Sarah Madole & Francis Cassidy

Ants,

The address where the couple lived was Killycolpy. That’s a townland in Co. Tyrone. (Parish of Arboe).

A townland is a uniquely Irish form of land measurement.  Until very recently, in rural Ireland, there were no street names or house numbers (still the case in a few areas). Your townland alone was sufficient to identify you or get a letter delivered.  Killycolpy is not far from Stewartstown. The modern Killycolpy Rd and Back Lower Rd run through the middle of it. Albany Presbyterian church is also in the middle of the townland.

https://www.placenamesni.org/resultdetails.php?entry=6124

Killycolpy is 746 acres of mainly agricultural land. I looked in Griffiths Valuation (1859) for Killycolpy but did not see any Cassidy households then. (Nor any Madole/McDowell).   There’s no way of saying precisely where in the townland the Cassidy house was located if the family don’t appear in Griffiths.

In the 1901 census there were 47 houses in Killycolpy and a total population of 189.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Killycolpy/Killycolpy/

There was a Francis Cassidy in Cluntoe (Richardson).  He was the only Francis Cassidy in the parish in Griffiths. He had plot 15 which was  a labourer’s house and about three quarters of an acre of land. That’s a mile or two north of Killycolpy on the Ardboe Rd. Could be a different family.

Adding to my previous message, here’s the baptism:

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632463#page/114/mode/1up

Sponsors were Hugh Lanagh (?) and Helen Brady also of Killacolpy (Killycolpy). Griffiths has just one Brady household in Killycolpy c 1858, headed by James (plot 11b a labourer’s cottage on Mathew Quin’s farm). That was on what is now the modern Killicolpy Rd just a few hundred yards north of Albany Presbyterian church. Still a farm today, judging by Google Earth, though the farm labourers’ cottages will be long gone.

Perhaps the Cassidy family lived nearby?  Can’t see Hugh Lanagh anywhere in the townland.

In case you don't have it, Francis & Sarah married in Arboe parish on 26.6.1841.

Other childrens baptisms in Arboe:

Samuel 3.4.1842  - Dromore

Margaret 2.6.1844 – Dromore 

John 7.1.1847  Dromore

Hi Elwyn

Wow that is so impresive! What a service thankyou for the quick reply, do u live in the area? we were going  to travel to Ireland  in 2020 but Covid came along will try next year and visit the area.

"Baby" Frances Cassidy is my Wife's GG. Grandfather, he came to New Zealand in 1877 on the vessal Waipa out of Plymouth aged 25 he was on his own, any connected family  out of NZ would be with the other three children I guess.

What is Dromore?

Thank you again for  wounderfull insite.

regards

Tony Baldwin & Christine Baldwin nee Cassidy

Christchurch

New Zealand

Hi Again Elwyn

With regards to the Francis Cassidy Family living in "Cluntoe" I would cpnsider this to be the family as there dosn't seem to be any conflicting other sources!,

can u please send the google map geo tag for the "Quin Farm".

Tony

Hi again

Sorry

Where did you get the information re Francis Cassidy in Cluntoe from?

Tony

Tony,

 I got the information about the families from Griffiths Valuation. Most of our pre 1901 censuses have been destroyed so we use valuation records instead. Griffiths is a snapshot of who lived where between 1848 and 1864 (depending on where in the country you lived).

https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=name…

It has a map section and you can use that to locate the properties, both on a contemporary map, a modern map and with a satellite view.

I don’t think the Francis Cassidy in Cluntoe (Richardson) is your family. When I was looking at the baptism records for Arboe I saw Francis of Cluntoe and his wife’s name was Ann McGee. They had a daughter Catherine born in Cluntoe on 11.12.1843.

Dromore is another townland. It’s adjacent to Killycolpy, so the family probably just moved house by a few hundred yards. (That was common with farm, labourers).  It’s on the modern Ballynafeagh Rd, again near Albany Presbyterian church. 

I noticed in Griffiths that there was a Hugh Sanna in Dromore.  That could be the Hugh Lanna who witnessed Francis baptism.  It’s an unusual name. He had a labourer’s cottage 25b in Dromore. (That was on the Ballynafeigh Rd near the junction with Carnan Rd.). There looks to be a monster farm there today. Cottages long gone as is often the case.

Regarding Francis’ 3 siblings, there may have been more. I just spotted those 3 on Ancestry when I was looking for the parents marriage. I didn’t spend too much time searching. I don’t know what became of the parents or the 3 siblings I found. Can’t see death certificates for them in that area. Death registration started in 1864 so if they died before that there will be no record. I looked for marriages for the 3 but couldn’t see any in that area that might fit. It’s possible they moved away from the area. Literally millions left Ireland in that era. Many went to Scotland and England and many further afield as your Francis did.  Can’t see any relevant tree son Ancestry and without a clue it’s hard to know where to start the search.

I live about 40 miles away in Co Antrim, near the top end of Lough Neagh.

Hi Elwyn

Thanku for your work on Cassidy, I take from your last post Frances and family may have lived in the Killycolfy and Dromore areas  some where, are there any other entrys in ajacent areas?

Sorry to keep asking for stuff, from our distance we have no knowledge of Irelands land system, the information u have proved from your sources I had no idea about.

regards Tony

Tony,

Ireland is divided up into a network of land units called townlands. They can vary in size from 1 acre (in the case of a tiny island perhaps) up to 5,000 acres (tops of mountains for example). Most are around 200 – 500 acres. Dromore and Killycolpy are 2 such townlands beside each other in Co. Tyrone.  Your ancestors lived in Dromore from at least 1842 to 1847, and by 1852 they had moved to Killycolpy.  We know that from the children’s baptism records.

It’s fairly obvious from the movement that Francis was a labourer and they moved all the time, to follow the available work. (In contrast farmers usually stayed put). They would have lived in a small single story house with a thatched roof (typically), and 2 or 3 rooms max. They will have rented from the local farmer. Rent could be paid in cash but was often paid by an agreed number of days work on the farm each year, after which the labourer was free to take other work that was available eg on another farm or perhaps a Government road building project. In the winter they often supplemented their income by a bit of home weaving (making linen or calico and similar products) on portable handlooms, such as are still used in the Outer Hebrides to make Harris Tweed.  Their tenancy was normally on terms described as “at will.” That meant that landlord and tenant could terminate the arrangement without notice. Whilst obviously lacking any security, it also meant the labourer was free to move if a better opportunity arose somewhere else. As a consequence, labourers often moved about all the time, and can therefore be hard to locate. An additional problem was that their houses were often of too low a value to be worth recording in the land valuation records such as Griffiths.  This all makes them quite hard to trace.

So I don’t know where in either townland the Cassidy homes were, but by possibly locating where the sponsors for their baptisms may have lived, suggests the Cassidys were not too far away.  In the case of the Quinn farm and the Sanna cottage, the two are only about a quarter of a mile apart, so I have a suspicion that that's the right general area, but I wouldn’t be able to narrow it down any more than that. 

Nowadays farmers don't normally need agricultural labourers. Their cottages have usually been swept away to create space for new outbuildings or sometimes just left to collapse. So I am fairly confident that wherever the Cassidy family did live in Dromore & Killycolpy will be long gone.  The best I can do is indicate a general area, which I have done by mentioning various roads in the 2 townlands. Note that those road names were only allocated in the 1950s or 1960s and did not exist in 1840 or 1850. Then the townland alone was all that was used to identify where you lived. Everyone knew where everyone else lived and so no further address was required or used. Here’s Dromore in the 1901 census. 24 houses and a population of 98 people.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Killycolpy/Dromore/

Nearly everyone in the townland was either a farmer or a farm labourer, save for a blacksmith, a creamery manager, a milliner and a rag gatherer.

I had another look at the Arboe baptisms on Ancestry and don’t see any other children for Francis & Sarah beyond the 4 identified so far. Most families then turned out 8 or more children over a typical 20 year period. That suggests to me that possibly one of the parents died after Francis jr’s birth in 1852, or that the family moved away from the area. At the moment, I have no idea where the family lived after 1852.

You have mentioned that Francis jr sailed for NZ in 1877 from Plymouth. Do you know where he was living at that time? Was he living in Ireland or had he perhaps moved to Scotland or England (as so many did)?

Hi Elwyn

Once again thankyou for your insite and the histoiral knowlegde we wouldnt have been able to guage all the forgoing information from so far away.

My only knowlege of Francis's travels is at present his Birth record from your end to his arrival in NZ he clearly spent some time doing something between his teenagae years and his arrival here,  the passenger list shows the boat came from Plymouth directly to NZ he may have worked in Ireland or the UK I havent done any work on that

Tony

Tony,

I am not familiar with NZ migration records but perhaps either his arrival or marriage records or some such might mention his last address in Britain or Ireland to help further research.

We don’t have any censuses in Ireland for 1861 and 1871, though Scotland and England do. So you can see that if there was an address in Britain we might be able to find more, but in Ireland without a townland, I am stuck. I can’t find his family in Ireland (or not with any certainty, and not in the Arboe parish area) and that’s why I wonder if they moved away post 1852.

Possibly DNA testing may be a way of matching with others who have additional information about where the family originate. Family Tree DNA reportedly has more people with Ulster roots than any other company. That obviously increases the chances of finding a match. You might want to try them or, if you have already tested, you can transfer your results to them for no fee.

The North of Ireland Family History Society is running an Ulster DNA project in conjunction with FTDNA and can offer testing kits at a reduced price.  http://www.nifhs.org (Go to DNA project on the website).

Hi again

Further to the above post Francis came here on an assisted passage paid by the NZ Govt the cost was  13 pounds11 shillings and 6 pence.

The ship struck light winds and was at sea for 86 days. 

Tony

Hi Again

His arrival record and the birth records of his son Joseph Cassidy both show Derry County as his birth place his marrage certificate dosn't show  any  birth details which is normal here,

I await his Death certifcate which is comming from our  NZ Archives but has been delayed due to a large protest camp in our capiatl right of side the Govt buildings which are shut at presnt.

Tony

Tony,

This appears to be new information about Francis jr. Are you saying that he married in Ireland and had a son Joseph? Did he marry Margaret Barkley? (See possible marriage below). Where and when was Joseph born? 

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1877/11140/8079747.pdf

If this is the right Francis he was living in Cullion, Co Tyrone in 1877 and his father Francis was deceased. (Cullion is a few miles west of Stewartstown).

But all the locations so far are in Tyrone not Co. Derry, so I am not sure we necessarily have the right family.  Who are you saying was born in Co Derry? Is it Francis or his son Joseph? 

Hi Elwyn

I have:

Irish Docs: Showing Birth (1852) to Frances and Sarah  Cassidy Derry,Tyrone,Arboe Ireland.

NZ Historical Documnets:

Frances arrrived in NZ 21st Nov 1877, Farm  Labourer from Derry  aged 25  (born 1852) 

Frances Cassidy (28)(born 1852) marrys, Anne Naylon(20)   6th April 1880 in Otago NZ  

Joseph Cassidy Born 7th August 1885 in Dunedin NZ to Frances (33) (born 1852) Derry County Ireland and Anne  Cassidy (26)  nee Naylon  

I think I have the right man back to his birth 

Hope this helps

Tony

Tony,

The problem as I see it is that the NZ records you have given now point to birth in Co Derry but the 1852 baptism you have been researching is for someone born in Co Tyrone. Why do you think the Tyrone man is your Francis? Is it just because the baptism matches his age in 1877? Are you relying on the fact that the Killycolpy Francis was baptised in “Arboe, Derry & Tyrone.” What that indicates is the parish and diocese. So it was in the parish of Arboe in the diocese of Derry & Tyrone. (A group of parishes forms a diocese (administered by a bishop). But the actual baptism was in Co. Tyrone not Co. Derry. 

Does his marriage certificate not give his parents names?

We really need his parents names confirmed to progress this.  There were dozens of Francis Casssidy births in Ireland in the 1800s.  We need to be sure we have the right one. (Looking at the 1901 census there were 13 Francis Cassidys in Tyrone and 9 in Derry. There would have been more in the 1850s). I can see a Francis Cassidy baptised 28.11.1852 in Kilrea, Co Derry to parents Mick & Mary. No doubt there are other possible candidates.

Hi

Ahh ok can i send u the documnts by private email or send them on the here?

Tony

Hi Again

The marrage record is a print out, i will apply for the full cerifcate it will take several days to come however i will send what I have in the medium bets suited to you.

Tony

Tony,

You can attach the documents here. (That way if others see the message they can contribute).

Hi Elwyn

See the attached I await Francis's death and full marriage cert

Tony

The birth certificate for Joseph in 1885 is pretty clear that Francis was born in Co Derry (Londonderry). I also see “Derry” mentioned again on the 1877 passenger list, albeit instead of Nationality but all the same it seems to point to that as his place of birth. So for the moment I would not be in a rush to assume the Killycolpy Francis Cassidy is your ancestor. He lived 30 miles away in another county (ie Tyrone) and his family seem to have been settled there judging by the baptism and marriage records.

Let’s see what the death  and full certificates say about Francis’s parents names. With them I can have another search of the Co Derry records.

Hi Elwyn

I  have applyed for a full marrage cerificate for Francis and a Death cerificate for 3 Francis Cassidy's that seem the most likly age at death wise if none of these are the one I will request the rest,

thanku for your help , I expect they will a fews days.

Tony

Hello Elwyn

Attached are Frances Cassidy's Death Cert and his first born child's birth Cert along with a blown up image from his death cert parents details section.

Whilst his stated age on the death cert at 42 puts his death at 1846 which is different from previously age estaminets at 1852 this is the right Francis Cassidy my end, as his wife is Annie Neylon.

Born:
County Derry Ireland

The blown up section shows to me:

John Cassidy ?
Winifred Cassidy?
Formerly Bradley?
Farmers.

Trust this helps your end

Tony

Tony,

That information is a great help. Francis was from Maghera, and his parents were John Cassidy & Winifred Bradley. So you can disregard the Killycolpy family. Wrong family altogether.

I have not been able to find Francis’s own baptism but I have found baptisms for 2 sisters, and evidence of a brother Hugh.  Sarah was baptised 21.8.1843 and Margaret 8.8.1850. Sarah does not have a townland (address) on her baptism but Margaret does. It was Fallylea.

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633060#page/68/mode/1up

From that I went to Griffiths Valuation and I found John Cassidy farming in Fallylea on plot 41 (14 acres). Next door was Peter Cassidy on plot 40, and they jointly shared plot 42 which was a small parcel of land. So clearly Peter and John were closely related. Brothers perhaps?

I found John Cassidy’s death in 1882 aged 76 (so born c 1806). He was a widower and the informant was his son Hugh. 

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1882/06406/4839876.pdf

I couldn’t find a death for Winifred, so suspect she died pre 1864 which is when death registration started in Ireland.

Peter Cassidy died in 1885 aged 74. Another widower. The informant was Bernard Cassidy, his father! At least that’s what it looks like. I’d be surprised if that was correct. (The Registrar probably meant to write son).

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1885/06302/4806496.pdf

Griffiths also lists a Michael, Peter & Charles Bradley farming on plot 52 in Fallylea. Again possible relations.

Plot 40 in Fallylea is on the modern Ranaghan Rd, just near the junction with Ballyknock Lane. It’s probably still a farm today though whether the original buildings are still standing isn’t clear from Google Earth. (They may have been replaced by modern houses). I know where Ranaghan Rd is and the property should be easy enough to locate today should you ever decide to visit. A mile or so west of Maghera.

1831 census has 2 Cassidy households in the townland. One headed by Hugh and the other by Denis. Presumably one of those was John’s father:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Loughinshollin/Killelagh/Fallalea/48/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Loughinsholin/Killelagh/Fallalea/66/

John Cassidy’s son Hugh married Mary Doherty in 1867. He was a widower.  Can’t immediately find his first marriage.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1867/11510/8233122.pdf

This looks to be that family in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Tullykeron/Fallowleagh/1531587/

Hugh died in 1903. Probate abstract: Probate of the Will of Hugh Cassidy late of Fallalea County Londonderry Farmer who died 23 February 1903 granted at Londonderry to Patrick Doherty and Bernard Cassidy Farmers. (The will itself is in PRONI. But not on-line).

If Hugh was born c 1830, then that points to John Cassidy and Winifred Bradley marrying around the late 1820s. Maghera RC marriage records don’t start till 1841, so you won’t find a record of it.

Hugh junior in 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Tullykeeran/Fallylea/612422/

Hugh jr had married Margaret McCloskey. Here’s their son Hugh Gerald’s birth:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

He died in 1947. Probate abstract:  Cassidy Hugh of Fallylea Maghera county Londonderry retired farmer died 2 June 1947 at Lower Main Street Maghera aforesaid Probate Londonderry 6 October to Patrick Cassidy Londonderry county council employee. Effects £56 15s.

Peter Cassidy had a son Hugh who married Isabella Convery in 1869:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1869/11437/8201076.pdf

There were 28 Cassidys in the townland in 1901, so some work required to sort them all out.

Hi

Thats intense so much information thank u.

Do u have the link to get me to Griffiths Valuation location?

tony

Hi Elwyn

I think I should start a new post named "John and Winifrid Cassidy of Fallylee" would this be ok? if so, I can set it up but I dont know how to paste your new infmation into it arte u able to do that from your end?

regards