Roscrea World War 1 & World War 2 Veterans

1st January 1966

Roscrea (Tipperary)

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As VE Day approaches, I thought that this image might be appropriate. It's a photograph of veterans from both world wars that was taken, I believe in 1966. That year would have marked the 50th anniversary of WW1, and the 21st anniversary of of WW2. There are many named here, but I would love to find out those unnamed! I got the picture when we were planning a commemoration of the Roscrea Fallen of WW1 in 2014. The names were supplied from many different sources including family members. If any of these men are related to you, we'd love to hear from you and add their story. . If you look closely at the picture, you will notice that they’re wearing poppies – suggesting that the photo was taken sometime around Remembrance Day in November. The location, following a double-checking is at the doorway of St. Cronan's church of Ireland, Roscrea. Many of the men in the photograph are wearing poppies, so it would suggest it took place around Remembrance Day in Novemeber -giving a reason for all the heavy coats! The local Church of Ireland host a Remembrance Day memorial service every year. There is a slight difference of opinion as to the actual date suggested here - one descendant of those in the picture swears his father is wearing a coat which he bought much later than 1966!

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I am most curious about the two Moloney gentlemen, Paddy and John. My Grandfather Martin Maloney was from Roscrea.

David Murtaugh

Friday 8th May 2020 08:26PM

While I do not have info' regarding the gentlemen in the photo, the place name of Roscrea does have meaning.According to family oral history, my maternal gr grandmother was born in Tipperary and the gravestone of one of her sisters shows her as 'native of Roscrea, Ireland'. These 2 along with other siblings emigrated from Ireland to Canada with their mother CATHERINE (DAVIS) ENGLAND. Does anyone have info' re: one of these or other siblings - Joseph, James, Rudolphus, Elizabeth, Frances and Mary Jane. Anna Dorothy, married to Wm. Neal, who emigrated to the USA may be another sibling, dau. of Catherine Davis and Joseph England(sr.). Thank you Donna

owensoundon

Friday 8th May 2020 09:44PM

Oversight re: years of the above England family. Catherine (Davis) England - 1800 - 1890. Ages of her children varied somewhat in the records.

Joseph England b 14 Mar 1828, Tipperary, d 23 Nov 1916, Tuscola C., Mich., USA. Anna Dorothy England b Oct 1828, Tipperary, d May 1909, Tecumseth Twp., Simcoe Co. On. Canada - the same area where Catherine England and her children had first settled in Canada abt 1848. James England b abt 1829, d Sept 1907 in Huron Co. On. Canada where the family had moved from Tecumseth. Phoebe England b May1831; d Apr 1915, Huron Co.; Rudolphus England, b 1834; d Dec 1915, Huron Co.,Elizabeth, b abt 1836, d Mar 1873; Mary Jane b abt 1840, d Jan 1911 in Huron Co.

Any info', especially relevant to Roscrea or County Tipperay would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Donna

owensoundon

Friday 8th May 2020 11:18PM

Maybe someone could recognize the medals on the Unknowns, and line the ranks up with a roster?

Galmoy1822

Saturday 9th May 2020 04:20AM

Hi Owensoundon'

What information have you on the Davis & England. My wife gmother was Davis ftom outside Roscrea'

Are you living in Canada ie Owensound.

Ballypierce

Saturday 9th May 2020 08:20PM

Thank you for responding,

Owen Sound, ON, Canada

I have info' re: the children of Joseph ENGLAND and Catherine DAVIS and considerable abt most of their descendents, esp their daughters Phoebe, my direct ancestor and Frances who was married to Stewart WALKER whose mother was Martha (DAVIS?) DANN, reported in the family to have been born in Queens Co., Ire.(adjacent to Tipperary). Stewart WALKER is not my ancestor. His sister JANE WALKER, married to David GRAHAM are my gr grandparents.Have a name Mark Davis with a bit of info. If you have interest, I am interested in exchanging additional info' by direct e mail Donna

owensoundon

Saturday 9th May 2020 09:29PM

Hi Donna

Thanks for getting back to me .My email is isaaclangfordde@gmail,com

Isaac at Ballypierce

Ballypierce

Monday 11th May 2020 10:22AM

Welcome to IrelanXO. I'm a local volunteer with the organisation. I have the picture that has bee posted here. I'm delighted you have sought to get in touch. I have some information on Davis and England families (burials etc.) but wouldn't be too sure yet if they're connected to your ancestors. I have to check out the information you've posted here and I'll check the records I have for matches and get back to you here as soon as possible. Does either of you have extra information, however small - anecdotal, townland etc., that would help locate them better?

Dick

Monday 11th May 2020 03:37PM

David Murtaugh,

Welcome to IrelandXO and Roscrea! Can you give me an approximate year your Grandfather Martin Maloney was born? I'll check the records and get back to you. There are many Moloney families here and some spell their name Maloney like what you've written here. Any details of your grandfather would be most appreciated as it would help differenciate which family he came from.

Dick

Monday 11th May 2020 03:44PM

Owensoundon & Ballypierce, A quick search of baptisms for Catherine Davis didn't reveal anythig here so far - Official records started here in Ireland in 1864. There are Catholic Baptisms that date from older period but are not digitised and must be researched line by line. I have also tried to find Catherine Davis b1800. This is the link to the online records for Roscrea https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0805 which have baptisms and marriages from 1810. If you find a record, the page can be downloaded free. Another site that is free to search and download from is https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ but early records are not easily come by on them and births after 1920 (GDPR 100-year rule) are not available free. Hope this is of some help. I found this record on ancestry - might be connected https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/?name=Catherine_Davis&event=_roscrea-tipperary-ireland_10039796&birth=1800&birth_x=10-0-0&spouse=_England

Dick

Monday 11th May 2020 05:36PM

Dick

Re: DAVIS/ENGLAND fAMILIES - I do not have any specific location, eg. townland. Records of Irish emigrants to Canada tend to have name of closest town/village or county, perhaps because that was the word given to the person recording or that was what the person recording was able to spell, at least phonetically.

I have found 2 Canadian census records of Catherine England, in which she is recorded as Christiana, one in same household as her son Rudolphus, the other in same household as Rudolphus and his siblings; both of these with her birth year of 1813 rather than 1800.

Names and birth years of children of Catherine DAVIS & Joseph ENGLAND: JOSEPH, 14 Mar 1828; ANNA DOROTHY, 1828; JAMES, abt 1829; PHOEBE, 31 May 1831,(my gr grandmother); RUDOLPHUS, various records show years 1834-1838; ELIZABETH, abt 1836, MARY JANE, abt 1840. Various records - census, marriage & death indicate all having been born in Ire, and some indicate Co. Tipperary.

NOTE:

1)family oral history is that FRANCES who married STEWART WALKER in Simcoe Co., Canada, was a sister of Phoebe. Frances, born 1827(&) - her gravestone marker shows' native of Roscrea, Ire.' 2) the ENGLAND family listed above settled first in Tecumseth Twp., Simcoe Co. 3) Anna England married a William NEIL/NEAL and emigrated to USA. She moved from USA, apparently after the death of her husband, to Tecumseth Twp., Simcoe Co. where one of her sons was enumerated in the household of a brother of Stewart Walker(above). 3) Family anecdotal info' is that Stewart Walker's mother (Martha DANN - her mother Jane DAVIS)) emigrated from Ireland with her cousin. Research supports that the cousin was Hannah Saunders, d/o Thomas Saunders & Elizabeth DAVIS of 'Queens' Co.

Hope this helps, Donna

owensoundon

Monday 11th May 2020 06:26PM

Donna, Great to have extra info! Could I ask just one piece of extra information - it's suggested by the names - could you tell what religion they were? I have quite a few Davis burials here and some are Church of Ireland, others Catholics while another group are Quakers. To be honest, the Quaker records are the oldest ones, but they may not be connected at all. I'll have a look for Catherine b1813 and see what I can find. I'm assuming she got married in Ireland before departing, so I'll search for one here.

Dick

Monday 11th May 2020 07:17PM

Dick

Religion - protestant. My family info' is that the SAUNDERS family were Quakers, assume the DAVIS family may have been. There were Quakers who had immigrated to Canada from the USA and settled in King Twp., York County, which was adjacent to Tecumseth Twp in Simcoe Co. where the WALKERS and the Englands located Donna

owensoundon

Monday 11th May 2020 07:39PM

Donna,

Many thanks for that info. There's a Quaker burial ground not far from Roscrea - Roscrea would be the likley name to be given to anyone looking for where they came from. There are some Davis burials in it. I'll make out a list of the names and dates, post them here asap and you can see if any of them could be related to you. Off the top of my head, some of the family Christian names are similar to yours, but I don't have dates in my head! Any idea as to occupations? I don't think there's any on the headstones, but it would be interesting to know.

Dick

Tuesday 12th May 2020 03:45PM

David Murtaugh <dmurtaugh25@gmail.com>

Mon, May 11, 11:25 AM (21 hours ago)

to Ireland

Thank you Dick. Here is what I have for Martin J Maloney (my maternal grandfather): Born 11 Nov. 1872 (per the funeral register) in Ballymullen, Roscrea. It seems his parents had a prior baby named Martin but it died as an infant a couple of years prior to my G.father.
Martin's parents are: Martin M. Maloney (B: 1833, D:13 Mar. 1898) Married Cath. Bannan 30 Jun 1863 in Clonmore.

My G.father Martin J. attempted to emmigrate aboard the "Teutonic" in 1900 with his mother and sister (Mary) but they were scratched from the passenger list and later went aboard the "Majestic" arriving in NYC 19 Sep. 1900. His mother indicated that they were from Rathdowney.

Martin's siblings were Mary, (sometimes last name was spelled Mallowney).

James (sometimes last name is spelled Muldowney).

Joseph

Lucy

The Griffith's list of land survey shows a Martin Maloney occupying land from Lessor John Delany in Townland: Townparks and also from lessor Patrick Bergin in Townparks.

Any other info I have of him would be after he arrived in USA.

Thank you for your offer to search records.

David Murtaugh

Tuesday 12th May 2020 03:49PM

Donna,

These are the Quaker/Church of Ireland (Protestant) Davis Burials. I fear they may be a generation or more later than Catherine. I did find a Catholic Baptism for a Catherine Davis in the Church Records. The date was 19th July 1814 - I have a copy downloaded - if I had your email I could send it to you - I can't add images here. The parents' names were James Davis and Mary Whelan. I hope they may be of some use to you.

Corbally Church of Ireland Grounds (Just Outside Roscrea by 2 miles)

Townland Map and Location : https://www.townlands.ie/tipperary/corbally/

Erected by Elizabeth Davis of Newtown in loving memory of her husband Richard Davis who died Aug 19th 1913 aged 74 years. (Suggests born about 1838/9)

Also her Daughter Charlotte Mary Harrington Davis Died Oct 29th 1914 aged 30 years

The above Elizabeth Davis Died Oct 5th 1926 aged 81 years (Suggests born about 1835/6)

Not gone from memory Not gone from love but gone to the Fathers Home above

In Loving Memory of James Davis Died 8th April 1962 aged 82 years. (Suggests born about 1880)

His wife Priscilla Died 10t of January 1973 aged 88 yrs (Suggests born about 1885) and their son

Joseph Died 4th of December 1961 aged 62 yrs.

Safe in the arms of Jesus.

In Loving Memory of my father George Davis, Cappalahan who died 8th Jan 1936 aged 76 years. (Suggests born about 1859/60)

My mother Elizabeth died 7th March 1937 aged 71 years. (Suggests born about 1865/6)

My brothers Richard died 10th Aug 1937 aged 30 years

James Died 25th Oct 1964 aged 68 Years.

My Sisters Susan Fegan died 21st July 1950 aged 57 years and

Mary Jane Evans Died 2nd April 1971 aged 76 years

Emily Davis died 12th Aug 1922 aged 88 years.

Erected by Emily Davis

Ballykelly Quakers’ Graveyard (again just outside the town - about 4 miles)

Townland Map and Location: https://www.townlands.ie/tipperary/ikerrin/bourney/timoney/ballykelly/

James Davis of Newtown who died Feb 3 1897 aged 54 years, (Suggests born about 1842/3)

Also his sons John Davis died Feb 24th 1912,

Richard Davis died Dec 21 1913,

Robert Davis died Jan 23 1914.

Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord.

Erected by his son James Davis

In loving memory of my Father & Mother

James Davis, Corbally, died 22nd December 1938 aged 87 years. (Suggests born about 1850/1)

Also his wife Helena died 9th March 1929 aged 74 years. (Suggests born about 1854/5)

There is a home a glorious home a heavenly mansion fair and those we loved so fondly here will bid us welcome there we long to leave these fading scenes that glide us quickly by and join the shining host above where joy can never die.

Erected by their daughter Alicea

Erected by The Davis Family in memory of their father Richard Davis, The Hill Cappalahan died 13th Jan 1945

also their mother Letita Davis died 2nd Jan 1970

and their brothers William and Victor died young also

James (Jim) died 8th March 1991 and

William George died 17th April 2003.

For ever with the Lord

Dick

Tuesday 12th May 2020 06:53PM

Many thanks for the info'. So much relevant to time frame later than the emigration of the Catherine(DAVIS) ENGLAND and her children in 1847/48. Canadian records are consistent in her childrens' father's name as JOSEPH ENGLAND, but no record indicates that he came toCanada. Died before or en route?

Re:occupation - Catherine's sons acquired land and farmed in Canada. Eldest son Joseph ENGLAND, farmer, moved to USA in 1874 where he was again enumerated as a farmer in census.

Donna

owensoundon

Wednesday 13th May 2020 03:04PM

David,

I've done some preliminary research and so far, I've located Martin Maloney & Catherine Banan Marriage record in Clonmore https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000635301_075

Also what I believe to be Martin Snr's Birth in 1836 https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000634665_006. The parish is Bournea, just next to Roscrea - about 5 miles from town. All searches for variants of Moloney.Malowney/Muldowney have so far proved fruitless on Roots Ireland and Ancestry. I also found a Death Certificate for 1898 https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1898/05838/4653653.pdf which could be Martin Snr's. You probably have these already. The records here are free to download. Hope they're of some help.

Dick

Thursday 14th May 2020 06:59PM

Thank you Dick (Roscrea1 Tipperary) and well done!

I do believe you discovered Martin Sr's records. The marriage record is interesting to me in particular because it shows a witness: Patt Murphy, who I believe is related. Years later a Chris Murphy attended the funeral of Martin J. Maloney (son of Sr.).

The death record is also extra interesting to me because it indicates a daughter Hannah was present at death. If this is my Martin Maloney Sr. then Hannah is a new discovery.

Thank you for your effort. Much appreciated.

David

David Murtaugh

Thursday 14th May 2020 09:19PM

The info' received re: the England and Davis families is much appreciated. As I indicated in my initial comment, my interest not in the men in the photo but in the place of Roscrea. The info' re: the Maloney family is not of interest to me - I do not need any further info' abt them but rejoice for the person gaining info abt his family. Thank you. Donna

owensoundon

Thursday 14th May 2020 09:34PM

David,

The death certificate is speculative in that it agrees with the dates (roughly) and should be taken as such. You would have to reverse dig to find the birth of Hannah, which would give you the mother's name and then you would know for sure if the Martin in question is your relative. I'm always "scared" when a new clue may be found as it often leads down a side alley - not even on your street! Let me know how you get on in locating Hannah's birth.

Dick

Friday 15th May 2020 07:44AM

David,

Just an update on my last post to you - as the spelling is different and the location is Abbeyleix, I'm doubtful of it being your relation as the connection with Roscrea hasn't been established. In case there's a connection, here's a few links that might be of use.

Hannah Muldowney Marriage https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10301/5749780.pdf

Will probate of Martin (Abbeyleix) http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014910/005014910_00429.pdf

Martin Marriage (Abbeyleix) https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000634368_047

Dick

Friday 15th May 2020 09:23AM

Thank you Dick. I do have my doubts about Hannah and this Martin Muldowney being my relatives. Making loose assumptions can create a crazy looking family tree. Family connections are crazy enough without randomly adding people.

David