Patrick J. Gray

MaryBeth:

See the first record on this link   https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…; Possibly this is for your Patrick? He was the oldest. Not born in May.

1901 census for family    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Queen_s_Co_/Tankardsto…

1911 census for family   http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Queen_s_Co_/Tankardsto…;    Julia had eight children

See last record on this page from 1876. Patrick born in May father was a publican in Mountmellick  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…;  This family had around eight children but Patrick was not the oldest.

Let me know what questions you have.

Roger McDonnell

Roger,

Thanks so much for your response! Unfortunately, the only link provided that would open was the 1901 census. That was promising as my mother referred to Patrick's sister as "Lizzie"!

The other links put up an error message as follows: "HTTP Status 404 - Not Found. The origin server did not find a current representation for the target resource or is not willing to disclose that one exists." Do you know if there is a way around that? 

I so appreciate your help.

MaryBeth

MaryBeth:

Can't explain the 404 error messages.

Another try on the 1911 census

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Queen_s_Co_/Tankardsto…

If you still get a 404 then go to http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/   and search for the family

The free Irish government site www.irishgenealogy.ie has civil birth, marriage and death records. Here is the info extracted from the two records.

February 18 1882 Patrick Gray father Thomas Gray mother Julia Keeffe place Ballinree

May 14 1876 Patrick Gray father Edward Gray mother Ellen Dowling in Mountmellick

Let me know.

Roger

Roger - I was able to open the 1911 census!  Thank you for resending it. I am going to do some digging and will be back! 

Thanks so much.

MaryBeth

Roger,

I just spoke with my mother and she corrected what is possibly a significant date. My great-grandparents were born in 1880, not in 1882.

MaryBeth

It looks llike Patrick's baptismal record gives his birth as 2 Feb. His birth registration gives a later date. The date on the baptism record would be the correct date. People sometimes lied about the child's birth date in order to avoid a fine for late registration.
The place your grandfather spoke of was Abbeyleix, in Co. Laois (formerly Queen's), which is not too far from the Grey home place of Ballylinan.

Here’s 1879 marriage for Thomas and Julia. They lived in Kilmoroney, which today is about a 5-minut drive from Ballylinan, where they lived later on.
Date of Marriage:21-Dec-1879
Parish / District:ATHY
C ounty:Co. Kildare
HusbandWife
Name:ThomasGrayJuliaKeffe
Address:KilmoroneyKilmoroney
Denomination:Roman CatholicRoman Catholic
Occupation:
Age:
Status:Bachelor (Previously unmarried)Spinster (Previously unmarried)
Husband's FatherWife's Father
Name:JamesGrayPierceKeffe
Address:
Denomination:
Occupation:
Husband's MotherWife's Mother
Name:
Address:
Denomination:
Occupation:
Witness 1Witness 2
Name:MichaelLangtonMaryDarbey
Address:
Notes:

Hi Patricia! And thank you! 

Is the information you found based on Patrick being born in 1880 or 1882? I am not sure if you saw my recent post correcting the year of birth.

Also, I noticed that you referred to the "Grey" home. The name as I know it is Gray. Is that a significant difference?

MaryBeth

MaryBeth:

The Patrick Gray with parents Thomas Gray and Julia Keefe was born in 1882. See my note above---    February 18 1882 Patrick Gray father Thomas Gray mother Julia Keeffe place Ballinree

Is this the correct Patrick Gray? 

There is a another Patrick Gray birth in 1880 (see fifth record)  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…;  The parents for this Patrick were Martin Gray and Mary Begellan  They lived in Ballycolla townland. There are two Ballycolla townlands one in Aghaboe parish and the other in Killernogh parish. Bith are close to Abbeyleix.

Is this the correct Patrick Gray.

Roger

Hi Mary Beth,
The spellings Grey and Gray refer to the same family. In Irish records, you might find the same family's name spelled different ways. I know a man named Riley who said he found the family name spelled fourteen ways.
As Roger wrote, The Patrick Gray with parents Thomas Gray and Julia Keefe was born in 1882. We've seen two records--baptism and birth--saying Patrick was born in 1882. If in later records he gave his birth year, or someone else gave his birth year, as 1880, that doesn't mean it's correct. Years ago, people were not as aware of birth dates as we are--they were not asked for driver's license, passport, social security card, etc. for ID. Birthdays in Ireland at the time were not a big deal at all; they may not have been marked or celebrated in any way. So age and birthdate were not on people's radar the way they are in the 21st century. It is very common to see wrong dates and ages in census records, on death certificates, headstones, etc. I hope this helps! Please email me at Glanvil3@aol.com if you have questions.

Patricia and Roger,

Thank you both so much! I apologize for my delay in responding. I had to take a break from researching to tend to some family matters. I hope you are both healthy and safe.

I believe that the correct Patrick Gray is the one born to Thomas and Julia, born on Feb. 2, 1882.  I would, however, like to take a look at Patrick Gray born in 1880 to Martin and Mary Begellan. There seems to be some discrepancy in the number of siblings that Patrick had. My mother seems to recall that he was the oldest of 11 children.

Roger - I cannot open that last link. Is there any other way to get a look at it?

Also, I cannot seem to find Patrick on any ship manifest. The census report of 1920 here in the States, says he emigrated in 1898. But his naturalization papers list him as a citizen of Great Britain. My mother seems to recall that he came here via England. I am not sure what this could mean. Is there any way on your end to find that information?

Thank you,

MaryBeth

Roger and Patricia,

One more thing - my (now deceased) uncle seemed to think that Patrick Gray, born February 1882 hailed from a place called Kingstown (Dun Laoghaire). Is that in the same area or totally different? Just wanted to make sure before moving forward from here.

So confusing!

Once again, thank you!

MaryBeth

Roger and Patricia,

One more thing - my (now deceased) uncle seemed to think that Patrick Gray, born February 1882 hailed from a place called Kingstown (Dun Laoghaire). Is that in the same area or totally different? Just wanted to make sure before moving forward from here.

So confusing!

Once again, thank you!

MaryBeth

Mary Beth:

In 1898, all Irish were citizens of Great Britian.

Dun Laoghaire is well over an hours drive from Abbeyleix.

One more try on the 1880 birth record  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…;  If the link does not work, go to www.irishgenealogy.ie  Civil Records TAB enter Patrick Gray birth--1880-1880 in the search bar-- you will get two records-look at the record in Abbeyleix--fifith entry down

I don't think we can locate ship data leaving Ireland. It is likely the ship originated in England and stopped in Ireland.

Roger

This Patrick emigrated in 1898. His residence was Maryborough (Portlaoise) in Queens Co. (Co. Laois).
Name:Patrick Gray
Arrival Date:28 May 1898
Birth Date:abt 1872
Age:26
Gender:Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality:Irish
Port of Departure:Queenstown, Ireland
Port of Arrival:New York, New York, USA
Ship Name:Lucania

Roger and Patricia,

Again, thank you!

I have concluded that the Patrick Gray I am looking for is the one born in Feb, 1882 to Thomas and Julia Gray (Keefffe). The 1911 census records that the couple had eight children. Patrick was the eldest. The names correspond with my mother's recollection. In the 1911 census, next to Thomas' name, it sets out that seven children were living in 1911. Next to Julia's entry is sets out that eight were living. A bit confusing. I have tracked down, on irishgeneology.ie, the birth records of seven of the eight children. All but Michael, who is listed as being 17 yrs. old on the 1901 census. Interestingly, their son, James was not on the 1901 census and he actually would have been 17 in 1901. James is listed again on the 1911 census, Michael is not. I am thinking perhaps they accidentally switched the names? I did find a death record for a Michael Gray in Athy in 1895. He was one year old at the time of death. The death record however does not have any information regarding parentage or cause of death so I am unsure if this is the correct person. I am wondering if there is any other way to get that?

This is so exciting! I cannot tell you how much I am enjoying this type of research! I appreciate your help and will be in touch again.

Oh! And I did find the manifest for my great-grandparent's emigration to America! Patrick Gray arrived on Aug 28, 1899 in New York City on a ship called the Ethiopia. He was 17 years old and left from Londonderry. My great-grandmother, Mary Ann Hopkins, arrived in New York as a passenger on the Teutonic on April 15, 1897. She hailed from Ballaghdereen and was 17 at the time of her crossing as well. She came over as a servant and became a cook for a family in Elizabeth, New Jersey. Patrick was a gardener. They met and married in 1906. Love this!