Church where my 2x gr. grandfather was baptized- Parish Forgney/Co. Longford

Debbie:

There are two side by side RC parishes which are partially in Co. Longford and partially in Co. Westmeath. One parish is Drumraney/Forgney which I believe is the parish for your Michael Flynn baptismal record. The other parish is Moyvore. Note the church for Moyvore is in Co. Westmeath as you indicated. Both parishes are in the Diocese of Meath.

Here is a link to the Diocese of Meath website  https://www.dioceseofmeath.ie/map-of-parishes   where you can find the two parishes. I would enter Drumraney and then a second search for Moyvore.

Let me know if you have further questions.

Roger McDonnell

Hi Roger,

Thank you so very much for your quick response. I did go to the website. This is what I found. I am hoping you can help me further or maybe I should contact the email address at the church directly. I put in Drumraney as you suggested. 

I got both Imm. Conception, Drumraney and Imm. Comception Forgney (the baptismal certificate says Forgney so I am learning on this)

I also keyed in Moyvore- I got St. Patrick's Church- Moyvore.

Based on the baptismal record, which church do you think? I would really like to find the right church before I come over. 

This organization/website is wonderful. I just gave a donation.

Thank-you for any further suggestions,

Debbie Colson

Debbie:

Thanks so much for the donation!

I think you want to go to the Immaculate Conception church in Drumraney which I believe is actually in Westmeath. An e-mail to the parish ahead of time would be helpful. It looks like Forgney church (Immaculate Conception) is a subordinate chapel to Drumraney with only one weekend Mass at 6:15 on Saturdays. The records would be maintained  at Drumraney. The Forgney church from the picture appears to have been built after 1837  See this link go to bottom of page   https://ballymoreanddrumraneyparishes.ie/   There is a Forgney church Facebook page which does not appear to have much activity

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100079779952305

There is another resource that I use occasionally called the Lewis Topographical Dictionary of Ireland. It was prepared by Samuel Lewis around 1837. It has an overview of each civil parish in Ireland mainly focusing on the Church of Ireland parish but the last sentence or two covers the RC parish. Below are overviews of Forgney civil parish and Noughaval civil parish. I think that at some point, 19th century? or later the church in Forgney was realigned under Drumraney parish.

Let me know if you have further questions.

Roger

FORGNEY, or CLONCALL, a parish, in the barony of ABBEYSHRUEL, county of LONGFORD, and province of LEINSTER, 2 miles (S. E.) from Ballymahon, on the road to Mullingar ; containing 2241 inhabitants, and comprising 5832 statute acres, of which 4446 are applotted under the tithe act ; 32 acres are woodland, 1945 arable, 1782 pasture, and 2073 bog and waste, being almost exclusively the property of the Countess Dowager of Rosse. A canal passes within a quarter of a mile of the parish. The seats are Newcastle, that of the Countess Dowager of Rosse, situated in a demesne of more than 480 acres ; Cloncallow, of W. T. Murray, Esq. ; Creevagh, of R. Sandys, Esq. ; Prospect, of T. Bradin, Esq. ; Clinan, of Bevan C. Slator, Esq., and Forgney, of W. Atkinson, Esq. The living is a perpetual cure, in the diocese of Meath, comprehending the parishes of Forgney and Nogheval, and in the patronage of the Bishop, to whom the rectory is appropriate. The tithes amount to £200. The church is a plain building, enlarged, in 1810, by a donation from the Countess Dowager of Rosse, and to the repairs of which the Ecclesiastical Commissioners have recently granted £316. In the R. C. divisions the parish forms part of the union or district of Moyvore, and contains a chapel. A free school is supported by Lady Rosse and the Bishop of Meath ; and there is a school under the National Board, in which are 80 boys and 55 girls. There are the remains of an old church, adjoining which is a burial-place. Oliver Goldsmith was born at Pallice, in 1728 ; the house is now in ruins.

NOGHEVAL, or NOUGHOVAL, a parish, partly in the barony of ABBEYSHRUEL, county of LONGFORD, but chiefly in that of KILKENNY WEST, county of WESTMEATH, and province of LEINSTER, 6 miles (W. N. W.) from Ballymore, on the road from Athlone to Ballymahon ; containing 4154 inhabitants. It is bounded on the west by Lough Ree, and the navigable river Inny flows through its northern portion. A monastery of Dominican friars was founded at Ardnacraney, in the 14th century, by Robert Dillon, of Drumraney. Several battles were fought here between the Irish and the Danes, The parish comprises 11,520 statute acres, of which 11,371 are applotted under the tithe act : agriculture is improving ; the land is chiefly under pasture, with some bog, extending along the confines of Longford county to the shores of Lough Ree, the islets of Inchbofin and Inisturk in which belong to this parish. The soil rests on limestone ; and quarries of a species of red marble have been opened on the lands of Cartron : there are several corn-mills on the Inny. The gentlemens seats are Littleton Lodge, the residence of W. Lennox Napier, Esq. ; Longfield, of J. Langstaff, Esq. ; Ardnacrany, of J. T. Madden, Esq. ; Noghaville, of W. Dawson, Esq. ; Lessaquille, of Harding Fetherstone, Esq. ; Annville, of S. Longworth, Esq. ; Clonkeen, of E. Coffy, Esq. : and in that part which is in the county of Longford are Cartron, the residence of J. Wright, Esq. ; and Rathmore, of R. C. Barbor, Esq. It is a rectory, in the diocese of Meath, entirely impropriate in the Bishop : the tithes amount to £450, payable to the bishop's lessee, In the R. C. divisions it forms part of the union or district of Drumraney, and contains a chapel at Tung. There are seven private schools, in which about 314 children are educated. Ruins of a church stand on the lands of Noghaville, and of an ancient castle at Lisduffe. Old coins are frequently being dug up here.

Hi Roger,

Thank-you for your continued help. I will be contacting both parishes Drumraney and Forgney for further help way before my trip. 

I enjoyed reading the overviews on the parishes as well from the 19th century. 

the best,

Debbie

Debbie,

I see that Roger has helped you out a lot here already.

There are Civil Parishes and Catholic Parishes in all Counties in Ireland and they do not always match. The Civil Parishes tend to be larger than the Catholic Parishes. Most administrative records tend to be based on Civil Parishes.

In County Longford, Forgney Civil Parish matches closely with Moyvore RC Parish. Part of Moyvore RC Parish lies in County Longford and part in County Westmeath as Roger says. The County Westmeath part of Moyvore RC Parish is known as Templepatrick Civil Parish.

https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0954

I see a Timothy Flynn recorded at Kildordan Townland and a Charles Flynn recorded at Rath Townland, both in Forgney Civil Parish, County Longfrd at the time of Griffith's Primary Valuation in 1854.

I see a Patt (Patrick) Flynn recorded at Rath Townland in Forgney Civil Parish at the time of the 1829 Tithe Applotment Books for Forgney Civil Parish:

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587443/00…

Patt Flynn was the only person with the Flynn surname recorded in Forgney Civil Parish in 1829.

Here's a link to Michael Flynn's, son of Michael Flynn & Catherine Kenny, 28 May 1837 Baptisal record on the Moyvore RC Parish on the National Library of Ireland website:

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635251#page/38/mode/1up

No Townland address is given.

I found two siblings for Michael Flynn as follows:

Mary Flynn, baptised 01 April 1834, Moyvore RC Parish:

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635251#page/19/mode/1up

No Townland address is given.

Catherine Flynn, baptised 04 April 1841, Carrickedmond & Abbeyshrule RC Parish:

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632358#page/31/mode/1up

The address is given as Ratharney Townland.

This is an important find, as it places the family at a very specific Townland location in 1841.

I found a burial record for a Mary Kenny, Ratharney 16 August 1862 in the Carrickedmond & Abbeyshrule RC Parish. Perhaps she could have been Catherine Kenny's mother ?.

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632358#page/144/mode/1up

Finally, another possible lead, in an 1880 Marriage of Mary Flynn, Clooneen, daughter of Michael Flynn:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_re…

Clooneen Townland is in Forgney Civil Parish.

Ages are frequently incorrect on Marriage Certificates, so could this be the Mary Flynn, baptised in 1834 above ?.

As I see Flynns recorded in the County Longford part of Moyvore RC Parish (i.e. in Forgney Civil Parish) and no Flynns recorded in the County Westmeath part of Moyvore RC Parish (i.e. in Kilpatrick Civil Parish) at the times of the c1830 Tithe Applotment Books and at the time of the 1854 Griffith's Primary Valuation, I believe the Forgney and Abbeyshrule areas of County Longford would appear to be the areas you should concentrate on when you visit Ireland.

Hoping this helps you further,

Hi David, Thank you so very, very much for your additional help. I do have Michael's baptismal records and those of his sisters Mary and Catherine. It is good to have them confirmed by a 2nd person though. The names on those Griffith's list could certainly be relatives and this is worth looking into. 

I do not think the marriage record of this Mary is the sister of Michael. Michael's father was deceased by 1862 according to Michael's marriage record from Bolton, England plus this Mary was older. She could have been a cousin. I do want to pursue the death record of Mary(Maria) Kenny. That certainly could be Catherine Kenny's mother. 

I appreciate the hint to focus on Forgney and Abbeyshrule areas in Longford for the church Michael was baptized in.

This helps a bunch!

with much appreciation,

Debbie Colson

Roger or David,

Do you know if Milltown/Moyvore is a RC Parish? I emailed Forgney/Drumraney RC and a staff person said that I needed to contact Milltown/Moyvore. They didnt have a email address but I was given a 'snail mail' address. The Priest is Fr. Fitzsimmons. I am still confused. I am just hoping to find the right church if either one of you have anymore insight. 

I received this from a Caroline from the Forgney/Drumraney email address:

“The Parish of Forgney and Drumraney only joined in recent years.

Prior to that Forgney was joined with Moyvore.

So you will need to make contact with the parish office in Milltown/Moyvore and they may be able to assist you better.

They don't have an email address that I know of, the priest is Fr Fitzsimons. "

thank you very much,

Debbie

Debbie,

I found the same details on the following website:

https://www.dioceseofmeath.ie/priests

Very Rev. William Fitzsimons PP

Parish:

Milltown-Empor-Moyvore

Telephone:  044-935 5106

Email:​

Website:​

Address:  Parochial House, Milltown, Mullingar, County Westmeath.

Rev. Fitzsimons appears to be dealing with Moyvore and Milltown and Empor Parishes.

I found the following in relation to Forgney RC Church in County Longford:

https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/13402726/ch…

Ballincurra RC Church is the other Church in Moyvore RC Parish and lies in County Westmeath.

https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/15401708/sa…

David:

Thanks for your assistance!

Roger

Thank- you again David. I am waiting for a reply from Fr. Fritsimmons or one of his staff members.
So in summary, does it seem like Michael's church would have been 
 Forgney, but I am going to get the information in Milltown/
Moyvore?
as always thank-you,
Debbie

Debbie,

Fr. Fitzsimons should be able to assist you.

However, the records held locally will probably be the same as those digitised on the National Library of Ireland website, which I have linked for you above.

Thanks a bunch David!! You volunteers are wonderful and I will donate again soon.

Bingo! Success!

Thank you both David and Roger for your help. I received a letter from Fr. Frizsimons confirming that my 2x great grandfather was baptised at Forgney Church of the Imm. Conception. As you both suggested, Forgney joined Drumranney. He even sent me a certified copy of his baptismal certificate and stated there at least Kenny's and Lloyd's still in the area.

Also thanks for the lead of his sister Mary Flynn Lloyd/Loyd. After further research, this was the correct record and she married when she was older. She was 10 years older than the groom. I was able to double check this with the 1901 and the 1911 census.

Do we have access to census in Ireland later than 1911?

very thankful for your help,

Debbie Colson

Debbie:

Glad we were able to assist you! You will have to wait until 2026 for the release of the 1926 census. There was no census in 1921 because of the War of Independence.

Roger

Debbie,

Great that Fr. Fitzsimons responded to your query.

This looks like Mary Flynn Lloyd's death certificate:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

It appears as if Thomas Lloyd married a second time:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_re…

and this looks like her husband Thomas Lloyd's death certificate:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

William Lloyd, Thomas Lloyd's brother, was recorded at Rath Townland in the 1901 Census:

http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001021415/

William Lloyd, Thomas Lloyd's brother, was recorded at Rath Townland in the 1911 Census:

http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002882599/

Hoping this helps further,

Thank you Roger for the additional information on the census.

Thank you David for the additional information on the Lloyd's. This is very helpful. In fact, I just posted to the Facebook group on the Forgney church and I received a friend request from a lady who said she is related to the Lloyd's.

in much appreciation,

Debbie

Debbie,

That's great, hoping that lady has more information to help you fill in some more balnks on your Family Tree.

All the Best,

blanks, that is