McLeavey and Agnew 1847

Hi,

How great that you are going to Ireland! Just wanted to drop a few suggestions. I am looking into a couple items for you, and will post more completely in a couple of days.

In the mean time, if you can attach the note from your grandmother to an email sending to countyantrim@irelandxo.com I'll see what other clues I can pick up that might be of help. Any other data you have on Marys? birth and married families, might also give clues.

I do not know where you are posting from, so do not know if you have access to the local records in California. Perhaps you could obtain Mary McLeavys' death record, which hopefully would possibly contain more data.

I see that Marys' gravesite and 4 of her children are showing at http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gsr&GSiman=1&GScid=1988298&GSfn=&GSln=Griffith It appears that the maiden name spelling is McLeavy rather than McLeavey. But this name might also be spelt Leavy in some records in Ireland. I also see that Marys' brother John is also in this cemetery. I also manage the memorials for several of my family members at Findagrave and have passed family data on when contacted, so perhaps the memorial manager for your families sites might have more data.

I also noticed one of Marys sons at findagrave site, also went by the last name of O'Hara. Do you know of any familial ties for Mary to that last name? Any other family lore?

On the area family lore gives for Marys birthplace as Loch:

The word lough is pronounced loch and comes from the Irish loch, meaning lake. Some family trees out on the internet give Lough as a birthplace. On the townlands list at PRONI there is a Townland named Lough in County Antrim, however there is also a Lough close to Crossmaglen where the mother was said to have died.

Was Marys? mothers middle name Agnew? I have seen many times a family last name carried as a middle name.

Hope this all helps and I look forward to hearing from you, Jeanette

Jeanette, 

WOW!  Thank you!!

I have done quite a bit of searching re Mary.....she used McLeavey when she married Edward Patrick Griffith in 1871 in Old St. Mary's in San Francisco.....but later wrote McLeavy.  I have a copy of their marriage certificate.  I had heard that many people have to say where they were baptised when getting married, but no such information was with it.

I DO have her death certificate!  No birthdate there - only the year (her note, as you will see lists Oct 1842 as her birth year - i did just email the note to countyantrim@irelandxo.com!).  Birthplace:  Ireland.

I have been to the cemetary too....but wow, I am impressed that you found those graves!  I have a cousin who has a lot of information and pictures about Mary's life here but nothing about her life in Ireland except what I posted online.

That piece about O'Hara is interesting...I will send that information around to my cousins and ask if they know anything about that.

In the family Bible it was written that her mother was named Margaret Agnew.  I may have forgotten to put that in the post.  Also, I sometimes forget that the Bible listed her as Mary Ann McLeavy.

Yes, regarding my use of the word "Loch".....it was written up in the family stories as "Lough"  - when I wrote it in the post, I wrote it phonetically!  I am VERY INTERESTED in the Lough townland you mention!!  I will see what I can find....but perhaps you can also send me to it?

The story I made up was that maybe she said "Lough Neagh, County Antrim" and it was heard as "Lough NEAR County Antrim"........or the lake near the town of Antrim.....The note she left (it's in her own handwriting) about Crossmaglen is the only thing that is clear.  Just in case it doesn't come through email I will write here what it says:

"Mary Born Oct 1842

Frank "  Aug 1844

Bridget " Dec 1846 (died)

Mother died January 6th, 1847, the Saturday morning after the fair of Crossmaglen, that takes place the first Friday of every month.

John McLeavy was born Saturday evening at 9 o'clock on June 21st 1834."

Her brother John McLeavy came in through New Orleans in 1856, naturalized there as well a few years later. (I have the info at home).  They say he and Frank fought in the Civil War on opposite sides and Frank was never heard from again (whether it is because of the political difference or death, not sure).  

I have researched John McLeavy all over the place thinking as a male his info might lead us back to Ireland.  I have his death certificate. I have his wife's death certificate.  I was not able to locate his naturalization papers though I tried on 5 occasions using different spellings.  I found a possible document of John and Frank in the Army (McLeavy spelled McLevy, but the ages are right).

I found a John and James McLeavy in Corcreeny, County Down in about the 1830s....researched John as possible parents to John and Mary, but their children's names are different....

Mary's brother, John McLeavy, eventually married and lived next door to Mary and Edward Patrick Griffith in Santa Cruz, also dying there.  They are both buried in the family plot as well.

Whew!  Hope I didn't overwhelm you!  I SO APPRECIATE your help!!  How kind!  

Who are you and what brings you to doing this???  I am also posted on County Mayo, where Mary's husband, Edward Patrick Griffith is posted, and I have been contacted by HIS BROTHER'S  descendant - we didn't know he had a brother!

Again thanks......my email catherine@catherinehaynes.com!

Catherine

Hi,

Found a little something about the fair/market in Crossmaglen.

http://www.cregganhistory.co.uk/timelinecrossmaglentown.htm

Lewis' Topographical Dictionary of Ireland 1837 has this to say about Crossmaglen -

Crossmaglen; a village in that part of Creggan which which is in the barony of Upper Fews, County of Armagh and province of Ulster, 8 miles (NW) from Dundalk, on the road to Newtownhamilton; containing 545 inhabitants. It comprises about 100 houses, of which several are large and well built, and has a penny post to Dundalk: the surrounding scenery is strikingly diversified. In the vacinity is a small lake, called Lough Maglen, or Magheralin, and there are numerous others in the surrounding district. The slate quarries here were formerly worked to some extent, but they are now in a declining state. A market for provisions is held on Friday; and there are fairs in the last Friday in every month for black cattle, horses, sheep and pigs. A constabulary police station has been established in the village; and a spacious and handsome R.C. chapel has been recently erected, which is the parochial chapel of a very extensive district, called Lower Creggan. A dispensary was built by subscription in 1830.

For a fuller view of the origins and development of the town see John Fee's article Crossmaglen before the Famine(4) which, despite the title, refers to events up to 1847. 4.'Creggan' Journal of the Creggan Local History Society, Vol. 1 No. 1, 1986 pp. 9 - 36. You might want to contact them- they should have extensive knowledge of what churches exist for these areas and who now hold the records.

A little different on what is on Marys written note, but still in line with what is said.

I must say WOW! These kids were survivors! What they went through is astounding.

http://www.maggieblanck.com/Mayopages/Famine.html

Another couple of items noticed for the 1847 time period.

1) Typhus made its rounds even killing a Dr. that treated people in Crossmaglen and the general area. He died after going to Crossmaglen to treat. Several influenzas also were creating many deaths. 1847 also had many deaths still attributable to the potatoe famine, although the famine was said to be over, lower yields leading into the next portion of famine also took its toll.

2) The Griffiths Valuation 1847-1864 only reveal 4 McLeavy names in all counties combined, while the spelling of McLeavey show none. This is not in keeping with the amount of BMD records that are available for the time period.  I am thinking that this time period was a very rough time for the McLeavy families.

3) On the ?story? you made up about Lough Neagh, key the blue arrow to listen to these 3 samples of the name. Turns out your ?story? isn?t a story, [Loch neah] is what is heard. http://www.forvo.com/word/lough_neagh

Now, a couple of questions:

1) Where did your grandmother Mary get her data from? She would have been 5 years old maybe 6 at the time of her mothers death. Too much specific detail is in the portion of ?the fair?. I am wondering if these items were passed down from the older brother. I cannot see a 5 or 6 year old remembering the details, however if another person kept repeating these dates while she was growing up, she might have retained enough to remember some detail. Keep your birth dates loose as you search in case there has been a mis-remembrance due to brother Johns young age at Marys time of death. 13-14 is young to keep a lot of details in their head when daily life is a struggle.

2) I noticed 8 years between John and Marys births. There could have been a couple of children between them that John might not have remembered.

3) Based on the date of their mothers death and the dates given for the brothers- their ages would have been John 13 or 14, Mary 5 or 6, Frank 3 or 4. As orphans, where were they placed? Did a relative take them in or were they relegated to the workhouse?

4) Based on the emigration date of 1856- John would have been 22 or so, while Mary would have been ABT 14 and Frank ABT 12.  Based on the early orphaning event- where did the money for passage come from? Was it one of the programs from a workhouse to ?ship? them off for possible opportunities to change fortunes?

Found this site, each portion is clickable and gives a great amount of information. http://www.workhouses.org.uk/map/ulster.shtml

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Castleblaney

5) Based on what you said on marriage details: She might not have been able to give exactly where she was born or christened because of how young they were when orphaned. Were you meaning Old St. Marys Cathedral Roman Catholic Church? Pretty strict record keeping done stateside for Catholic for the marriage time period, you have to prove Catholic to marry in the church or convert unless you want husband excommunicated. I have to admit my in-depth knowledge of religious practice within workhouses is lacking. Was everyone required to convert to one specific religion, or did they hold separate practices? Did Catholic orphans emigrate with any documents from Catholic Church, or did they just give the name of the workhouse? (If this was the scenario they faced) Orphan trains in U.S. had a sheet of paper attached to them pinned. Hmmmm? I see I have more education I?ll need to get, as I am really curious now. LOL! ]

I?m just a volunteer for what is a good cause. I call myself a ?positive enabler of life?, corny I know, but helping somebody sort it out, helps me to sort it for my searches. I have several lines that emig from Ireland and Scotland, to Canada, then to U.S. on my moms side and several on dads side either emig from Ireland or Scotland to the U.S. Both lines have emig from 1600?s through mid 1800?s. Plus my ?history/genealogy hobby? helps to chronicle and get digitized various records from a variety of places/people that might be lost forever to future generations, and I can?t let that happen. Too much has been lost for way too many.

Hope this helps, Jeanette

You probably ought to include McAleav(e)y in your search for births, deaths & marriages in Ireland as that is a common version here. (It reflects how the name would be pronounced too). Unfortunately there’s plenty of them to search through.

(The spelling varied all the time in the 1800s and 1900s, and the idea of a single “correct” spelling is really a 20th century phenomenon. Prior to that no-one in Ireland bothered, and the spelling usually reflected the whim of the priest or official recording the information).