Murphy's of Rathcorney Parish

Barb,

You said you were missing the generation "below him"....do you mean his children? Or his parents? The clarelibrary.ie shows two children born to Michael Murphy and Elizabeth Lysaght:

Michael John on 17 Jun 1873, in Poulacoppl, sponsors are Terrence Liddy & Mary Liddy

Mary Joanna on 1 Jun 1875, in Poulacopel, sponsors are Patrick Murphy & Rebecca Lysaght. 

The RC parish for this town land is Ballyvaughn. 

Regards,

Dear Barb:

I am the County Clare Coordinator for5 the IrelandXO program and many thanks for your post to the message board.  

It is great news to hear that you have been able to connect back to a specific place in Ireland.

There is someone locally in the area who I will contact on your behalf to see if they can add any further information or assist with any remaining family members in the area.  

If you would like to share any further information, or send me your email details, please feel free to do so at:  tulla@irelandxo.com  

Beannachtaí,

Jane 

Hullo Carolyn and Jane,

Carolyn you mention Michael Murphy who married Lizzie Lysaght who had at least 6 children in Poulacapple, according to the Civil Parish records of births, the first one recorded in 1873. This Michael Murphy is about the same generation as my Great Grandmother. The table below shows the generations and how they relate.

An Australian cousin, Ann, and I share dna of 4th cousins.

Ann's oral history identifies Poulacapple and Ballyvaughan as the place of birth of her great grandfather, Patrick Murphy about 1846/1849 who migrated to Aust about 1868 at about 19 yrs of age. Her 2 x Great Grandparents are given as: William Murphy and Mary Jordan. (Jordan is a local name)

My Great grandparent Bridget Murphy identifies Co. Clare as her place of birth (and Co. Cork is suggested in oral history) in 1849/1850, she migrated to Aust in 1861 at about 12yrs old. My 2 x Great Grandparents are Michael Murphy and Bridget O'Brien. (O'Brien is a local name). There is no record of her parents to be found in Victoria, it is assumed she came out with siblings or other family. To date this information has not been found.

So we have the names of our 2 x Great Grandparents. Using a rough rule of thumb to work out generations, Michael Murphy, mentioned in Griffiths Evaluation in 1855 in Poulacapple would be the shared 4 x great grandparent.

So, we know our 2 x Grant grandparents and our 4 x great grandfather, but we are missing the generation of the 3 x great grandparents.

This is complicated with the presence of Timothy Murphy born in Cork, Co. Cork about 1833 who is buried in the grave with Ann's great grandfather Patrick Murphy. Timothy Murphy's parents are Michael Murphy (a millwright) and Ann Honora McDonnell. Timothy is reputedly a convict but we haven't been able to track down his records yet. We assume Timothy Murphy is related to our Poulacapple family, but how exactly we don't know.

I have compiled the records of Griffiths evaluation, the Tithe Applottments, the church baptisms. I am currently working through the Civil births, deaths and marriages just building a composition of the Murphy families in Ballyvaughan. None of these however give me the information I require: the possible names of the elusive 3 x great grandparents. Neither can I confirm the names of our 2 x great grandparents or our great grandparents in Poulacapple. The records are just out of date range. Darn.

My cousin Ann will be visiting Poulacapple this year we expect. She can look at graves in the local Rathborney church and might find something there. I felt that our only other possibility is if there is a local Murphy who might know the history of the family.

Of interest to me is that my 4 x Great grandfather Michael Murphy rented all the townland of Poulacapple, a significant acreage that cost 85/- in annual rent in 1855. In the Tithe Applotments of 1829, there were no Murphy's there in Poulacapple (it was John McDonough) but there were two Murphy's in the neighbourhood who rented less than an acre each. By 1906 it was John Fitzgerald who was the landowner of Poulacapple. So, it seems to me that my 4 x great grandfather came 'out of nowhere' to rent a large estate, then his family dispersed with the Michael Murphy who married Lizzie Lysaght possibly the last Murphys to live in Poulacapple (they were there in 1880 where their daughter Christianna Bridget was born).

My email is brbmullen@gmail.com 

If the Clare library would like my copies of the Murphy families of Ballyvaughan data, I would be happy to share. 

cheers,

Barb

Hi Barb:

Thanks for the further information about your Murphy family.  May I ask what source tells you that Timothy Murphy was born in Cork?  I'm wondering if he was a convict, if he was incarcerated in Cork, and then transported to Australia.  

Your point about the land research is very interesting and I would encourage you to definitely look more closely at this particular holding.  You might consider making contact with the Valuation Office in Dublin to see if either your cousin, Anne can attend and go through the revision books for the area or that you can request copies of the pages for Poulacapple which will give you a timeline of how that property transferred from Michael Murphy in 1855 forward.  You are more than welcome to contact me at:  tulla@irelandxo.com if you wish as to how to go about doing this.  

I wonder if you should also send an email to Michael Talty at the Local Studies Centre.  He may be able to do some further research with what is held there on the area.  His email address is:  mitalty@clarecoco.ie Please feel free to mention my name.  

I will ask around about a local person in that area who may have further information for you.  Leave this with me, and check back in a few weeks.  

A very Happy Easter to you!

Jane 

Hi Jane,

Thank you for your reply and the hints for following up. I have done some more exploring and piecing together of the bits and pieces.

First: Timothy Murphy (the convict from Cork). He died in 1887 at age 54. His death certificate says he was from Cork, Co Cork and this info was provided by his son. Like you, I had also considered he may have just been brought to justice in Cork, but the info on the death cert if very persuasive. Also he was a 'boilermaker' and his father was a 'millwright' these are not the occupations found in remote rural Ireland of 1850s.I have put aside trying to connect him to our Poulacapple family.

Second: In the very vague oral history of my family, there is the suggestion that my Great Grandmother was from Cork, but all the records I have of her say Co Clare.

It seems unusual to me that Michael Murphy came to Poulacapple to take up over 300 acres from what appears to be out of the blue. So, I am thinking that the Murphy's possibly moved to Poulacapple from Cork. But that is pure conjecture. In 1829, there were 2 Murphy's who held less than an acre in different parts of the parish. I would wonder how they would have survived the famine years.

Third: I have eliminated that 'missing generation' I referred to earlier. Ancestry.com updated their DNA info a day ago, it now tells me that cousin Anne is a third cousin. This conveniently eliminates that missing generation and creates a direct link to Michael Murphy of Poulacapple in 1855.

Fourth: I believe I can confidently say: that my Great Grandmother: Bridget O'Brien nee Murphy was granddaughter to Michael Murphy of Poulacapple  (1855 Griffith Valuation) and her father was Michael Murphy (son of the Michael Murphy of 1855); that Honor Murphy who married Michael Spelman (of Bishops Quarter), was Bridget's sister; and Michael Murphy who married Lizzie Lysaght (circa 1873) was her brother.

Fifth: I believe I can confidently suggest that my 3rd cousin Anne's great grandfather Patrick Murphy who was the son of William Murphy, was also the grandson of Michael Murphy (1855 Griffith Valuation).

Sixth: This then suggests that Michael Murphy (1855 Griffith Valuation) had at least two sons: Michael and William. There are possible daughters: Margaret who married Terrence Liddy and Mary who married Pat Callanan but no linking of their names in the records to Poulacapple.  

Seventh: By 1906, Poulacapple was the residence of Michael Fitzgerald and his wife Kate nee O'Brien. So Michael Murphy and Lizzie nee Lysaght had left Poulacapple by 1906. Honor Murphy was still in the parish in 1876 (the last record I have of her), but given her husband was a farmer in Bishops Quarter, there is no record of her in Poulacapple, but she was a sponsor at baptisms in Ballyvaughan and Newtown. 

I assume that neither Honor Spelman nee Murphy nor Michael Murphy and Lizzie nee Lysaght emigrated. So, their descendants are likely still in the parish. I suspect there would be other descendants also that we have not been able to identify.

........................................................

I do hope that all of that makes sense to you. I am very excited to have been able to get this far. I would like to be able to corroborate the research but I suspect that might be challenging. So, yes I think that it would be good to check out the Revision Books for Poulacapple in the Valuation Office in Dublin. I will let Anne know about that possibility.

I will email Michael Talty at the Local Studies Centre, fingers crossed we can learn something new.

If there are any family descendants in the area that you might find, that would be just wonderful, fingers crossed that is possible, thank you for your efforts in advance.

I can't attach the file of the research I have done because it is an excel file. If you want the research for the Murphy's of Ballyvaughan, I'll need to send it to you at the library. Let me know, ok?

Beannachtaí na Cásca oraibh!

Barb 

Hi Barb:

Many thanks for the further clarifications.  I also think that you should consider looking at the South Galway area which may overlap some of the Ballyvaughan and Newtown areas.  I'm thinking of Kinvara, New Quay and Doorus.  It is certainly a possibility that some of the family may have married there or moved there.  

If you want to send me the excel file, please email it to me at:  tulla@irelandxo.com

Beannachtaí,

Jane