Looking for O'Neill's

Dear  Dillpickle66

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out and apologies for the delay in getting back to you!

Have you searched the Census 1901/1911 for John?

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/

Best wishes

Clare Doyle

Genealogy Support 

I have checked the 1911 Census and found 252 John O'Neill's.  Some of those John's are listed as either boarders or servants, some are married with a young family, but all are distinct possibilities because of the age factor.   It would cost a small fortune to order birth records for all the possibilities, so how do I find out if one of those  John O'Neill's is the son of Peter Daniel O'Neill and Mary Alexander? 

Hi again

As familysearch.org is free you could use that to narrow down the instances of potentially relevant names.

Best wishes

Clare 

Genealogy Support 

Happy researching! Let us know if you find anything new

Best wishes

Clare

Genealogy Support

Well, its been awhile since I posted on these message boards and a lot of information has come my way.  Very different than what I originally thought.

In January of this year I finally found the marriage record of my great grandparents, Peter O'Neill and Mary Alexander.  Not in Ireland as I thought, but in England.  They were married in St. George's Catholic Church on 25 Dec 1879 in Southwark, London, England.  Peter was  listed as Neil on his marriage record, so that threw me off the trail until somone recently suggested I search without using the 'O'.  If I would have thought of that sooner I would have saved myself a lot of frustration.  Their father's were listed on the marriage record as John Neil and William Alexander (deceased).  Peter and Mary's first-born son John was also baptized at the same church, so I now have his birthdate.  I then checked the 1881 England/Wales census.  Peter, Mary and John were listed as O'Neill.  On this census it gave Peter's place of birth as Ireland, but Mary's was London, England.  Again different information from what I had.  When I checked the 1891 E/W census Mary was listed as Mary Neal, widowed with 4 sons.  John 11,  Peter 6,  Joseph 4, Patrick 2.. The birthplace for all 4 boys was given as London, England.   My father had always claimed his father Peter was born in Kings Co. Ireland, (in fact that's what was on his WWI attestation papers), but now it looks like it was his grandfather Peter that was the one born there instead.  I'm in the process now of ordering birth records from the GRO in England.  I also found a death record for Peter O'Neill in 1890 so that kind of fits this situation, so I'll be ordering it too. So now I know Peter was born in Ireland and probably his father John was too, but I have no idea how I'm going to find the right birth/baptism record for Peter without his mothers name, or a marriage record for his father John.  I think there are more John's in Ireland than Peter's.   Then Peter and Mary's son John, the oldest of the 4 boys was in Ireland in 1926 when his youngest brother died in Canada.  I have no idea whether he got married in England and then went to Ireland or whether he went to Ireland first, then got married there.

The mystery continues.........It would be wonderful if my information rang a bell for any of John's descendants in Ireland.  

Thanks for the update - hope some descendants searching the name will be in touch with you soon. I'm delighted you have made progress.

Best wishes

Clare

Genealogy Support 

Update Jul 2016

I searched FamilySearch.org and found a death registration for Peter Neil so I ordered a copy.  He died 24 Feb 1890 in St. Olave Southwark, London, England.  The widow, Mary Neil, resided at 1 Woolf St. Bermondsey, London, England

 In the 1901 England census I found Joseph Oneill listed as an inmate at St Joseph and St Anne Orphanage, Farnborough, sub-registration district Orpington, Kent, England.  He was born at St Saviour, London, England abt 1888. I also found a Patrick Oneill born in London, England abt 1889 in the same orphanage.

Given the early death of their father in 1890, I assume, but have not proven the  four boys were put into St. Joseph and St. Anne Orphanage.  By the 1901 Census John and Peter  would have both been over 16 and had already left the orphanage.

Peter married in 1909 in Ottawa, Ontario and raised a family of 7 children.  Joseph and Patrick eventually ended up  living in the South Porcupine area of Ontario and were miners.  A few years ago I found an obituary for Paddy in a 1926  South Porcupine, ON newspaper.  He was married with a 1 yr old daughter, Mary.  Besides Peter and Joseph the obit also included the name of another surviving brother, John in Ireland, so at some point John left England and moved to Ireland.  I found a John O'Neill in the British Army WW1 Service Records.  He was in the Royal Irish Regiment, born abt 1879, married in Chapelizod Dublin on 5 Feb 1910, his residence was 15 Coombe St. Dublin and had two sons, John & Patrick.  Don't know if this is the fourth brother, but  dates & names seem right.

With all the information I had, including the many variants of the name O'Neill I sent for the birth record of Peter (my grandfather) and when it arrived he was listed as Peter Neal, but the parents were the right ones, Peter & Mary Neal, formerly Alexander.  He was actually born on 2 Sept 1884 in London, England, not the 8 Sept 1886 in Ireland, as  I believed. 

 Next I ordered the birth record of  Joseph.  I received it on June 30, 2016.  He was listed as Joseph Niel , but the parents were again the right ones, Peter Niel and Mary Ann, formerly Alexander.  Joseph was born on 14 Jan 1887,  not 9 Feb 1886, as was on his military record.

On July 02, 2016 I ordered the birth record of Patrick.  It has not yet arrived.

On July 08, 2016  I ordered the birth record of John.  It also has not yet arrived, but from the 1881 census I know John was born abt. 1879/1880.  

I've made a lot of headway this year, but there is still more to discover, such as finding John O'Neill's descendants in Ireland.  

Thanks for this update - let us know when you receive the other records, I would be interested to know how far out the dates are in comparison to what you think or have found in other records. 

All the best

Clare

Genealogy Support 

My previous birth information for John:  John Neil, born 27 December 1879, son of Peter Neil and Mary, formerly Alexander.

Yesterday I received his birth record  from the GRO in England.  The information on it was John Neale, born 17 January 1880, son of Peter Neale and Mary Neale, formerly Alexander..  

Three boys, three different variants of O'Neill.  On the parents marriage record it was spelled Neil. On the 1881 E/W census it was spelled O'Neil. It will be interesting to see how  Patrick's name is spelled when his birth record arrives.

Its Aug. 5 and Patrick's birth record arrived yesterday.  His name was spelled Neil.  His d.o.b. was 26 March 1889, not 25 March 1892  that was on his death record, so he was 37 when he died instead of 34.  Still way too young. Now that I have the birth record for all 4 brothers plus the death record for their father Peter in 1890 I guess the next step will be to investigate the fact that on the 1901 E/W census both Joseph O'Neill and Patrick O'Neill were listed as inmates in St. Joseph and St. Anne Orphanage in Farnborough, Co. Kent, England. What happened that they ended up there?  Did their mother die or could she not take care of 4 boys after the death of her husband?  Where were Peter and John in 1901?  I haven't found them yet. John would have been 21 and Peter 17 in September, both too old to still be in an orphanage.  Is this when John went to Ireland and Peter to Canada?  Hopefully, I can find out.

You should check Irishgenealogy.ie records have now been released of the civil records of Births, Deaths and Marriages.  You might find something on there.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie

 Its a very interesting story.  I hope you have great success 

I wanted to invite you to add your ancestor's details to our XO Chronicles. You can learn more about it HERE and it might be another avenue to consider so that your ancestor's details can be seen by others. 

Best wishes

Clare Doyle

Genealogy Support 

Hello:

The Chronicles works by your creating a profile.  If you click onto the XO Chronicles tab at the top of the page, you will see a new screen for the Chronicles. 

There are three themes:  People (Ancestor) Building and Timeline(Event). 

You will probably want to use the People theme.  You will see a Discover & Create orange button.  Click on that button and you will be directed to a list of People who have been added.

You can then create your own profile.  The only rules for People are that they are over 100 years old and no longer living.  It doesn't matter how much/how little information you have.  The Chronicles are read widely and very often, there are others out there searching for the same family.

If you have any difficulties, please get back to me at:  jhalloranryan@irelandxo.com.  I will be happy to help.

By the way, you have done really terrific research to get as far as you have with your O'Neills!

Kind regards,

Jane.

Update Jul 23, 2017

Last Sep or Oct I emailed the Diagrama Foundation in England about accessing the case records of my grandfather and his three brothers. This foundation now holds the records  for the St. Joseph and St. Anne Orphanage in England.   I won't say too much, but after waiting almost 9 mon. the information  I received was  so very disappointing.   The records did show that the two youngest were in the care of the Southwark Local Authority and it was suggested  I contact the Practice Manager for Adoption Support which I did yesterday.  Now the waiting begins again to see if  she will give me any information  about my grandfather and his brothers.

Throughout those months of waiting on the Diagrama Foundation I one day got the idea to search for the Baptism record of my great grandfather Peter O'Neill who was born in Ireland, according to his marriage record and the 1881 E/W census.  Into the search engine of findmypast.co.uk I  put the name Peter O'Neill, born between 1850 and 1860 Ireland with a father named John and got 16 hits.  Only one had a father named John O'Neill.  The mother was Bridget Quinn.  This Peter was baptized in Apr 1860 in Clonallon, Dromore, Co. Down.  Two others didn't have parents listed so I looked at the original transcript and although it was hard to read neither name looked like it was John.  The  balance of the 16 all had different fathers than John.  This is becoming more and more confusing.   I feel this Peter O'Neill must be my ggrandfather, but have no idea how to prove if this is actually true.  If it is true then where did the King's Co. come from that my grandfather listed as his place of birth on his WW1 military records?  

Hello Dill. You need to bear in mind that keeping of registers in Ireland didn't all start at the same time in each parish. Not all which once existed survived. Some surviving ones may not yet have been transcribed. Some parts of those which have been transcribed may be difficult or even impossible to read. Transcriptions of names may be inaccurate, through no fault of the transcriber. Marriage and baptism registers cover different years  in some parishes .

I found the baptism entry for my grandfather in1850s Mayo. None of his elder siblings appeared. Then I learned that there was a gap of several years between the end of one register and start of the next surviving volume. I guess the elder children were all born during the missing years. I searched fruitlessly for baptism of the youngest sister. When I saw an image of later register pages I understood why I couldn't find her name. I was going to say "it became clear" but "clear" was the exact opposite of what I saw. Some pages were singed as if the book had been rescued from a fire, or a lighted candle had fallen on it. Writing on some pages was almost obliterated.  A register in another parish for grandmother's family was fine in parts but at one stage it seemed to me that the priet's eyesight was failing, or he'd had a stroke or some other disability affected his writing. Then a new incumbent filled the subsequent pages in neat handwriting in the correct columns.

Have you checked a list of surviving parish registers for the county? It also has locations of copies and indicates which have been transcribed and indexed.

As regards your ancestors in the orphanage, do you know that  adoption was informal in England until 1920s? 

Hello Dillpickle66

I was just wondering if you would consider doing a DNA test and upload your results to www.Gedmatch.com.  It might be worth a go.  There are some good offers at moment for DNA as low as 59euro and the prices rise to 129euro.

Geraldine