Seeking information on John Flanagan and Catherine Connors

Liz:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

It appears that all the RC  parishes in Co. Offaly have marriage record pre-1844 on the subscription site Roots Ireland but like you I did not find the record. I extended the search to all of Ireland and there were no records. I scanned the parish register for Daingean for 1844-1845  https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0723  and did not see the record. There were not a large volume of records and some months did not have records. In 1844 there were no records in March (likely because of Lent) August and December. 

I did find a possible lead for John's baptismal record which is below. The earliest Catherine Connor baptismal record in Daingean was in 1831 too late for someone who likely married in 1844.

Roger McDonnell

Name:John FlanaganDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:21-Apr-1820Address:"n/r"Parish/District:DAINGEANGender:MaleCountyCo. Offaly
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:Denis FlanaganMother:Joan "n/r"Occupation:
 

One of my great-grandfathers was born in Daingean, so I have all of the pages from the parish register downloaded already, and I took a look to see whether I could find your Flanagan-Connor marriage a bit earlier, in 1843, because I was curious as to whether there was a connection to my family (I have distant Connor and Flanagan relatives, but the names are very common in the area).  In doing so I found something odd.  I continued into 1844 without realizing it at first, and on February 15th there is a strange entry, in a large space in between two other marriages about one-third of the way down the page.  For the other two marriages, the full info is given (and in one the bride was a Margaret Flanagan, interestingly), but in the middle of that large space it just says "Flanagan to Connor", with no other associated names, and to the left of that is a big circle with three X's or crosses in it.  Perhaps the priest realized that he had forgotten to note down all the info and marked it so that he could go back and fill it all in, but if so he apparently never did that (perhaps he had confused it wth the Margaret Flanagan marriage).  There's no guarantee that that was your Flanagan-Connor marriage, but it's quite a coincidence.  In case you want to check it out yourself, the page is image 211 in the Daingean/Philipstown marriage register covering 1820-1855, and I'll try uploading the image here when I complete this response.

Just FYI, Philipstown was founded in the 1500's as part of the "Marian Settlement", when Queen Mary I ("Bloody Mary") tried settling "loyal" Englishmen in what is now Offaly, which had been newly created by her as King's County, and Philipstown was named for Mary's husband, Philip II of Spain.  When the Irish Free State was created in 1922, Philipstown was renamed Daingean, and the county was renamed Offaly.  The full Irish form of the name Daingean is  An Daingean, meaning 'the fort', and it is also referred to as Daingean Ua bhFáilghe (Daingean Offaly), because there are other places in Ireland named Daingean.  The Catholic parish is still called Philipstown, since the Catholc parishes were largely set up back in the early 1800's, and do not always correspond in name or in their boundaries to the old civil parishes (the Catholic parish contains several of the old civil parishes, or parts of them).

Roger and Kevin

thank you very much for your replies.

Roger, I will follow up on John Flanagan baptism certificate . I agree if my great grandmother was born in 1845, it is highly unlikely that the 1831 Catherine is a match 

Kevin, thanks for you explanation re marriage register . I had seen it and wondered if the crosses related to them not being able to write- forgetting it was the priest doing the recording. The history of Phillipstown helps as well. I has trouble at first finding anything as I only had Clyduff to work with and a suggested birthdate of 1852 until a DNAmatch led me to a Catherine born in 1845 with the requisite parents and then the Clyduff info as address rather than town/ parish.

once again thank you for your replies

Liz 

Glad to be of help.  I was intrigued because the baptism of my great-grandfather's younger sister, Margaret (in July 1845), is on the parish register page facing the one where your Catherine Connors is shown (so it's in the same online image).

In case you're interested, you can find more info about Clyduff (in Irish, An Claí Dubh, which can mean the black wall/fence/dike or similar such structures) at this link:

https://www.townlands.ie/offaly/lower-philipstown/kilclonfert/kilclonfe…

As you can see from moving around on the map located there, Clyduff lies a bit to the northwest of the town of Daingean (my great-grandfather's family lived about the same distance to the east of the town).  That web site normally contains links to records from Griffith's Valuation and the 1901 and 1911 censuses for each townland, but there don't seem to be any (online there, anyway) for Clyduff or the immediately surrrounding townlands.  Not sure why, because they do exist for some of the other townlands in the parish.

BY the way, one thing which may have contributed to confusion in the past is that there is another townland in Offaly named Clyduff, although it's in the far south of the county, near the border with County Tipperary.  Something to watch out for if you see future records referring to Clyduff.

Kevin

Sorry for the late response.Thank you once again for the information. What you said about another Clyduff in the south near Tipperary was interesting . My great grandmother married  a Tipperary man but in Australia. They were both tailors by profession so I made the assumption they met through work in Australia.

Maybe I need to explore further. I have yet to locate her immigration details. Maybe wishful thinking as the Catherine born in 1845 is the only one I have found with those parents , and while older than I though when combined with DNA link looked to be correct.

regards

Liz

I've had my DNA tested, also, Liz, so if you'd like to we could compare notes.  My results are posted at the GEDMATCH site as kit number T780556, if you want to do a comparison.  I also have a cousin who has been tested who has the same Offaly ancestry, and his kit number at GEDMATCH is A078089.  If your results are not at GEDMATCH, you can easily upload them there, even if they were produced at another site (the "T" in my kit number shows that my results came from FTDNA, and the "A" in my cousin's kit number indicates that he did his testing at Ancestry).

If you go to the GEDMATCH site [https://www.gedmatch.com], you can see how to join for free and there are specific instructions as to how to transfer from other sites.  GEDMATCH allows you to find matches from sites other than the one at which you were tested.

Kevin

I have uploaded my DNA to Gedmatch ( kitJW5871184) - originally Ancestry. Until this week I either went with the default 7 or even higher until someone contacted me regarding a Scottish ancestor who didn't come up on my original gedmatch search

I did a comparison with both you and your cousin. I match with both of you  each across 4 ch ( not all the same 4 );but only with Cm of between 4-5. I don't know a lot about DNA but I think that means any connection is a long way back . So I need to get back beyond John Flanagan and Catherine Connor

There is a tree on Ancestry from John and Catherine down through a sibling of my Kate but unfortunately no ancestors - he probably met the same brick wall I did with lack of details around the marriage record. Maybe I should do a wider search on her other siblings .

once again thanks for your help

Liz

Yes, it took me a while also before I learned that one could lower the minimum segment length when comparing results at GEDMATCH.  I agree that our connection must be further back than the usual written records go.  I plan someday to search for the local estate records (the landlord's tenancy records), to see what more can be learned.  They can have really good info in some cases, but unfortunately they're scattered all over and generally not avaiilable online.  If I ever turn up anything further, I'll try to let you know.