Paterson, Singleton, Ferguson

Hi,

Thank you for your message.

Have you tried searching for Thomas and Elizabeth in church records? As they were married in Shankhill, it is likley that that is the parish which at least one of them belonged to.

Do you know what religion they belonged to? Most Catholic records are held locally. One website which may be helpful to you is the irishtimes. Here, they give an overview of what records are available in specific parishes. For Shankhill parish follow this link:

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showidrecords&CityCounty=Armagh&parish=Shankill&churchid=454

For Church of Ireland records check: http://ireland.anglican.org/about/42 and http://www.nationalarchives.ie/. The Anglican Record Project is has created an index to their records: http://ireland.anglican.org/cmsfiles/pdf/AboutUs/library/AngRecord/bunclodyunionindex.pdf

Did the couple emigrate? Generally more information was given at the port of arrival rather than that of departure. If they emigrated and you knew which city they arrived at, it may be a place to find more information.

You could also try searching for the families in the Irish land records pertaining to the 19th century. There are two:

The Tithe Applotment Books (1823-1838) found at http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp

and Griffith's Valuation (1848-1864) found at http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/  

Some other websites which may help you are:

The National Archives of Ireland http://www.nationalarchives.ie/genealogy1/genealogy-records/introduction/

The National Library of Ireland http://www.nli.ie/en/family-history-introduction.aspx

The National Archives UK ? genealogy search: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/

The Public Records Office of Northern Ireland http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/family_history.htm

Family Search: https://familysearch.org/  

I hope that this helps. Remember to post as much information as you can with regard to the people you are researching. The more information you post, the more likely it is that one of our volunteers will be able to advise or assist you. Also include information concerning which sources you may have already used so others may further your search.

Kind regards,

Genealogy Support

Thank you for this reply.  Would you believe I've only seen this reply today (29 Apr 2020) for the first time.

Thank you for this reply.  Would you believe I've only seen this reply today (29 Apr 2020) for the first time.  They migrated to Scotland but I've never found a source recording immigration details of people coming from Ireland.

Sheena,

There are no immigration records for travel between Ireland and Scotland. Travel from Armagh to Scotland was (and still is) a short domestic journey and no records were every kept for that type of travel. All you can rely on is when they first show in Scottish records. Most people went to Scotland to find work.

Thomas and Elizabeth’s marriage certificate is on-line free these days:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1858/09554/5463978.pdf

Both were weavers and married in the Churhc of Ireland. Both lived in Lurgan. Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church, so you may well find her baptism and that of any siblings in the church records. (Thomas’s may also be there too if it was his church). The Shankill records are held in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast and start in 1681. (Note that there is also a parish of Shankill in Belfast. You obviously want the one in Lurgan).

There is a death of a Thomas Patterson weaver in Lurgan Workhouse on 22.3.1878, aged 60. His wife was still alive. Don't know if it’s your family. (Ages in those days were a bit of a guesstimate). The workhouse admission records could say, if they survive. (They will be in PRONI if they do).

Not sure if related to yours.

I have a Mary Ellen Ferguson b May 12 1886 at Shankill.

1901 census=John Ferguson 48 carter, wife Margt 46, d Eliza Jane 24 linen weaver, s Thomas James 22 carter, d Mary Ellen 17 linen weaver, s Alfred 12 scholar at house 85 Conlig St, Court Ward, Antrim - all b Belfast, all read and write, all COI;

1913 Dec 24 Mary Ferguson m Wm Vennard at Manchester, Hartford, Conn (1932 Naturalization document)

1917 06 05 Mary Petterson m David Vennard at Manchester, Hartford Conn

The Vennard family are also from Northern Ireland - Armagh especially.  Many worked within the silk industry once at Manchester. I can't seem to find the document at this moment but I inferred from something likely some were specifically requested to come to help set up the silk industry for Cheney family at Manchester.

My Vennard ancestors from Armagh also went and settled in Scotland (Glasgow).

I hope you find what you are looking for.

Denise

I just realized the the David Vennard who marries Mary Patterson is known to me as Stewart David Vennard. I have lots of records putting them all together but doesn't matter if not related to yours. Here is 1: 1919 Jan 22 Declaration of Intention Stewart David Vennard 23 silk weaver 5'2" dark complexion, brown hair, brown eyes, birth mark on left cheek. Born at Ballinary 1895 Dec 16. Emigrated from Moville aboard the Columbia. Was resident of Portadown, currently resident of 120 Summer St, S Manchester, Connecticut. Married to Mary born at Belfast.

Patterson:

John PATTERSON b 1862 Shankill, w=Elizabeth Jane UNKNOWN MAIDEN NAME                          

Gen 2

1 Margaret Jane PATTERSON b 1883 Shankill                                                       

2 John PATTERSON b 1889 Shankill;                                                         

3 Eliza PATTERSON b 1891 Shankill;                                                         

4 Ellen PATTERSON b 1893 Shankill;                                                         

5 Mary Jane PATTERSON b 6.14.1894 Shankill, m Stewart David VENNARD 6.5.1917 Manchester, d 12.30.1990 Manchester;

6 Martha Ann PATTERSON b 1897 Shankill;                                                          

7 Thomas PATTERSON b 1899 Shankill;

Ferguson:

John FERGUSON b ~ 1853 Shankill, m Margaret UNKNOWN MAIDEN NAME                                   

Gen 2

1 Eliza Jane FERGUSON b ~ 1877 Shankill;                                                           

2 Thomas James FERGUSON b ~ 1880 Shankill;                                        

3 Mary Ellen FERGUSON b 5.12.1886 Shankill, m William John VENNARD 12.24.1913 Manchester, d 1966 Manchester;

4 Alfred FERGUSON ~ 1889 Shankill;

* Wm John Vennard and Stewart David Vennard are brothers

This is great information and please feel free to create Ancestor Profiles on any of the families under the XO Chronicles feature.  For ease of reference, the link is here:

https://irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/history-and-genealogy/ancestor-database

If you have any questions, please let me know. 

All the best,

Jane

This maybe outside this information, however if you dont ask, My grandfather Wlliam Bell Ferguson b 1870 d 1905, was the child of James Ferguson b abt 1847, died 12 jan 1906 at 14 Spencer Rd Londonderry, buried Eglinton burial ground, was married to Hannah (Ferguson ?) on 9 April 1861 Glendermott Presbyterian Church, I am looking for James birth, but also Hannah birth who I believe was born in Belfast. I would be thankful for any assistance you may be able to give.

Thanks Roger Ferguson

Here’s a link to the 1861 marriage between James Ferguson & Hannah Ferguson. As you’ll see it’s pretty well illegible.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1861/09613/5486526.pdf

James father may have been named Samuel and Hannah’s David but I wouldn’t bet my life savings on that. This version on irishgenealogy is just a copy. The original may hopefully be easier to read.  If you can read his townland, then that should enable us to narrow the search for the church where he was likely baptised. You can view the original certificate on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option:

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate.

This looks to be James in 1901. No sign of Hannah.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Waterside/Spencer_Road/1540697/

Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church so you can probably assume Hannah was Presbyterian too. You say she was born in Belfast.  You would need to have a good idea of where and when. There are about 50 Presbyterian churches in Belfast, and most of their records are not on-line. So you would need to go through them all in PRONI to try and find her baptism. Quite a bit of work. And not all records have survived. Some Presbyterian records in Belfast were lost in WW2 due to German bombing.

Hi Elwyn

Managed to get legible copy of there marriage certificate, at their time of marriage, residence for James was Ramoath and Hannah was Slaught, they were married in the First Prebyterian Church Glendermott.

James fathers name was indeed Samuel and Hannah was David

Thanks for your assistance

Roger Ferguson

Roger,

The Placenames NI site tells me Slaght is part of Gortnessy townland. Checking Griffiths Valuation for Gortnessy in 1858 lists 2 Ferguson households. One was headed by Daniel (plot 2a) and the other by William (plot 3a). Both were farms. Those properties today are on the moderns Whitehill Rd. You will see Slaght name don the Griffiths map at the point where plots 2 & 3 meet.

http://www.placenamesni.org/map.php?urlminx=249045&urlminy=415117&urlmaxx=250987&urlmaxy=417597

You say that Hannah may have been born in Belfast. At the time of her marriage she was apparently living in Gortnessy. So presumably she is connected to the 2 Ferguson farms there somehow.

I looked at PRONI’s guide to church records. Neither Clondermott 1st nor 2nd Presbyterian churches have any baptism records before 1855, so if that’s where both James & Hannah’s families were baptised, there are no records to find. So we might be struggling a bit to find lout much more about these 2 families.

Ramoath is evidently another local name, being a sub-section of a townland. I searched Griffiths for Samuel Ferguson in Clondermott parish. There was only 1. He lived in Gorticross and that turns out to be immediately beside Gortnessy. So I suspect James Ferguson married the girl next door. Or almost next door. Samuel had plot 1, a 60 acres farm, so he was well off by the standards of the time. I looked at the map of Gorticross on Griffiths and plot 1 today is on the Fincairn Rd. I don’t see anywhere named Ramoath but if you were to ask locally someone might know. Samuel’s farm is only about a quarter of a mile from Slaght, so I suspect that’s where James lived.

These 2 Ferguson families were farming in Gortnessy in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Lough_Enagh/Gortnessy/1527944/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Lough_Enagh/Gortnessy/1527948/

There were no Fergusons in Gorticross by 1901. The Valuation Revision records on the PRONI site show plot 1 in Gorticross remained in Samuel’s name till 1876 when he was replaced by Jack Cochrane. Possible Samuel Ferguson death that matches that change was registered in Londonderry in 1877, aged 83.

Possibly worth checking local graveyards. Farmers were often able to afford  a gravestone, so you might get some information from that source.

William & Daniel in Gortnessy in the 1831 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Tirkeeran/Glendermot/Gortnissy/51/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Tirkeeran/Glendermot/Gortnissy/55/

I didn’t see any Ferguson farm in Gorticross but there was this Samuel nearby in Fincairn. 7 males & 3 females:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Tirkeeran/…

Somehow I lost the reply I started, so apologies if an incomplete was posted.

Thank you for all your replies - there are some good hints and resources here.  I think I found my Singleton in Griffiths, so that's a good start.

The only Ferguson I have is Maria who married Thomas Paterson in Armagh 1828.  I don't have her parents names. They had a number of children born in Portadown: Honora 1832, Margaret 1833, Thomas 1836, Maria 1838, John 1840.

Thomas jnr married Elizabeth Singleton and is my ancestor.  Their first child James was born in Armagh in 1860, then they moved to Greenock in Scotland.  Elizabeth Singleton's parents are Thomas Singleton and Ann Blaikley.  There are two children, John Singleton Black 1832 in Lurgan, and Elizabeth Singleton 1839.  Both died in Greenock.  Ann's death notice indicates that she was widowed twice - John Black then Thomas Singleton.

Re Vennard's comments:  1899 is late for my Thomas Patersons, but interesting that Thomas jnr named his daughter Mary Ann (my great grandmother) so maybe there's a connection.  She married Daniel McLaren in Greenock, Scotland.

Regards all.

Sheena

Hi Elwyn

Thanks for that detail, so just to be sure no baptism records for Presbyterian before 1855 in that area.

Also if Samuel was 35 yrs old in 1831 (off census), his birth would have been around 1796, James was not born until around 1847 that would make Samuel in his 50's at time of birth, just wondering if I have the wrong family.

My certain is that William Bell Ferguson was born(my grandfather) 3 May 1870, his father was James Ferguson farmer Gortierof, mother was Anna (nee Ferguson off William Bell birth certificate) who I am assuming was Hannah.

Any advice please

Rgferg65,

The place that William Bell Ferguson was born was Gorticross (not Gortierof). I referred to it in my post of 4th May. So I think we have identified the right family.

Some siblings also born in Gorticross:

Mary Ann Ferguson 20.9.1864

James 24.4.1866

Robert John 20.11.1867

David 4.4.1872

There may have been others born between 1861 and 1863 but that was before the start of statutory registration. You would need to search the church baptism records for them. I agree that Hannah & Anna are likely the same lady. The names are interchangeable in Ireland. We have lots of names like that eg Ann/Agnes, Sally/Sarah, Jean/Jane, Peggy/Margaret and so on.

Vennard.  

Reviewing my notes about the Paterson/Singleton connection, I had explored a child called Elizabeth McIntyre Paterson, born the year after the moved to Scotland but was not with them in future censuses.  When they first arrived they boarded with a family called McIntyre, and it appears that little Elizabeth was raised by them.  She was later to marry a John Stewart.  One of the questions I raised in my notes was that Mrs McIntyre's first name is Mary Ann and she might well be Thomas Paterson's sister.  I haven't yet proved this, but it would fit in with your Mary Ann Paterson in Glasgow (which is only 30 miles from Greenock).  John McIntyre was born in Tyrone and there is a Thomas McIntyre boarding with him, also from Tyrone.  I suspect he is a brother.  Just another piece of the puzzle.

Thank you for your notes as every piece helps the puzzle. This is general information about my Vennard and where they were in Glasgow. I note the surname Ferguson on the 1875 VR.

I believe Thomas Wright Vennard was living with wife Mary Anne (Taggart) and family in Armagh through 1871 census as not found on very complete Scottish census).

1875 Valuation Roll  (VR114/441) Prop: Mrs Jane Uri or Anderson at 12 Royal Crescent, Crosshill; Occ: Thomas Vennard  at Crossmyloof for house with Feu Duties payable to Neale Thomson's ?? at yearly rent or value 5L10s.
Occupiers & Tenants : Archibald McGiloray, Janet Phillips, Margaret Algir, John Greenbanks, John Euphy, Charles Ferguson, Archibald Stewart, James Davies, William McKeufie, Thomas ?, Mrs Jane Kelly, Mrs Mary Dick, Mrs Jane McNeil, Thomas Vennard, Thomas Euphy (some spellings are probably incorrect)

1881 census Thomas Wright Vennard 52 boarder, missionary UP church at Northmavine, staying at Schoolhouse, Tangwick, Hillswick with John Robison, schoolmaster;
1881 census Mary Vennart 56 missionaries wife, s Thomas 23 grocer, s Francis 17 draper at 1 Wellroad Pl (Crossmyloof). * son Francis (Taggart Vennard) is bap'd 1863 Dec 7 at Methodist church, Thomas St, Portadown so I know family was at Portadown till then.
Thomas Wright (d 1901) and Mary Ann Vennard (d 1909) live out their days at Crossmyloof with Thomas sometimes listing as missionary but more often associated with Crossmyloof bakery.

There s Thomas (1881 census=23 yr grocer) is my ggftr. He m'd Jean Bryson Burbidge 1883 Aug 29 at Glasgow and they lived out their many years living at 47 Charles St and kept a dining room at 139 Springburn (across the street from the train station).