Isaac Neville & Sarah Coghlan

The Catholic baptism records for the parish of Lynally / Rahan and Lynally cover back to 1810, which is very early for rural Catholic records - the average is about 1830. Of the adjacent parishes I think Tullamore is the only one with earlier baptisms, going back to 1801.

A search on FindMyPast shows of these shows a number of Nevillle/Nevil baptisms in the parish but earliest I see is an Ann Neville in 1837. 

If you sign up for a free account on FindMyast you can search any of the Catholic Register transcripts without charge. It's also worth browsing the register images on the NLI website - sometimes you ca spot extra records or details on faded or difficult to read pages.

Have you already confirm baptism records for any of the people you mentioned ?

A small point on the Dublin marriage, construction of the Catholic church for St. Andrew's Parish on Westland row started in 1832, the first mass was in about 1834, so the Neville/Coghlan marriage would have taken place at the previous chapel for the parish on Townsend Street.



 

Hi Mary Beth, 

I live in Tullamore and know Lynally very well also the Nevilles, As You may know the Nevilles were Quakers who came from Mountmellick which was known as a 'Quaker Town' the town was usually well off with lots of industries.

I know Greg, I think you met him while you were here in 2019, There is a lot of Neville history researched  by your Nebraska Nevilles available on https/twigsontrees.wordpress.com/tag/neville/  This is posted by a Robert Emmett McTygue. Do you know about this.

Greg is happy for you to email him.

Quaker history would be available  at Friends History Library, email them at office@quakers.ie They would certainly help with Issac as they have a ancestory /genealogy appartment. 00353-1-4998003

Also are you sure that Issac married at Westland Row as this St Andrews was a RC Church, and not built at the time, there atr other St Andrews ie Presbyterian Church which is more likely where they would have married.

Sarah Coghlan was born in 1801 her fathers name Jacobi also Quaker.

The Nevilles live and farm the same land that the Mountmellick Nevilles leased.in Lynally Glebe.

Hope some of this helps

Liz

Hi Liz,

Thank you so much for your reply!!!!!! 

I am familiar with the "Twigs on the Tree" info and have been in touch with Barbara Scanlon who owns a tree on ancestry.com with this same Neville family.  I believe my Isaac was one of the brothers but unfortunately I cannot find a single record or document to prove this.  Barbara is in Abraham Neville's line.  Abraham and another brother Elijah were also in Albany, NY where my Isaac settled.  I have a DNA match to someone in Abraham's line, and other DNA matches in both Jeremiah and Elijah lines.  Barbara's tree has all of them as brothers but again, there is no documentation that proves this.  I just need to locate a Baptism record or a church record, some proof.

I contacted Mountmellick when we came back from Ireland in 2019 and they emailed me all the Quaker Neville records.  Unfortunately there was no Isaac.  I will try them again.  If Isaac was born following the Neville's 1798-99 move to Lynally his birth/baptism record would not be in Mountmellick.  The 1802 church record that Barbara Scanlon found noting William Neville with children Jane, Joseph, Abraham and William may have been before Isaac was born.  Interestingly, immediately following the Neville church record there is an entry for Bagnall, Abraham with a child Isaac and I've been wondering for years if maybe that was a mistake and Isaac was part of the Neville family versus Bagnall's.

It was Greg that we met while were in Ireland - what a thrill that was for me!  I did email him when we got home but didn't hear back so I didn't pursue, as I didn't want to be a pest.  I will try again!  Father Martin from the parish took us to Matt Mooney's home and we also met with him.  For me, even though Father Martin was unable to locate a record for Isaac, just being there knowing I was on the same ground that my ancestors walked, was a thrill.  We were there for two weeks and the day in Mucklagh was my best day!  I had also started a tree with Greg's family members hoping it'd lead me back to my Isaac, but again - no luck!

Can you tell me about Sarah Coghlan?  How do you know she was also a Quaker?  Did you locate a record that you could share?  I was thrilled to learn her father's name was Jacobi.  The monument where Isaac and Sarah are buried is inscribed with their dates of death (i.e., Isaac Neville, died March 7, 1860, aged 49) so I was assuming born about 1811 and Sarah Coghlan Neville, died November 13, 1891, aged 80 so assuming she was born about 1811).   I will also inquire with Mountmellick about the Coghlan's and widen my search back 10 years based on your birth date for Sarah.  I found the marriage record from Dublin after I had already found records in the U.S. that proved Coghlan was Sarah's maiden name so I assumed since the date was correct, that the record I found in Dublin at St. Andrew's Westland Row was them.  I didn't think Isaac was all that common a name.  We also made a point to visit the church while we were there...I did read the history about the original church being in another location.  Would you have any ideas which Presbyterian churches I should start contacting to see if I can locate a marriage record?

I can't express my appreciation enough for your reply.  Apologize for the length of this...please let me know if there is any info you may have on Sarah or any other ideas for where I might search for records.

Thank you -

Mary Beth

Hi Mary Beth

I am finding it difficult to find any Nevills but will keep plugging. I have access to about 4 sites .

Why do you think Issac born to Bagnal/Nevill is not your Isaac, what year was it?

Sarah Caughlan's birth and marriage is on the Irish Genealogy site and gives her father's name Jacobi and mother's as Maria, birth 1801

This Church is RC St Andrews which indicates Sarah was catholic but her fathers name is  definately Quaker

I see on the web that St Andrews has a lot of records on microfilm from the 1700s at the National Library [nli.ie] maybe you could email them.or when I next go there I will look.

This is confusing as it says the church was build in 1832 but how come the records date long before, I will call the church during the week to see if there is any history available

all of this does not find Isaac, but let me know what Bagnalls name was and year.

Liz

Hi Liz,

I am so very appreciative of the time you've spent helping me.  Thank you doesn't seem to quite convey how grateful I am for your time!

We visited St. Andrew's Westland Row in 2019.  History as follows...foundation stone was laid 4-30-1832.  It was blessed and opened in 1834 and completed in 1843.  The church was previously on Townsend Street (1750 to 1834) and moved to Westland Row after the Catholic Emancipation Bill of 1829.  Baptisms are available for this parish as far back as 1742!  I took pictures of all the history while we were there and we drove to Townsend Street but the original church is no longer there.  The original on Townsend Street would have been where Isaac and Sarah were married, if this is actually my Isaac and Sarah.  The marriage record notes Patricio Coghlan and Winifreda Gilligan as witnesses.

I was able to locate the baptism record for Sarah on Irish Geneology that you referenced - thank you!  I'm just not sure what to think now...maybe Sarah was Catholic and Isaac was Quaker?  You seemed so certain that Coghlan's were also Quaker so now I'm wondering if these St. Andrew records are not my Isaac and Sarah. 

I also sent an email to the Mountmellick geneology office (thank you for the email) and requested the Coghlan records.  I'll wait and see if there is a Baptism for a Sarah Coghlan with father Jacobi. 

I found the Neville, Bagnall record on ancestry.com.  It reads exactly as follows:  Parish of Lynally, August 1802.  Charleville.  Bagnell, Abraham, wife, sons Robert, Isaac.  Nevils, William, wife, children Jane, Joseph, Abraham, William

The Neville, Bagnall church record has all the family names listed like above for Bagnall & Neville.  There are many other families noted, too.  Wishful thinking on my part to thik that Isaac Bagnall really belonged to the Neville family!  I have so many DNA matches to these folks whose family trees go back to Lynally (Abraham, Jeremiah, Elijah, etc.).  BUt without birth or baptism records to be certain I can never be sure that Isaac is one of their brothers.  So many folks have them all linked together but I cannot locate a single scrap of evidence that would make it true.  The verbal history was that two Bagnall sisters (Elizabeth and Mary) married a Neville.  Elizabeth is buried in Mucklagh with some of the sons but no maiden name on monument. 

If you can think of anything I should be doing to search, please don't hesitate to let me know. 

 

hi Mary Beth, Well I have not done very well trying to find Isaac, I have not even found the Neville/ Bagnall marriage When I said Sarah was a Quaker, her father was but he must have married away from his religion hence why Sarah was married in Cathlic Church Quakers were banished from their church if they married outside of it. I am sorry I cant find Isaac but maybe we will keep digging Why also do you think he is not the one you found? Liz

Hi Beth As an outside observer I wish to state that Neville is a common West Limerick name between Rathkeale and Pallaskenry, Co. Limerick. As regards being stone cutters the Bury family lived in Shannon View House outside Pallaskenry for at least 100 years before going to Charleville Estate outside Tullamore---so perhaps you should try Tullamore for the Neville's. George Quain.

Any more info on your search Mary Beth

Hi Liz, Happy New Year! I have been working all the hints and tips I've gotten from you and others. So far, nothing. I wrote to the Quaker office and received a reply from the Quaker Historical Library. They feel the Roman Catholic marriage record from St. Andrews's is surely Isaac and Sarah's marriage record and commented that both are quite unusual names. They also said if Isaac Neville is not on the findmypast.ie website, I can be fairly certain that he was not one of the Quaker Nevilles, as the Quaker records are excellent. I have all the Quaker Mountmellick records and Isaac is not there (nor are any of the others (Abraham, Jacob, Jeremiah, etc.). Although, again if Isaac was born following the move from Mountmellick to Tullamore, he would not have been in the Quaker records. I contacted St. Andrew's. Heard back yesterday. They cannot tie the baptism record for Sarah Coghlan to the marriage record for Sarah and Isaac. I also am working through the Coghlan Quaker records now. I found a couple of records on Find My Past. First, a marriage record for Isaac Nevil to Catherine Sullivan of Broad Lane dated 8/10/1798 in the Cork & Ross diocese. Witnesses were William Stanton and Catherine Hogan. Second, a baptism record for Mary Nevil, baptised 4/26/1795, residence Broad Lane, Parish St. Peter & Paul's, Cork City, Diocese Cork & Ross. Father was Isaac Nevil and mother Catherine Sullivan. I can't locate any record of a son Isaac but can't help wondering if this could be something. I'm going to see if I can find any trees on ancestry.com with this couple. I'd also like to contact Tullamore to see if I can locate Isaac's birth record in that area....would you have any suggestions as to who to contact? Hope you are well....

Hi Mary Beth I cannot locate Isaac apart from his marriage in 1831. There are no records from that time of his birth ie circa 1800 I have checked with the Church of Ireland records, the start from 1805 and his name is not there Was his mother Elizabeth or Mary Bagnal or Bagnall Mary was the mother of Abraham born in 1799 (Canada) Elizabeth Bagnal married Abraham in 1788 I came across a Mary Bagnal 1750s who leased land from the Charville Estate, her 2 girls married 2 Nevilles, which would follow as the Nevilles were Stone masons working at Charville Castle I really dont know where you go from there. It would have been nice to find a record If I come up with any suggestions I will post it Liz

My great-great grandfather was Isaac Bagnall/Bagnell.  He was born in the late1700s, possibly in Lynally.  His father may have been Abraham.  He had at least two siblings, Robert and Abraham, both of whom moved to Rawdon, Quebec in the early 1800s.

Isaac first married Mary Ann Pigott, who died young. They had two surviving daughters, Mary Jane and Harriet. Isaac's second wife was Dinah Pattison Odlum.   They had a son, Isaac, and possibley more children.  Dinah had children by her first marriage.  The families lived in the Geashill/Tullamore area of County Offaly.  It is believed that they had Quaker affiliations.

My family history, which may not be totally accurate, states that Isaac's first wife, Mary Ann Pigott, was the daughter of a "Miss Neville" and a "Lord Pigott."  This may have been Elizabeth Neville and one of the John Pigotts, although it is questionable  that he was a "Lord."  They also apparently lived County Offaly.

If anyone can provide me with more information on these families, I would greatly appreciate it  Thank you.

Hi MaryBeth

It is nice to know you have gone back further in your family tree

Mary Ann Pigott was born in 1790 to Elizabeth Neville( 1750} and John Pigott (1740{ in Rosenallis Queens County (Laoise}

Spouse Isaac Bagnell , children,Harriet,1813 MaryJane,1814 Hannah.1817. She died in1818

Parents of john (1740} Colclough Pigott 1707-1779. Ann Riggs 1719-1779.

Isaac remarried, Dinah P (1791-1867}

Mary Ann Pigott has been found in 52 Trees in Ancestry you can find this under her name in Ancestry, it says browse more like this

Isaac Bagnall is in the Tithe records in 1824 in Annagharvey, Geashill Co Offaly

Their farm and ancestors are still in Geashill.

lots of Bagnalls around Geashill, One would  assume they are  decendent from the same source.

So which family  are you interested in?

There was a Lord Pigott who worked with the East indian Company in early 1770s, lived in England

he died around 1775 so dates dont add up

Liz