Patrick Ponsonby, a cooper, was born in Ireland about 1818. We do not know the names of his parents and need to find them. We have no record of his christening, but he was a Roman Catholic later in life, so we assume he was christened in a Catholic church. He married Mary O’Brien; again we have no record of this. His son Patrick was born about 1839, in Limerick, Limerick, Ireland; this information comes from the younger Patrick’s enlistment papers in the US Army. He had two daughters; Mary was born in 1840 in Ireland and Katy was born in 1846 in Ireland, as recorded in the US Federal Census. Patrick sailed on the ship A.Z. from Liverpool to New York City, arriving on 16 May 1848. He did not travel with his wife and children, but with 2 Ponsonby women who may have been his sisters. We have no passenger list showing Mary and the 3 children. Two years later Patrick, Mary and the children show up on the 1850 US Federal Census in St. Charles, Kane County, Illinois. This was a very small frontier town founded in 1834, and another Ponsonby family was there as well. We assume Patrick went to St. Charles because he knew his relative Michael (1802-1872) was there. We can find no documentary evidence on the relationship, but DNA tests on descendants show they may have been brothers. Patrick lived in St. Charles until at least 1855, perhaps 1860. He then moved to Chicago where he lived the rest of his life. He continued to work as a cooper and apprenticed his son and grandsons in the trade. His son John E. passed away on June 23, 1885, in Cook County, Illinois. Patrick’s wife Mary passed away on June 3, 1891, in Chicago, Illinois, at the age of 76. Patrick Ponsonby died on June 2, 1897, in Cook County, Illinois, when he was 79 years old. At the time of his death he owned 4 small houses in Chicago.
We have recently found baptism records at St. John's Limerick that appear to be for his son Patrick(1839) and daughter Mary Anne(1840) but the surname is Punch. Would like to determine if this is the right family. I am aware of Punchaby being a surname variant. Also aware of 2 sisters, Dora Punch O'Shaughnessy (1830-1913) and Margaret Ponsonby Ennis, who wrote letters to "dear sister" including one that said "father died and is buried here." We do not know why they used different surnames, or, for that matter, that they are related to Patrick Ponsonby. Dora's descendants, who still have the letters, are certain that the two were sisters. This case may argue for the baptism records being for Patrick's children. If so, they are the first records we have found in Ireland, and confirmation that the family lived in Limerick for some years. Dora was born in Lurriga and married from St. Mungret, by the way.
If we could find any occupational record for Patrick Punch, cooper, in Limerick between about 1835 and 1848, that would be helpful. If we could find a ship's manifest for Mary Punch traveling to the United States or Canada with children Patrick, Mary Anne, and Katy between about 1843 and 1848, that would also be helpful. Then perhaps searching for Patrick's baptism or marriage in Ireland under the surname Punch would yield results where Ponsonby has not.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Saturday 6th May 2023, 04:45AM
Message Board Replies
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Attached Files
Attached records for a Patrick Punch - 1839 and Mary 1840.
Subscription site www.rootsireland.ie has a Terence Punch baptised in St. John' on January 10th 1842 and Catherine March 17th 1843.
I have not found any record for the marriage of Patrick Punch and Mary O'Brien. The surname "Punch" was common in the area of Knockaney in South County Limerick.
The following is from Surnames of Ireland by Dr. Edward MacLysaght - 3rd Edition 1972:
"Punch" -Puinse This name of Norman origin (derived from Pontius) was first established in County Kildare c1290 and later associated with Munster. Its older form Poyntz is in Armagh but did not come there till the seventeenth century.
"Ponsonby" An influential Anglo-Irish family for two centuries from mid-seventeenth, when they acquired estates in Kerry and Kilkenny. That of the latter branch, whose head became Earl of Bessborough, was very extensive.
Regards,
McCoy
Saturday 6th May 2023, 07:36AM -
Attached Files
Punch - Margaret - Baptism Patrickswell - June 26th 1820. Father: Patrick Punch - Mother: Bridget Lynch.
Punch - Patrick - Baptism - March 10th 1817. Father: Patrick Punch - Mother: Elizabeth Hayes; Punch -Patrick - Baptism - Knockainy- March 3rd 1819. Father: Patrick Punch: Mother: Catherine Fitzgerald; Punch - Patrick - Baptism - Knockainy - April 22nd 1822.
Tithe Records - Mungret: Year not shown: Farming 38 acres of land.
Surnames: Pontze and Punch recorded in County Clare 1901 Irish census. Source: clarelibrary.ie/genealogy. No record found for a Ponsoby in County Clare.
Credit: Subscription sites www.findmypast.ie and www.rootsireland.ie
Regards,
McCoy
Saturday 6th May 2023, 01:45PM -
Thank you very much, McCoy! We have just recently found the St. John's baptisms and hope to be able to show they are the same family as my Patrick Ponsonby and Mary O'Brien. If they are the same family, my brick wall has been broken! How might we go about proving the theory?
I am looking into the other links you listed. In the meantime, I have questions!
What is the source of these 3 baptisms? What church were they from? How did you find them?
Punch - Patrick - Baptism - March 10th 1817. Father: Patrick Punch - Mother: Elizabeth Hayes;
Punch -Patrick - Baptism - Knockainy- March 3rd 1819. Father: Patrick Punch: Mother: Catherine Fitzgerald;
Punch - Patrick - Baptism - Knockainy - April 22nd 1822. (parents?)
The Punch Pat Mungret Limerick looks like an index, what more is known about the document? what is the meaning of this entry?
We really appreciate your help!
Wednesday 10th May 2023, 11:05PM -
Is there another source besides NLI?
Looking at Catholic Parish Registers at NLI, I can only find one of the 3 baptisms transcribed above that might be my Patrick, and it says:
1817, March 10, Patt, of Richard Punch farmer Lough and Eliza Hayes [father is Richard not Patrick] [this in Knockainy register]
The 1822 baptism is so dark that I can't see the date or name clearly and wonder how anyone could have transcribed it without access to the original. (This book has a note saying it was bound out of order and I have not checked every page that includes baptisms. But I don't think he was born as late as 1822 anyway. He used 1818 as birth year more often than not, and not later than 1820 in the 7 US sources that I have.)
The 1819, March 3, doesn't even look like a baptism and I don't see Punch anywhere. It says M. ??? Dinn? For Lough & Honor Knox [I would really like to find the original record to go with the transcription above, because this or the 1817 might be him.]
Thursday 11th May 2023, 05:04AM -
Attached Files
Baptism Records for Patrick Punch 1817 - 1822 - Source - www.find my past - Subscription Site.
Transcribed record of Patrick Punch for 1819 - Source - Subscription Site - www.rootsireland.ie
Parish record attached, but not legible. I suggest you contact www.limerickgenealogy.com for clarification.
I will follow up on your other queries.
Regards,
McCoy
Thursday 11th May 2023, 08:24AM -
Attached Files
(1) Punch - Patk - Mungret - Record for the townland of Cunnigar - Parish of Mungret
(2) Error
(3) in regard to the trade of "Cooper", the earliest entry I found was for Bassett's Directory in 1877. The name John is recorded at various addresses in the city. No "Patrick Punch" found.
Regards,
McCoy
Thursday 11th May 2023, 12:41PM -
Attached Files
Addresses for a Patrick Punch in Limerick City. Possibly one was his home before he emigrated?
Credit: www.askaboutireland.ie/Griffith's Valuation
Regards,
McCoy
Thursday 11th May 2023, 01:45PM -
Attached Files
The Coopers of Limerick
Please see attached report by Morgan McCloskey.
Regards,
McCoy
Thursday 11th May 2023, 04:56PM