John and Johanna Ryan Tipperary

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Hi Posh,  The eldest child born 1890 what was their name?
Margot

Hello Margot,

The eldest child was a daughter Mary born in 1889 then a son John born 1890 then Catherine born in 1892 then Johanna and Josephine 1894 cant figure that out no record of them being twins Ellen 1896 then Margaret 1902. 

Posh

Posh and Margot,

 There are birth records for the children Posh mentioned above (no record for Josephine) with coordinating years of birth on RootsIreland (paid subscription). They were all born in Golden, Tipperary. Their father John was a laborer and was the informant for all of the christenings.

Also, on RootsIreland, there is a death record for John Ryan, laborer. He died in 1919 at the age of 70 in Sergeants Lot, Golden. His wife Johanna Ryan witnessed. I think on the 1901 census John said he was 50. Maybe your John?

Regards- Mary

Posh,

1911 census Hoops Lot, Golden, Tipperary. I think this is Margaret's family but where are Johanna, Ellen, and Margaret? Are they servants in another household or is this the wrong family?

Regards- Mary

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Posh,

I found the two daughters, Ellen (15) & Josephine (17) in the 1911 census. They are both working as servants in the town land of Ballinlina, Golden, Tipp. Ellen is in the William Walsh household, and Josephine in the Michael O'Connell household. The 1911 census for the Ryan family shows that Johanna had 6 children, and they are all still alive. So, I think that Johanna and Josephine are the same person....as you have only Johanna's 1894 birth record. Perhaps since her mother was also Johanna, she went by Josephine when older. I did not find Margaret (9) in the 1911 census, but she must be somewhere since her mother reported her as living, and she is your grandmother! The only marriage records I could find for couples with the same names are too early (1876 & 1878) to be your ancestors.

Regards,

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Posh,

The 1901 census shows your family, minus Margaret as she is not born yet, in Hoops Lot, Golden; and there is only a Johanna (7), no Josephine....plus the other four children.

Regards,

v

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Posh,

Per RootsIreland

Probably not, there was a John Ryan and Johanna Ryan married in Kilcommon, Tipperary in November 1889 about 20 miles from Golden. Maybe where Johanna was from. 

Kilcommon, Tipperary to Golden, Tipperary - Search (bing.com)

I think Mary was born in August 1889 so this might not be your John and Johanna. Remember Ryan is a very common name in Ireland. In 1901 there were almost 12,000 Ryans living in Tipperary. In some areas they had special nicknames for various Ryan clans to keep them easily identified.

Regards Mary

 Thank you everyone. 

So it appears my GG grandparents birth and marriage records are difficult to find.

Any reason for this?

Dee,

The Catholic registry for that parish only goes to 1881.

Golden, Cashel and Emly - Catholic Parish Registers at the NLI

You might want to look at the civil registry and see if you can find a record. It is free.

Welcome to Irish Genealogy - Irish Genealogy

Regards- Mary

Dee,

Other sources you might try.

Catholic records for Golden: Irish Ancestors (johngrenham.com)

I drilled through the Parish of Golden in the NRI site and found this one........2nd entry on the right hand page.   2nd September 1855 to Matt Ryan and Ann Lonegan. I can not make the place name out on the right  morteen or something.
f you go back to 1854 I didn't see a Johanna, go back to 1853 and check.  I looked for him in Griffiths Valuation but he may have have been with parents at that time as GV shows about 1852/54.
02503/02, Golden - Catholic Parish Registers at the NLI

Margot,

Good find. I know it is a tedious search. There was a Moanteen, Golden, Tipperary. In 1901, a Lonergan was living there.

Regards- Mary

Dee and Margot,

There is a death record for a Matthew Ryan of Moanteen, Golden. He died in 1897, age 65, widower, farmer. His daughter Mary Ryan was there.

4665267.pdf (irishgenealogy.ie)

Regards- Mary

1901 census Moanteen, Golden. Maybe John's sisters. Mary was identified as a farmer.

Mary

Mary and Everyone,

Thank you all so very much, it is a complex family history not just with the names.

I agree with the daughters being the same for some odd reason Johanna became Josephine after her birth.

I'm so pleased to have the possibility of records for my GG and his family. 

Kind regards Dee

You have done a very good job so far. Thank you so much for letting us know about their marriage history. Have a very good day!