Volume: 8b
Page: 1109

Source: FreeBMD
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If you don’t have Daniel and Jane’s civil registration marriage record, it will be in Volume 8b, Page 1109 of the GRO marriage registers.

Several different Lancashire parishes were situated within the Prescot Registration District, including St. Helen’s. See the UK BMD page at: https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/prescot.html

The Prescot Registration District is the district where civil registration births, marriages, and deaths were recorded for those living in St. Helens from 1837 to 1974, when it was divided between the Knowsley and St. Helen’s Registration Districts.

For information about ordering birth, marriage, and death certificates from the GRO, as well as costs for certificates, go to: https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

This was the only marriage index I found for a Daniel O’Connell/Connell in the Prescot, Lancashire Registration District between 1880 and 1911.

Does the above marriage index refer to the marriage record you have for Daniel?

All the information that follows is based on the marriage of Daniel Connell and Jane Killen, although you’ll later see that Jane’s maiden name was not spelled “Killen.”

I next wanted to see if I could find the birth indexes at the GRO website for the six children of Daniel O’Connell/Connell, and Jane Killen. In the 1901 census these children are Mary, John, Rose, Daniel, Thomas, and Agnes.

I didn’t look for their birth indexes at FreeBMD, as FreeBMD does not include the mother’s maiden name in birth indexes until 1911.

But, birth indexes at the GRO website do include the maiden name of the child’s mother in most cases. The birth indexes from the GRO website would also confirm Jane’s maiden name. The GRO website does not offer civil registration marriage indexes, only civil registration birth and death indexes.

I found the GRO birth indexes for the six O’Connell/Connell children recorded in the 1901 census. The child whose birth index I had the most difficulty locating was Agnes’s, as she was recorded under the surname “Connor.”

I also found the birth indexes for children who were born before 1901, but who weren’t recorded in the 1901 census. These children, as you’ll see, are Michael O’Connell and Hubert Connell.

None of the birth indexes I found show their mother’s maiden name was Killen however. The birth indexes spell her maiden name alternatively as Gillan/Gillen/Gillon.

I also found the birth indexes for Connell children born after the 1901 census was taken on 31 March. You’ll see these birth indexes as well.

All of the births were recorded in the Prescot, Lancashire Registration District. I uncovered a total of 10 birth indexes and two death indexes at the GRO website:

Name: O'CONNELL, MICHAEL
Mother's Maiden Surname: GILLAN
GRO Reference: 1884 S Quarter in PRESCOT
Volume 08B Page 786

Name: O'CONNELL, MARY JANE
Mother's Maiden Surname: GILLAN
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in PRESCOT
Volume 08B Page 759

Name: O'CONNELL, JOHN THOMAS
Mother's Maiden Surname: GILLAN
GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in PRESCOT
Volume 08B Page 748

Name: CONNELL, ROSANNA
Mother's Maiden Surname: GILLAN
GRO Reference: 1890 M Quarter in PRESCOT
Volume 08B Page 751

Name: CONNELL, DANIEL
Mother's Maiden Surname: GILLEN
GRO Reference: 1893 M Quarter in PRESCOT
Volume 08B Page 758

Name: CONNELL, THOMAS
Mother's Maiden Surname: GILLAN
GRO Reference: 1895 M Quarter in PRESCOT
Volume 08B Page 749

Name: CONNELL, HUBERT
Mother's Maiden Surname: GILLON
GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in PRESCOT
Volume 08B Page 766

Name: CONNELL, PATRICK
Mother's Maiden Surname: GILLAN
GRO Reference: 1901 J Quarter in PRESCOT
Volume 08B Page 786

Name: CONNELL, MICHAEL
Mother's Maiden Surname: GILLON
GRO Reference: 1902 S Quarter in PRESCOT
Volume 08B Page 874

Name: CONNOR, AGNES
Mother's Maiden Surname: GILLAN
GRO Reference: 1899 J Quarter in PRESCOT
Volume 08B Page 789
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The next two GRO indexes are for the deaths of Michael and Hubert Connell also recorded in the Prescot Registration District:

Name: CONNELL, MICHAEL
Age at Death (in years): 3
GRO Reference: 1888 J Quarter in PRESCOT
Volume 08B Page 437

Name: CONNELL, HUBERT
Age at Death (in years): 0
GRO Reference: 1897 J Quarter in PRESCOT
Volume 08B Page 471
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All of the birth and death indexes can be ordered online from the aforementioned GRO.

THE 1891 CENSUS

In the 1891 census, 30 year old Daniel, his 24 year old wife Jane, and three of their children are recorded under the name “Connor.” Their address is 63 Bold Street, St. Helen’s. Daniel’s occupation is “Chemical labourer,” but the census doesn’t say what industry he worked in. It does shows he was employed at the time, and was born in Ireland. His wife Jane was born in St. Helen’s, as were the three children. These children are 6 year old Jane, a “scholar;” 4 year old John, also a “Scholar;” and 2 year old Rosa.

The child named Jane would actually be the Mary Jane recorded in the 1901 census. You can access the 1891 census for the “Connor” family at: https://i2.paste.pics/NOORW.png

DEATH INDEXES

Below may be the death index for Daniel’s wife Jane Connell. The death index is from the GRO website. Jane’s death was recorded in the Prescot Registration District in the March quarter of 1904, and shows Jane was 39 years old when she died:

Name: CONNELL, JANE
Age at Death (in years): 39
GRO Reference: 1904 M Quarter in PRESCOT
Volume 08B Page 569
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In the 1901 census Jane’s age was 34, but her death record just three years later in 1904, gives her age as 39. This shows you cannot always trust the accuracy of a person’s age in either census or death records.

Your information shows that Daniel O’Connell died in 1912. The following looks like his death index from the GRO, which shows his death was recorded in the Prescot Registration District in the June quarter of 1912. He was 50 years old at the time of death, though in the 1911 census he was 52:

Name: O'CONNELL, DANIEL
Age at Death (in years): 50
GRO Reference: 1912 J Quarter in PRESCOT
Volume 08B Page 854
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After learning that Daniel and Jane O’Connell had several children as found in the 1901 census and in the GRO birth indexes, I wondered what happened to them. None of Daniel’s children were in the household with him in the 1911 census when he was living in the Golding household in the Liverpool Road, St. Helen’s.

I managed to locate Daniel and Jane’s two daughters, Rose Ann and Agnes O’Connell in the 1911 census. Rose Ann was 21 years old and Agnes 13.

They were not easily found in the 1911 census. They were nieces living in the household of 34 year old Alexander O’Donnell and his 38 year old wife Ellen. Their address was 42 Morley St., St Helens, Lancashire.

The census comes from Ancestry.com, but the index for the census of the O’Donnell household erroneously transcribes Rose Ann and Agnes’s last names as O’Donnell, as you’ll see in the index coming up. This transcription error made it more of a challenge to locate Rose Ann and Agnes O’Connell.

1911 England Census

Civil parish St Helens
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Street Address 42 Morley St St Helens Lancs

Registration District Number 456
Sub-registration district St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel 10
Piece 22764

Household Members (Name) Age Relationship

Alexander Odonnell 34 Head
Ellen Odonnell 38 Wife
Rose Ann Odonnell 21 Niece
Agnes Odonnell 13 Niece

Source Citation
The National Archives of the UK (TNA); Kew, Surrey, England; Census Returns of England and Wales, 1911

Source Information
Ancestry.com. 1911 England Census [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011.
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A copy of the original 1911 census however, shows Rose Ann and Agnes are “O’Connell,” as you can see here: https://i2.paste.pics/NN2L1.png

The 1911 census further shows that Alexander’s occupation was, “Glasssmiths Striker” in a “Sheet Glass Wks.” One question is, did Alexander O’Donnell and Daniel O’Connell work at the same glass works?

The 1911 census also shows that Alexander and Ellen had been married for 2 years. Their niece, Rose Ann O’Connell was employed as a “Wardrobe Dealer.” Her sister Agnes was in “School.” All in the household were born in St. Helen’s, Lancashire.

The other question is, how were Alexander O’Donnell and Daniel O’Connell related, being as Daniel was born in County Longford, Ireland, and Alexander in St. Helen’s, Lancashire, England?

To see if I could find out more information, I looked for Alexander and Ellen’s marriage at the FreeBMD website. The 1911 census shows they were married for 2 years.

I found their marriage index at FreeBMD, which shows that Alexander O’Donnell and Ellen Boken’s marriage was recorded in the Prescot Registration District in the March quarter of 1909.

Marriage March Quarter 1909

Ellen Boken
Alexander O'Donnell
Registration District: Prescot
Volume: 8b
Page: 819
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To see if I could uncover even more information about Alexander O’Donnell, I looked for him in the 1901 census, as the census may give a clue as to his relationship to Daniel O’Connell.

As you saw in the 1911 census, Alexander is shown to be 34 years old which ostensibly places his year of birth in 1877. The 1911 census also shows he was born in St. Helen’s.

I had a double surprise when I found 24 year old Alexander O’Donnell in the 1901 census living in the household of 60 year old widow, Rose A. Gillen, and her 30 year old widowed daughter, Ellen Boken, who I suspect would be Alexander’s future wife. Alexander’s occupation looks like “Platelayer” for a “Railway.” Ellen’s occupation looks like “Coke Picker Glass Works.”

The address of the household is 51 Bold Street, St. Helen’s.

Rose Gillen would likely have been related to Daniel O’Connell’s wife, Jane Gillen. I think that it would be through this connection that Rose Ann and Agnes O’Connell would have been related to Alexander through his wife, Ellen Boken, and Ellen’s mother Rose Gillen.

What this indicates is that Alexander was related to Rose Ann and Agnes O’Connell by marriage, and not by bloodline.

The 1901 census shows that Rose Gillen was born in Ireland. Also in the household with Rose is her 29 year old single daughter Elizabeth, a Coke Picker in the Glass Works. Rose has two grandsons in the household, 9 year old James Gillen and 7 year old Thomas Gillen.

Everyone in the household, except for Rose A. Gillen, was born in St. Helen’s. See the 1901 census at: https://i2.paste.pics/NNBTT.png

Rose’s household is at the bottom of the census page.

Concerning Ellen Gillen, she had married John Bokan in the December quarter of 1892, according to the marriage index from FreeBMD. See the index transcription below:

Marriage December Quarter 1892

John Bokan
Ellen Gillen
Registration District: Prescot
Volume: 8b
Page: 1121
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John’s death was recorded under the surname spelling of “Bowken,” as you’ll see below. He was 25 years old when he died less than a year after he and Ellen Gillen were married:

Death September Quarter 1893

John Bowken
Age at Death: 25
Registration District: Prescot
Volume: 8b
Page: 589
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The link coming up will take you to a Google Map of St. Helen’s, showing the location of the Liverpool Road where Daniel O’Connell lived according to the 1911 census; Morley Street, where Alexander O’Donnell and his family, including his nieces Rose Ann and Agnes O’Connell lived as shown in the 1911 census; Albert Street, where Daniel and Jane O’Connel and their children were living as shown in the 1901 census; and Bold Street, where Daniel and Jane “Connor” and children were living as recorded in the 1891 census.

On the map, you’ll also see just to the east of the Liverpool Road and Bold Street, the World of Glass Museum. I’ll have more about the museum coming up: https://tinyurl.com/53ywsj6s

The homepage for the World of Glass Museum can be found at: https://worldofglass.com/

The World of Glass Museum also includes a section called, “The History That Transformed St Helens: An Industrial Town.”

The history shows that in the 1800s the glass manufacturer in St. Helen’s was first, “The St Helens Crown Glass Company,” which was succeeded by “Pilkington Brothers.” It was the Pilkington Brothers glass manufacturer that Daniel O’Connell was likely employed by. See:
https://worldofglass.com/the-history-that-transformed-st-helens

The World of Glass Museum is located at Chalon Way East, St. Helen’s. See the Google Street View at: https://tinyurl.com/tvv6ppvs

This Google Street View shows the Albert Street cul-de-sac near the Pilkington Float Manufacturing Company: https://tinyurl.com/zvna2x2a

Pilkington’s is now owned by a Japanese concern called the NSG Group: See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilkington

If your ancestors were Roman Catholic, they may have attended the Most Holy Cross and St. Helen’s Catholic Church in Corporation Street.

The church is south of Morley and Albert Streets and east of the Liverpool Road and Bold Street. The World of Glass Museum is just south of the church, as you can see in this addition to the Google Map referenced earlier: https://tinyurl.com/yb2tssrb

This is a Google Street View of the church: https://tinyurl.com/5xk2efnn

Construction of the church began in 1860. The church was opened on 1 May 1862. See the Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Cross_Church,_St_Helens

John, if Daniel and Jane O’Connell’s children were baptized in this church, the children’s godparents, also called “Sponsors,” may have been related to Daniel and Jane. In many cases the godparents were brothers or sisters of the child’s parents. Contact the church to see how you may access the baptism records from the 1880s into the early 20th century if this was the O’Connell family’s parish church in St. Helen’s.

The church home page can be found at: https://holycrosssthelens.business.site/

With Kind Regards,

Dave Boylan

SOURCES

Ancestry.com
FreeBMD
General Register Office (GRO) Southport, Merseyside
UK BMD
World of Glass Museum, St. Helen’s
Wikipedia

Dave,

Thanks for all your information, and what an impressive piece of research. Most of the information I have obtained already but it took me many months to achieve what you have done in about a day.

One significant piece of information which I will add to mine is the birth of Michael in 1884. I had found out his birth record but my source(Find my Past) didn’t include his mothers maiden name, unlike most of the other records. This does fit very nicely as you note that there would otherwise be a lengthy period between their marriage and their first child. Naming him Michael would give additional credence to Daniels father being also named Michael.

I have a copy of the marriage certificate for Daniel and Jane ‘Killen’ and I was hoping to spot a wrong translation but it very much looks like K on the certificate.

I think that it may be down to  misunderstanding between the registrar and a possible Irish accent.

The main issue clouding my assumptions is the 1891 census for the gillen family which records Jane as being single and at home. I’m currently ignoring this fact due to the wealth of evidence which seems to confirm the marriage.

I also obtained the marriage certificate for Ellen Gillen and John Boken to compare. Unfortunately the addresses for the sisters are different, although they both had Thomas Gillan as their father, and both weddings took place at Sacred Heart Church in St. Helens.

I have both Jane and Daniels death certificates, Janes was witnessed by her husband and Daniels by his daughter Mary Jane (Quinn).

The family links between the O’Connels and O’Donnels were through the Gillan Sisters. Elizabeth has two illegitimate children with James O’Donnell then at least two more after they were married. James’ brother Alexander married Ellen after the death of John Boken

Three of the Connell children were looked after by Elizabeth and Ellen as you spotted on the 1911 census.

Thanks again for your help.

John Connell.

PS I’m so impressed by the response to my question on the Roscommon site I think I will post some questions about ancestors in other counties.

You're welcome John and many thanks for your kind reply and the additional information you provided. After reading your reply I can see that you've done some very extensive research into your St. Helen's ancestors, not to mention the expense of purchasing birth, marriage, and death records pertaining to them. Then too, researching available English records, and cross-channel Irish records, can be a very challenging undertaking.

The Find My Past website does have some very knowledgeable people like Roger McDonnell, Patricia, McCoy, Elwyn, Shane Wilson, and many other volunteers who should be able to help you to find records for your other Irish ancestors. 

Again, thank you for your reply John, and best of luck with your continued research.

With Kind Regards,

Dave