Catherine Stokes : Short Biography

Comments

My great-great graandfather, Edward Stokes, was born in Tullylase.  In rapid succession, the Gortnagark property transfered from Marcus Senior, to Edward, Ben and then Marcus Junior.  I think Marcus Jr is your ancestor and that Mark, Ed and Ben were all brothers.  About the time of your Catherine went to Australia, one of Benjamin's children went there too, Mary McAuliffe nee Stokes.  Perhaps they went together.  Some of her children were born in NSW but they ended up in Queensland.  My family wound up in Canada and many others went to the USA.

I think all of us Tullylease Stokes' are connected somehow.  If you want to share information, email me at gerafitz1@aol.com

Gerard Fitzmaurice

 

 

 

 

 

Gerard Kerry Fitzmaurice

Saturday 5th September 2020 12:37AM

Hi My Father was Mark (marcus) Stokes would have been Catherine's Nephew as My Grandfather was her Brother his name was Marcus Stokes born in Tullylease 1853.  Hope all is well 
Mark Stokes

Monday 19th October 2020 09:32PM

Hello both of you, Gerard Fitzmaurice & Mark Stokes. Thanks so much for the information. It's great that you have identified some Mark (Marcus) Stokes for me.  I need to find out the birth dates for Mark Stokes Senior and Mark Stokes Junior, and also the death dates for both of them. I also haven't been able to find out marriage information for both of them. I also need to slot your people into the ancestors I know about.  I'm busy right now, but I need to go through my records again and try to fit your information in with mine.

Gerard, Thanks for the information on the brothers and property transfer.  I had seen information on the Tithe Applotment Books (1823-1837) for Gortnagurk & Poulavere, but didn't realise that the Gortnagurk property had been passed down. Thanks for the lead on Mary McAuliffe nee Stokes.  I can follow her up through the Death Certificates in Australia and also Marriages.  There are publicly available listings (Births, Deaths & Marriages) on the internet with basic information, but you need to "buy" a Death Certificate to get more information (how long in Australia, occupation of father etc.).

Mark, Your Grandfather and Catherine were brother & sister, so your grandfather must be one of Catherine's siblings who stayed in Ireland (and had your father there). If your grandfather was born in 1853, he was one of the younger children of Mark (Marcus) Stokes and Ellen Murphy.  I have Catherine born about 1834, and (below) Hannah born about 1842, and (below) Ellen born about 1844 (+/- a year) and Benjamin Patrick (below) also born about 1844 (+/- a year).  I'm not sure I can get the ages to work. I'm wondering if I've missed a generation somewhere, or if there is an "older" Catherine and a "younger" Catherine. Also, I wonder if you know all the children of the family i.e. your grandfather, Catherine, and the other ones I have found in Australia.

By the way, my partner Paul & I did visit beautiful Ireland for about 3 weeks last year and came to Tullylease on the evening of Friday 14 June 2019.  We had a drink in Stokes' Pub, and walked around the village, church & cemetery, but were a bit too shy to follow up making contact with people.  We did learn from where we stayed, in a cottage near Banteer, that there were Stokes "all over the place" in the area.

I was interested to find out what became of Catherine Stokes' parents.  The trail went blank for me, when I looked into her parents and their likely dates of birth and death. I couldn't find any death certificates for Catherine Stokes' parents and wondered if they moved from Tullylease to somewhere else, maybe Cork, so I was looking in the wrong places for their death certificates.  Also, the records didn't go back far enough for me to find out their dates of birth.  I don't think I found Marriage details for them either.

I was also interested in whether Catherine had any brothers or sisters who also made it to Australia.  I've had more luck here, since I have found some Death Certificates of people who seem to be her brothers and sisters who came to Australia and died here. There is also information from old on newspapers, like invitations to Funerals.  

I have since obtained the Marriage Certificate of Catherine Stokes (my great-great-grandmother) and William Francis Tarran (my great-great-grandfather, on my father's side). He was a Stonemason from London, England and arrived in Australia in 1857 on the "Hastings" ship.  He stayed in Queensland for 3 years (maybe a condition of his assisted passage) and then moved to Sydney, NSW.  He and Catherine Stokes (noted as a Nurse) married on 22 April 1867, about 10 years after they both arrived in Australia. Catherine's father was called a "Dealer" on the Marriage Certificate (which may be the same as Commission Agent).

Interestingly, Hannah Stokes is a witness to their marriage in Sydney (as is Martin (?) Leahey (?)). Hannah didn't seem to marry and her Death Certificate in Australia shows her parents as Mark Anthony Stokes and "Helen" Murphy (which could be Ellen Murphy). It seems likely that she was indeed Catherine's sister and followed her out to Australia.  She died aged 65 on 30 November 1907 and had been in Australia for 47 years. Hence she was born about 1842 (closeish to Catherine's birth year of 1834) and came to Australia in about 1860, so she arrived before the marriage of Catherine & William, which took place in 1867.  This birth date doesn't totally match the ages on the ship's documents (5 year difference), but it is well known that people put their ages up or down, depending on the ages required in colonial Australia!

Another sister who seems to have come to Australia was Ellen Stokes. Her Australian Death Certificate shows her parents as Mark Anthony Stokes (Commission Agent) and Ellen Murphy, the same as Catherine's parents.  Ellen died on 4 October 1884 at her brother-in-law's place at Narrabri NSW (outback NSW) (i.e. William Francis Tarran, Catherine's husband), and he registered her death. She was 40 years old at the time of her death, hence born about 1844. She was younger than Catherine and Hannah (above).  She had been in Australia 22 years, so must have come out about 1864, which was a bit later than her two older sisters. She died young (aged 40) of "pythisis", which may be what we call tuberculosis these days. I think Ellen worked in pubs that William Francis Tarran had, and there's a newspaper report of someone cheating her out of money by passing a commemmorative token as money for a drink, and pocketing the change in real money.  William Francis Tarran had various pubs in Sydney in the city area, and also down in what's known as "The Rocks", the original old area of Sydney, near the Harbour. He also had pubs in the country later, at Narrabri.  He and Catherine both died in Tamworth NSW which is also in the country. Incidentally, their son was really, really smart, went to an excellent boarding school in Sydney (when they lived in Narrabri), was in the top class of final year school (the university class), won prizes for Geometry & Algebra, and became a very well respected Veterinarian, specialising in race horses in Sydney.  My dad told me lots of stories about "the vet". 

There's another sibling of Catherine's out here too!  It seems that a brother, Benjamin Patrick Stokes, came out to Australia.  His Death Certificate shows that he died on 29 May 1914 at the age of 70. His parents were Mark Anthony Stokes, a Corn Merchant, but his mother is listed as unknown.  Maybe the familly history was lost.  Also, I wondered if Mark Anthony Stokes changed from being a "Commission Agent" (when he was father to Catherine) to a "Corn Merchant" (when he was father to Benjamin Patrick), and moved from Tullylease to Cork (and then died in Cork). Benjamin Patrick was born about 1844, hence close in age to Ellen (give or take a year, for either of them). He came out to Australia about 1864, which is about the same time as Ellen. I remember that there was a Funeral Announcement where all the siblings were identified (brother of, sister of etc.), and that's how I worked out that they were related, as well as the parents being identified on their Death Certificates.

However, I haven't really searched for, or found, any more siblings in Australia, other than Catherine, Hannah, Ellen and Benjamin Patrick Stokes.

I really would like to know a bit more about their parents, and why so many of the children took a chance on Australia!  Was it still the impact of the Irish Famine? Did they feel they could have better prospects in Australia.

Anyway, I will post again, when I have looked at the information you have provided, in relation to other information I have. 

Many, many thanks, Jane Tarran

Stokes of Tullylease

Tuesday 20th October 2020 09:19AM

Hi Mark Stokes and Jane Tarran.  So many names, dates and places it’s mind boggling.  But that’s the fun of research; piecing all the disparate information together and making sense of it all.

Firstly, I think Marcus is the Latin name for Mark and more formal as opposed to being a nickname.  Also Benjamin is the modern name for St. Beretchert the man who established the Tullylease in ancient times.  Up until a few years ago the village annually celebrated St. Ben’s day. 

I went to Ireland in 2016 but didn’t know of our Tullylease connection at the time.  The next time, I hope there will be a next time, I will be sure to visit the Stokes Pub and check out the neighbourhood.  Just down the road is where our ancestors used to live.

Mark and Jane, I wish I could just connect one name to my family tree.  I have traced the descendants of 3 Tullylease Stokes’ and put together a family tree of 2250 descendants.  I have also genetically connected all three families on Ancestry and ’23 and Me’.  These families are:

• Edward Stokes (1799-1875)

• Benjamin Stokes (1808 - 1879) b. / d. Tullulease.

• William Stokes (1802 – 1877) b. Tullylease, d. Barnagarrane, Limerick.  

I’m almost certain that Edward and Benjamin had a brother Mark.  If I had more information on their descendants, I think I may be able to make some genetic connections through Ancestry.  I think, given the lack of records from the early 1800s, that may be one way to prove a connection.

One other alternative may be to find a will for the original Marcus Stokes.  I think he possessed almost all of the townlands of Gortnagurk and Poulavere at one time and must have been fairly well off.  Ultimately, wouldn’t it be nice if someone out there had kept a record of our Stokes ancestors and passed it down to their descendants.  I wonder if we could get that lucky.

If you send me an email, I’ll gladly share my family tree and speculation on the relationship between all the Stokes’ from the early 1800s.  My email is gerafitz1@aol.com

Thanks Jane and Mark.

Gerard Fitzmaurice.

 

Gerard Kerry Fitzmaurice

Tuesday 20th October 2020 04:38PM

Thanks for your email Jane.  I sent you my family tree and specualtion on how the early 1800s Stokes are connected.  Maybe we can find a link.  :)

Gerard Kerry Fitzmaurice

Wednesday 21st October 2020 01:58PM

Hello again Mark & Gerard.  

I think that you, Mark, must have lots more information on the older "Stokes" ancestors for us descendants in Australia (Jane) and Gerard (Canada)!  

You don't mention where you are from, but I presume you are in Ireland and maybe still in the Tullylease area. I think that a lot of the information that overseas people are trying to find is information held in "family stories" back in Ireland.  

You say that your father was Mark (Marcus) Stokes, that is, he has the same name as you.  You also say that your grandfather was called Marcus Stokes and he was born in Tullylease in 1853.  You also say that he was a brother to Catherine Stokes, which means the "Catherine Stokes" you are talking about was born about the 1840s - 1850s - 1860s.  My "Catherine Stokes", the one who came to Australia, was born in 1834, according to her death certificate.  Maybe this is OK and my Catherine Stokes could be about 19 years younger than your grandfather.  I guess your grandfather did stay in Ireland.  Given that he was born in 1853, he probably lived longer than his sister Catherine, who died in Australia in 1912.

When I looked into the Church Baptism records for children of Mark Stokes and Ellen Murphy, in MILFORD parish (which covered Tullylease at the time), I could only find records up to about the late 1830s.  There are "missing records" for 1840-1843 and 1844-1858.  Hence the only children of Mark & Ellen that I found were Mary Stokes (1829), Catherine Stokes (1834), Johanna Stokes (Hannah) (1835) and Edmond Stokes (1838). However, Catherine did have a younger sister, Ellen, who came to Australia, and who was born in Ireland in 1844 (according to her death certificate).  So the baptisms of Ellen Stokes and your Grandfather could be in these missing records.  

Do you have a list of all of your Grandfather's sisters and brothers?  And do you know which ones stayed in Ireland and which ones travelled overseas to Australia?

That information would really help me fill in some missing pieces of the "Stokes in Australia", especially the ones related to Catherine.

Hope you are well and surviving the very strange year that is 2020.  Unfortunately for us, no trip to Ireland this year. The closest we can get is watching "The Great House Revival" series on TV.

Many thanks,

Jane Tarran   

 

 

 

Stokes of Tullylease

Thursday 5th November 2020 08:27AM

Hi Mark, Gerard and Jane,

Delighted to come across your conversation and chat about the Stokes Family of Tullylease.

I live in Ireland and my grandmother was Anne Stokes from Gortnagark, Tullylease.

I have started on the journey to gather info on the Stokes' Family.

You three, seem to have gathered so much information already- but as you have realised records are patchy and often non existent here in Ireland. 

As one of your posts said...There are 'lots' of Stokes in the area and trying to sort them out will be difficult and even more difficult when we're back in the early 1800's. 

It was only today that I found a record for Anthony Stokes under an RIC record and followed his emigration - ending with your posting on Ireland Reaching Out. 

 

When one of you visited Tullylease - and were 'too shy' to say hello. I'm sure Mark Stokes my mother's first cousin who  lives in Gortnagark would only have been delighted to meet you. 

Looking forward  to further chats and hopefully more clarity on our shared  Stokes ancestors 

 

Anne Savage

Anne Savage

Monday 1st March 2021 10:53PM

Hi Anne.  This is Gerard Fitzmaurice.  I live in Canada and visited Ireland in 1916.  At that time I didn’t know our Stokes ancestors came from the Tullylease area.  I visited Springfield Castle which is only 10 minutes away.   I could have walked to Tullylease.  Next time, if we can ever vacation again, I’ll be sure to visit Stokes pub as a minimum.

I have tried to put together what I have found about my ancestor Edward Stokes (1797 – 1875), as well as, William (1802 – 1877), Benjamin (1808 – 1879) and Mark Stokes (1807-1889). Ed moved to Bracebridge Canada, where I was born, but many of his children moved to North Dakota.   Some of Wm’s children stayed in Limerick but others moved to both the US and Canada.   Most of Ben’s children moved to the US (Chicago) but one son moved to Stockton-on-Tees, England.   Mark’s children wound up in Australia (NSW and Queensland)

It is unbelievable that those 4 men have at least 2255 descendants that I have traced so far.  I would be happy to share what I have done.  I’m sure you can add to my work.  If you are interested in what I have done to date, you can email me at gerafitz1@aol.com

Have a great day Anne.

Cousin Gerard.

Gerard Kerry Fitzmaurice

Tuesday 2nd March 2021 05:29PM

 

Hi Anne.  This is Jane Tarran.  I live in Australia and, like Gerard Fitzmaurice, visited Ireland recently.  I visited in June 2019 and even visited Tullylease.  The very friendly lady serving in Stokes Bar took us outside, up the hilly road a bit, and along a side road, and then pointed up to a hill in the distance to a house, where someone who was a "Stokes" lived.  I wonder if she was pointing out your mother's first cousin's house?  I had shown her my copy of Catherine Stokes' Death Certificate (1912,Tamworth, NSW, Australia); Mark Stokes was listed as Catherine's father on this certificate and Ellen Murphy as her mother.  Maybe the "Mark Stokes" suggested a connection to her.  However, there were a couple of houses up on the hill, in amongst the fields, and I wasn't quite sure which one she meant.  So we didn't follow up and visit the next day, unfortunately.

Gerard Fitzmaurice has done a terrific job of tracing the Stokes' ancestry, not only in Canada but also in Australia.  He has compiled a splendid ancestry document.  He found more of the Stokes who were children of Mark Stokes and Ellen Murphy than I did, when I first started looking!  He found 9 children, whereas I found only 4 I think, and he gave me many more leads to follow up in Australia.  Of the 9 chidren, we think that 6 emigrated to Australia, starting with my great-great grandmother, Catherine Stokes, who came to Australia in 1857 on the ship "Glen Isla".

Her older brother, Anthony Stokes, came to Australia in 1859 on the ship "Nimroud" as did her younger sister, Hannah Stokes, on the same ship. (Anthony Stokes was married at the time and his wife, Mary Anne Atkinson also travelled out on this ship with him.)  

Anne, when you wrote that you "found a record for Anthony Stokes under a RIC record and followed his emigration", where did he emigrate to?  Was it "my" Anthony Stokes who came to Australia? Or was it another Anthony Stokes who went somewhere else?

A little later, two more children arrived in Australia on the same ship - a younger brother, Benjamin Patrick Stokes, and a younger sister, Ellen Stokes, arrived in 1861, on the ship "Sovereign of the Seas".  An even younger brother, John M. Stokes, arrived in Australia after that (but I have no details of the ship or date).

We think that the other 3 children of Mark Anthony Stokes and Ellen Murphy remained in Ireland.  They were Mary Stokes (born about 1829; the oldest child), Johanna Stokes (born about 1835), and Edmond Stokes (born about 1838).  Maybe these all have descendants in Ireland.  Maybe you, Anne, know more about these ones and their descendants.   

In any case, Anne, good luck with your "ancestor hunting".  Being in Ireland, you must be able to get some "family stories" that have been passed down from generation to generation.  In countries like Australia, we tend to be limited to printed documents and information available from old newspapers, which have been digitised and are searchable.  I would be really interested if any of the people you talk to know anything about the Stokes who made the brave decision to travel all the way out to Australia in the mid-1800s.

Kind Regards,

Jane Tarran

Stokes of Tullylease

Monday 8th March 2021 08:20AM

Thanks for the compliment Jane and thanks again for all the informtion you provided. 

I was just reviewing our previous posts and noted that I said I visited Ireland in 1916.  Sometimes I think I'm over 100 years old but I meant 2016.  If any Stokes descendants are interested in what I have done so far, I'm always happy to share.  The more we share, the more we learn.  My email is gerafitz1@aol.com

A little early yet, but Happy St. Patrick's Day.

Gerard Kerry Fitzmaurice

 

Gerard Kerry Fitzmaurice

Monday 8th March 2021 02:26PM

Hi Jane and Gerard, (& Mark if you read this)

Thank You both for your posts.

I was delighted to have stumbled upon posts on this website which has opened a window into the lives of so many of our shared ancestors that were lost in time here in Ireland.

Sad to say but there is no oral memory /tradition in the Stokes family of emigration-  Why- that debate is  possibly for another day over a pint in Stokes' bar !! 

 

In the meantime, Jane my email address is annesavclash2@gmail.com and I'll respond to you using that please.

Would it suit you to set us three and Mark if you read this in an email group ?  

I'm open to suggestions .

Jane - the Anthony you speak of, brother of Catherine- I hope he is the same Anthony ...don't complicate my life with another !!

 

Gerard- good to read you were  not a 100++ year old!!

 

Thanks & Happy St Patrick's Day

 

Anne

Anne Savage

Monday 8th March 2021 04:00PM

Hi my name is Josephine Mc Kenna, I recently joined a geneology site on facebook. My back ground is I am first genration irish on my dads side.  He is from rural cavan is the 8th of nine children the only one to come to the Us marry and have a family i have been to ireland sveral times have stayed on the land of my gggrandfather and slept in the room my father was born in. i have very stong bonds to the mckenna's. On my last visit they asked about my moms irish family. My mom frances Cronin was born in chicago on 1/1/ !929 married my dad 6/13/1959 in chicago.  Mom is second generation to be born on Chicago her parents were Jospehine nee Barry Cronin and Mark D Croinin.  Mark was a chicago Firefighter after serving in WWI he was killed in the line of duty on Sept 8, 1928 while my grandmother was pregnant with my mom.  Mom had four older siblings Daniel T, Barry M and Celine.  Celine died 12/31/1928 of RSV.  Mark Croinn was the oldest of four children sister lillian married Ernest Dunne never had children John and Daniel never married both served in WWi John was gassed and had a severe case of ptsd Dan was also a firefighter and died of a heart attack while at work on a fire rescue boat. That said my mom never had any first cousins,  I am thererfore very lucky that my gradmother Josephine Barry Cronin was very interested in keeping the family history for the rest of us.  She was the one people came over too visited  stayed with etc her sister in law Lillian as not a personable person.  Grandma Cronin sponsored many  and through ocntatcts set them up with jobs etc. My Grandfather Marks Cronins parents were Daniel Cronin and Mary Sheehan they were married in chicago about 1890.  Mary died 1n 1904 leaving dan to raise four by himself he had alot of help by the rotating Sheehan sisters from ireland. in the 1901 census dan and mary lived next door to Ben Cronin and what i could make out wife annie children were mary, benjamin, edward, and william. Cleaning up my parents papers after my mom died I found documents and a family tree of the Sotkes family not sure why i never saw it before as I had asked for information when i was working on my masters i did a graduate level family soc project on my own family tree. My siblings and I were  always told that captain Ben Stokes was given a piece of land in county cork on or near St Benjamins well from Cromwell as payment for a dirty deed. I do have some memories of some older Stoke relatives visiting Grandma Cronin. A father Edward Stokes was a regular and there were. some  Stoke  cousins my brothers went to school with.  I came across a family trre and a transcription of a stoke reunion held here in chicago about 1970 I learned Mary Stokes Married Dennis Cronin in Ireland they would be Daniel Cronins parents, reading through your posts here it may be catherines older sister. Daniel was born about 1861and died 1935. I also learned that there were three cronin brothers Dan Ben and Dennis all emigrated to chicago at the time of Mary's death woman were not allowed to own property so Dennis who had not married returned to ireland to settle the estate his sister and her husband were living and working the land and taking care of the mom so Dennis settled the estate left the homeland to his sister name ? and her husband ? Shine and bought himself some land married and settled. I do not have the papers in front of me I do recall an original address in tullyleas and poulevare?  We have never been able to substaniate the claim of Captin Ben Stokes or tie ut to cromwell.  I aslo learned that mary stokes and Dennis in addition to three sons had seven daughters I do recall a fannie mae Mc mahon on the stokes side visiting.  Would love to know more about Dan Cronins siblings and Mary stokes siblings.  I took my kids to ireland in 2010 with two of my brothers and sister inlaw of course we started in cavan stayed a few days and drove a van down the east coast stopped in cashel and made our way to cobh and back up the west coast i mentioned to my brother that we shoudl stop in tullylease but he said it did not fit in his schedule was also looking for st it's well in limerick My moms middle name is Ita she was apparently named by her two grandfathers Daniel Cronin and Michael Barry in the waiting room as Grandpa mark and her Sister Celine had recently died and supposedly Mark had a strong devotion to St francis and Celine was named after on of the little flowers of St Francis. St Ita is also known as St. Bridget of Killeedy. Ah   Next time my kids love it keep going back have made pen pals and social media friends with their mckenna cousins.

 

 

 

 

jojo

Thursday 30th September 2021 02:43AM

Hi Josephine.  I have almost all of those names on my Stokes family tree; even you - Josephine McKenna, b. Chicago, Feb 16, 1961, home Blue Island Illinois.  Your mother may not have had any 1st cousins but I have documented 2,800 Stokes cousins.  So we are not short on relatives.  Everything you said seems to tie into the family tree and is accurate.  

I have heard the Cromwell story before and it is likely substantially true.  Stokes seems more like an English name and I suspect dirty deeds were simply fighting Catholics including the old Norman families of Fitzgerald's, Fitzgibbon's and Fitzmaurice's.  So the Stokes must have started out Church of England to have been granted lands by Cromwell.  However, our Stokes were Catholic and must have converted.  By doing so, they would become land holders as opposed to owners.  But eventually, land holders became owners again.  If that's not too confusing.

I think the Tullylease Stokes' were a junior branch because the Stokes' of Kerry were big landowners and remained Church of England.  So my Stokes ancestors were trying to kill my Fitzmaurice ancestors.  lol   The Fitzmaurice Barons of Kerry eventually converted to Anglican and got all their lands back.  The Earl of Desmond Fitzgerald's were the big losers in Limerick, Cork and Kerry.  I think if we ever researched it, we could prove the story of Cromwell giving lands to the Stokes'.

I could go on and on but, if you are interested in my family tree, email me at gerafitz1@aol.com

The Chicago descendants of Patrick Cronin and Mary Stokes were a big family.  I'm sure you can add to what I have.  I just noticed you are number B-1-1-1-1-1 on my family tree which means your direct ancestors were the oldest child of each family for 5 generations.   Interesting.

Thanks for answering my post Josephine and I hope to hear from you soon.

Cousin Gerard.

 

 

 

 

  

Gerard Kerry Fitzmaurice

Thursday 30th September 2021 05:32AM